My First SBE

[wrldpro]

He wasn't being petty, he was being honest. If more people were honest instead of always being "politically correct" the world would be a better place. He simply relayed his experience, nothing wrong with that.

If anyone was being petty or overly dramatic, it is Bobby. He spent 3 paragraphs explaining numerous reasons why his play might have been perceived as slow. The fact of the matter is, slow play is excruciating for those watching or waiting. The only people that seem to not have a problem with slow play are the slow players themselves. For the rest of us, they're party poopers that make us want to poke our eyes out.

I've had different experiences at the SBE over the yrs, some good, some bad. When time, funds, and work allows, I go. When things won't allow it, I don't go. I can take it or leave it but I do enjoy it and would choose to go than not go if I have an option.

Hey urakmicrakm and lou you guys need to relax about me taking a long time.As i remember unless im wrong i did run over 100 and the only other person that did that was schmidt.I do have a great idea if either or both of you want to keep talking it up to resolve the issues.I will play with a shot clock if either of you want to play against me for a large amount of money and all of us can be on the clock and I will travel and play anywhere.

The guys running the event didnt say anything to me while i was running the racks and it was their decision to do so and not railbirds decisions.Please let me know if you want to play and send it through on a private message and we can work out the details.If you are to scared then just pick someone out from your state and we can match up then.

have a nice day.

 

[MahnaMahna]

Hey urakmicrakm and lou you guys need to relax about me taking a long time.As i remember unless im wrong i did run over 100 and the only other person that did that was schmidt.I do have a great idea if either or both of you want to keep talking it up to resolve the issues.I will play with a shot clock if either of you want to play against me for a large amount of money and all of us can be on the clock and I will travel and play anywhere.

The guys running the event didnt say anything to me while i was running the racks and it was their decision to do so and not railbirds decisions.Please let me know if you want to play and send it through on a private message and we can work out the details.If you are to scared then just pick someone out from your state and we can match up then.

have a nice day.

Apparently your solution to dealing with anyone who challenges you or your style of play is to gamble with them or whoever they want to put in the box.

I am sure you are a great player and would give anyone a good run for their $$$ at 14.1 or any game.

BUT, you were performing at an event that is made possible by the spectators. You were in an event that is designed to please the people watching. They want to see high runs.

So if someone says you played too slow, or too fast, or too loose, or too tight, or whatever, keep in mind where you are and what you are doing. If you really don't give a sh*t, stop playing in public events and tournaments and keep gambling in the back room. I am more interested in seeing someone perform at any other level, keeping the good of the game and the sport in mind and hoping to bring in more viewers, not piss off the ones already watching.

John Schmidt is someone everyone (except Danny Harriman) seems to want to watch play. Even Johnny Archer, who has been accused of playing slow a few times (lol), still manages to keep the crowd and viewers most of the time. Your attitude makes someone such as myself want to avoid anything you are involved in, and that is not good for any of the vendors, sponsors, or other players at the SBE.

 

[wrldpro]

Apparently your solution to dealing with anyone who challenges you or your style of play is to gamble with them or whoever they want to put in the box.

I am sure you are a great player and would give anyone a good run for their $$$ at 14.1 or any game.

BUT, you were performing at an event that is made possible by the spectators. You were in an event that is designed to please the people watching. They want to see high runs.

So if someone says you played too slow, or too fast, or too loose, or too tight, or whatever, keep in mind where you are and what you are doing. If you really don't give a sh*t, stop playing in public events and tournaments and keep gambling in the back room. I am more interested in seeing someone perform at any other level, keeping the good of the game and the sport in mind and hoping to bring in more viewers, not piss off the ones already watching.

John Schmidt is someone everyone (except Danny Harriman) seems to want to watch play. Even Johnny Archer, who has been accused of playing slow a few times (lol), still manages to keep the crowd and viewers most of the time. Your attitude makes someone such as myself want to avoid anything you are involved in, and that is not good for any of the vendors, sponsors, or other players at the SBE.

ok I see your point,however were you even there or know the situation probably not.This event was out on the main floor of and expo which people walked right up to players while they were in mid stroke all the time.Also the players had to pay to play for each turn of the qualifiers and the spectators just payed for a pass to enter into the area to see exhibitors.as for playing for money I really dont gamble because unlike alot of players I dont need the money as this was a simple answer to resolve the issue because lou is a pro and he sort of called me out.No hard feeling to any of the players or railbirds on azbilliards as i do have 7 sponsors and respect all of them so I am done writing to everyones railbird comments unless it is necessary.So please if you or anyone else wants to take stabs at me just hit the pm button and send me one directly.If you have to post then you are certainly a nit.

 

[lfigueroa]

You just lost a few potential customers with that post. It indicates that what was important was that it was charlie williams, not match scheduling. You can't really say that about charlie and then say "equally important customers" and expect anyone to believe you mean it.

Hu

Yeah, that was pretty much the flavor of it and why I decided I'd rather go have a brew than continue to wait -- it was very much an, "oooow, it's *Charlie Williams*" kinda thing, more than anything else. Oh well. Their event, their rules, my beer

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Hey urakmicrakm and lou you guys need to relax about me taking a long time.As i remember unless im wrong i did run over 100 and the only other person that did that was schmidt.I do have a great idea if either or both of you want to keep talking it up to resolve the issues.I will play with a shot clock if either of you want to play against me for a large amount of money and all of us can be on the clock and I will travel and play anywhere.

The guys running the event didnt say anything to me while i was running the racks and it was their decision to do so and not railbirds decisions.Please let me know if you want to play and send it through on a private message and we can work out the details.If you are to scared then just pick someone out from your state and we can match up then.

have a nice day.

You're right -- no one in control said anything. And that, as far as I'm concerned, was the problem

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

ok I see your point,however were you even there or know the situation probably not.This event was out on the main floor of and expo which people walked right up to players while they were in mid stroke all the time.Also the players had to pay to play for each turn of the qualifiers and the spectators just payed for a pass to enter into the area to see exhibitors.as for playing for money I really dont gamble because unlike alot of players I dont need the money as this was a simple answer to resolve the issue because lou is a pro and he sort of called me out.No hard feeling to any of the players or railbirds on azbilliards as i do have 7 sponsors and respect all of them so I am done writing to everyones railbird comments unless it is necessary.So please if you or anyone else wants to take stabs at me just hit the pm button and send me one directly.If you have to post then you are certainly a nit.

Just for the record, you are totally mischaracterizing what happened. You were wandering over to people to chit-chat, at length, and generally playing slow. All the players competing had to deal with distractions, people walking by, talking, and the 3C Poke-A-Mole exhibition. Yet you seemed to be the only one dawdling, oblivious to the fact that there were only two tables to compete on and that you might be slowing the whole show to a crawl.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Murray Tucker]

Too bad our paths did not cross. It would have been nice to meet you in person.

 

[ForumGhost516]

You just lost a few potential customers with that post. It indicates that what was important was that it was charlie williams, not match scheduling. You can't really say that about charlie and then say "equally important customers" and expect anyone to believe you mean it.

Hu

Oh really thats funny because no one had a problem with it when it was three league players that we did it for also ages 15, 18, and 31 who no one ever heard of either but just wanted to play the game but had TAP or whatever else. One of the caveats we had put in to the original postings was that we were going to make allowances for people with matches and so far Lou you are really the only person who seemed to have a big enough problem to write about it.

Believe me we understand that the scheduling was not done great this year and as a first year freshman effort we learned alot match scheduling being one of them.

 

[ForumGhost516]

You're right -- no one in control said anything. And that, as far as I'm concerned, was the problem

Lou Figueroa

Excuse me at one point when Bobby was talking to a player I personally said something. I will not lie Bobby's play was slow but there was only one situation where I as tournament director felt it was necessary to correct it. From the beginning of the event Bobby was an incredible player and a gentleman both on and off the table. He bought in the most amount of times of any player and when we were slow was one of the people who kept the event going.


Again Lou Im sorry if you were upset you were a gentleman and handled yourself as such even with these feelings. We hated to keep anyone waiting and again Im sorry. If you come next year if I had previously stated we will gladly put you into the challenge on my dime. Next year also we are hoping for more tables so that should alleviate some problems with the wait.

Charlie

 

[lfigueroa]

Too bad our paths did not cross. It would have been nice to meet you in person.

ummm... I'm guessing you're talking to me and not Bobby (just kidding, Bobby

Hey, Murray, same here -- it would have been great to say "Hi" in person.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

...I will not lie Bobby's play was slow...
Charlie

Good enough for me

Lou Figueroa

 

[ForumGhost516]

Deleted ............. Im done, you cant please everyone all the time simple as that. For a freshman effort the event was a massive success I agree that the wait list sucks and I apologize to anyone who got bumped for ANY player and I do mean ANY not just Charlie Williams. Next year we are slated to have around 5 to 6 tables which should do away with that problem quite nicely.

As for Bobby if you want to go up and disrespect a man for playing a little slower under some rough conditions who just donated well over 200 dollars to qualify and help support the event even after he was qualified then be my guest but it will be you and not me.

As i said there was only one situation where I felt it needed to be corrected and I did so without hesitation and without question play resumed. Bobby has quite a few friends and fans and it can get rough when people are just waking up to you mid run to chit chat. I saw it happen to Tony Robles.


Again Lou I am very sorry you had a bad time with us. If you come next year as I said Steve Heather and Myself will personally buy you in to the challenge plus at least a beer !!!

Have a great day guys.

Shoot Well
Charlie

 

[JamisonNeu]

Calm down! The event was the nuts, everyone knows that....

You can't get mad at someone because they take their time on some shots. If a guy is doing it on every single shot then it may be BS.

 

[ShootingArts]

not what you did but your explanation

Oh really thats funny because no one had a problem with it when it was three league players that we did it for also ages 15, 18, and 31 who no one ever heard of either but just wanted to play the game but had TAP or whatever else. One of the caveats we had put in to the original postings was that we were going to make allowances for people with matches and so far Lou you are really the only person who seemed to have a big enough problem to write about it.

Believe me we understand that the scheduling was not done great this year and as a first year freshman effort we learned alot match scheduling being one of them.

Had it been only for match considerations I wouldn't have said a thing. You said that was the deal upfront when you started the event. Your own post saying that you had to consider the impact that pleasing or not pleasing charlie in particular had when deciding to let him continue play was what made my decision for me and I'm sure I'm not alone. Many people wouldn't piss on charlie if he was on fire. To learn that we would be considered second class citizens to him were we to participate in anything you were involved in as a TD or promoter insures that some customers will be lost. Some who believe in fair play will be lost regardless of who it is you elevate to special status. Tough enough competing with the top players without having to give them a spot which is what all of the peons that don't receive special treatment are effectively doing.

I'm sure you can afford the loss of a few people that think that everyone should be treated equally but that is just the way I roll. I have competed alongside people that were so far above charlie in their own sport that they make him look like a pygmy(with apologies to pygmies!) and always been treated as an equal because we were indeed equals, at least at the moment. We all put our money up and we were all entitled to equal consideration.

At the very least you should be upfront next year that the people that are more important in your view will receive special considerations at the possible expense of fair play for others who await their turn. I'd like to know how many of the top pro's are comfortable with this concept; nothing to do with match considerations, "I've got a bigger name than yours so I can bump your unimportant ass to the back of the bus."

Hu

 

[ForumGhost516]

Had it been only for match considerations I wouldn't have said a thing. You said that was the deal upfront when you started the event. Your own post saying that you had to consider the impact that pleasing or not pleasing charlie in particular had when deciding to let him continue play was what made my decision for me and I'm sure I'm not alone. Many people wouldn't piss on charlie if he was on fire. To learn that we would be considered second class citizens to him were we to participate in anything you were involved in as a TD or promoter insures that some customers will be lost. Some who believe in fair play will be lost regardless of who it is you elevate to special status. Tough enough competing with the top players without having to give them a spot which is what all of the peons that don't receive special treatment are effectively doing.

I'm sure you can afford the loss of a few people that think that everyone should be treated equally but that is just the way I roll. I have competed alongside people that were so far above charlie in their own sport that they make him look like a pygmy(with apologies to pygmies!) and always been treated as an equal because we were indeed equals, at least at the moment. We all put our money up and we were all entitled to equal consideration.

At the very least you should be upfront next year that the people that are more important in your view will receive special considerations at the possible expense of fair play for others who await their turn. I'd like to know how many of the top pro's are comfortable with this concept; nothing to do with match considerations, "I've got a bigger name than yours so I can bump your unimportant ass to the back of the bus."

Hu

You misread what I said, Charlie was not treated differently or did i try to please him in any of my decisions. The only way Charlie was considered differently is because of the match situation. Charlie payed his way just like everyone else and was within his rights to take his other innings. Believe I do not want to lose one player let a lone a few. In my opinion the people that were more important were the ones who had never even played 14.1 before and got exposed to the event.

Again to all involved I do apologize but please believe that when we had issued that statement for the players with matches that it was meant for all players and not just Charlie it just so happened that when Lou got bumped it was for Charlie and I think that is part of the problem.


Perhaps what I should have said in my original response was that as a player who payed their entry and had a match that we were extending the same courtesy to him that we would any other player in that situation so ShootingArts perhaps my wording was poor but believe me we had no problem kicking John Schmidt or Mike Davis off table after their turns when they wanted to keep on shooting.

Again I cant apologize enough as I had no idea the impact of that decision would have. I truly hope that everyone comes out next year and that we have more tables to alleviate this problem. In regards to Charlie Williams being given preferential treatment then I guess I am guilty of it along with a number of other players who had matches that were not Charlie Williams.

Sincerely,
Charlie

 

[JamisonNeu]

Well now that was not cool. Check it out Charlie allready said he messed up. I'll bet it doesnt happen again. He even said hey I'll make it up to you. I'll put you in. I am pretty sure it had more to do with Lou Charlie and CW...Let them fix it why pore gasoliine on a fire that is almost out...

 

[Cornerman]

I have missed Jimbo’s party (sorry about that big guy) and must now drink Coors Light.

Lou, be sure to check out the Jimbo Army site and see all the photos of the party. We had plenty of Bud Light (as well as everything else).

I suggest to make it to the SBE at least one more time. For me, this was one of the best that I can remember. And I even skipped The Pit, the pro even, and the 14.1 Challenge!

Fred <~~~ didn't have enough Coors Light

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Hey Lou in regards to lying to you I find that to be a bit harsh considering the situation. Now while I understand where you are coming from and I would have been pissed to I was told from Charlie Williams that he was going to play one inning and that was it. Look at it from my perspective for a second as a tournament promoter and director. The winner of the 2010 Derby City Straight Pool Challenge and possibly one of the biggest promotors of our game just told you hes going to take another inning. Do you bench him for one of the equally important customers and make him wait for their 5 innings in which he will most likely leave or do you let him go. It is an impossible situation.

One of the original caveats to the challenge that I think everyone will attest to is that we were going to make allowances for the people with matches. Lou I truly am sorry that you had a long ass wait time and didnt get to go again man. I truly am. In that same vein next year I would like to extend to you a try on me. Please accept that as a token of my apology for your bad experience. Simple as that. Oh and I agree completely with the smell down there and where we were it seemed like we were down wind of the wafting scent.

Sincerely,
Charlie

Ok, let me premise this by saying that THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK.
But I am a very opinionated person, and some things make my blood boil.

So anyway.

This is yet another situation created by players playing in multiple events.
I had posted up another thread a while ago about situations that happened at the Derby, when players were forced to have their tournament matches bumped because of people playing in the 14.1 challenge and taking to long, and having to wait for them as a result.

NOW, the situation is of players IN the 14.1 being bumped to wait for others who are playing in other events.

How is this in any way fair?
Sorry, but as a rule, if you try to please everyone, you are undoubtedly going to step on peoples toes, and piss people off in the process.
Just because no one else has actually come on the forum and actually complained, doesn't mean that they aren't pissed.
Where as, if you didn't make any special accommodations, the ONLY people that would be pissed off would be the ones who wanted special treatment, who didn't get it.

If a player signs up for multiple events, if they can't make it on time, SCREW THEM!
Sorry, but if someone has been waiting, you know who you make wait? The guy who came late, NOT the guy who has been waiting patiently.

I don't care if the SBE promoter Allen Hopkins himself came over and wanted to bump someone so he could take a shot, YOU TELL THEM NO!
ALL you are saying by this is that certain people are more important than others, and if that is the message that you want to give, then this event will always be tainted by it.
Lay some ground rules and stick by them, and everyone falls in line.
You wait your turn, and if your schedule can't accommodate it, tough luck, see you next year.
If that means that some pro has to wait till 2am to try their run, and they have an early match the next day, it's on THEM.
Your responsibility as the tournament director and promoter is TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE EVENT.
YES, YOU DO bench him. He is just another player.
It IS NOT an impossible situation. You just have to stick to your guns. It's not that hard really.
You mean to tell me that life as we know it, wouldn't be able to go on because someone who expects special treatment doesn't get it one time and might leave as a result? DO THEY OWN THE 14.1 EVENT? DID THEY PUT UP ALL THE MONEY TO MAKE THE 14.1 EVENT HAPPEN? Who the F CARES if they get bent out of shape. Let 'em walk.
I mean, you might have your reasons, but there is no way i would ever kiss someones ass, i don't care WHO they are.
This type of stuff just makes me want to puke.

On another note.

I only was able to stop by the SBE early Saturday evening to meet up with a friend, for a couple of hours.
When we went over to the 14.1 challenge to see how some of the locals might have been doing, there was absolutely nothing to indicate who the leaders were. So when my buddy went over to ask what the high runs were from the person with the clipboard, he was met with the answer, "We aren't releasing that information at this time".
We asked one of the guys we knew who was waiting, and he said he wasn't told.
When we bumped into someone else we knew and asked him if he might know, he knew all the high runs and said the guy with the clipboard had told him earlier, then, yet someone else said that the whole "not releasing the info" answer started after some guys put up some high numbers.

Like what is up with THAT?
I would assume that this was done so that the people who think they have a chance, but who realistically DON'T have a legitimate chance to win or put up some respectable numbers, wouldn't be discouraged by leaders that they have NO chance of competing against, who would then dump some money into the event as a result.
Sorry, but if , and let me repeat that, IF this is what/why it happened, i don't agree with it at all.

I mean, i am all for competing. But i am also for making informed decisions.
Sure, if you have a leader-board with the numbers posted, you might lose a couple of customers, but at least, you are not stealing from the guy who has NO SHOT at winning it, who doesn't know it.
You are still going to get the guys who are there for a good time, and who want to support the event because they love the game, who don't mind spending the cash, but at least the rest of the people who may or may not play, can make that decision knowing all the info.

But finally.
Kudos to everyone involved in making this event happen. I understand that it was a tremendous success, and hopefully it will keep growing.
There are just certain things that i, myself, would do differently.

 

[ForumGhost516]

I couldnt agree more

Ok, let me premise this by saying that THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK.
But I am a very opinionated person, and some things make my blood boil.

So anyway.

This is yet another situation created by players playing in multiple events.
I had posted up another thread a while ago about situations that happened at the Derby, when players were forced to have their tournament matches bumped because of people playing in the 14.1 challenge and taking to long, and having to wait for them as a result.

NOW, the situation is of players IN the 14.1 being bumped to wait for others who are playing in other events.

How is this in any way fair?
Sorry, but as a rule, if you try to please everyone, you are undoubtedly going to step on peoples toes, and piss people off in the process.
Just because no one else has actually come on the forum and actually complained, doesn't mean that they aren't pissed.
Where as, if you didn't make any special accommodations, the ONLY people that would be pissed off would be the ones who wanted special treatment, who didn't get it.

If a player signs up for multiple events, if they can't make it on time, SCREW THEM!
Sorry, but if someone has been waiting, you know who you make wait? The guy who came late, NOT the guy who has been waiting patiently.

I don't care if the SBE promoter Allen Hopkins himself came over and wanted to bump someone so he could take a shot, YOU TELL THEM NO!
ALL you are saying by this is that certain people are more important than others, and if that is the message that you want to give, then this event will always be tainted by it.
Lay some ground rules and stick by them, and everyone falls in line.
You wait your turn, and if your schedule can't accommodate it, tough luck, see you next year.
If that means that some pro has to wait till 2am to try their run, and they have an early match the next day, it's on THEM.
Your responsibility as the tournament director and promoter is TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE EVENT.
YES, YOU DO bench him. He is just another player.
It IS NOT an impossible situation. You just have to stick to your guns. It's not that hard really.
You mean to tell me that life as we know it, wouldn't be able to go on because someone who expects special treatment doesn't get it one time and might leave as a result? DO THEY OWN THE 14.1 EVENT? DID THEY PUT UP ALL THE MONEY TO MAKE THE 14.1 EVENT HAPPEN? Who the F CARES if they get bent out of shape. Let 'em walk.
I mean, you might have your reasons, but there is no way i would ever kiss someones ass, i don't care WHO they are.
This type of stuff just makes me want to puke.

On another note.

I only was able to stop by the SBE early Saturday evening to meet up with a friend, for a couple of hours.
When we went over to the 14.1 challenge to see how some of the locals might have been doing, there was absolutely nothing to indicate who the leaders were. So when my buddy went over to ask what the high runs were from the person with the clipboard, he was met with the answer, "We aren't releasing that information at this time".
We asked one of the guys we knew who was waiting, and he said he wasn't told.
When we bumped into someone else we knew and asked him if he might know, he knew all the high runs and said the guy with the clipboard had told him earlier, then, yet someone else said that the whole "not releasing the info" answer started after some guys put up some high numbers.

Like what is up with THAT?
I would assume that this was done so that the people who think they have a chance, but who realistically DON'T have a legitimate chance to win or put up some respectable numbers, wouldn't be discouraged by leaders that they have NO chance of competing against, who would then dump some money into the event as a result.
Sorry, but if , and let me repeat that, IF this is what/why it happened, i don't agree with it at all.

I mean, i am all for competing. But i am also for making informed decisions.
Sure, if you have a leader-board with the numbers posted, you might lose a couple of customers, but at least, you are not stealing from the guy who has NO SHOT at winning it, who doesn't know it.
You are still going to get the guys who are there for a good time, and who want to support the event because they love the game, who don't mind spending the cash, but at least the rest of the people who may or may not play, can make that decision knowing all the info.

But finally.
Kudos to everyone involved in making this event happen. I understand that it was a tremendous success, and hopefully it will keep growing.
There are just certain things that i, myself, would do differently.

Thank you for the kudos and your opinions as I think what you said was valid.

Next year scores will be posted. I think that was more of a fear reaction than anything that we all had because we had about ten walk aways in about twenty minutes at one point when they heard who was competing and what some of the scores were. Like you said players need to make an informed decision and that will be made easier next year when we post scores and info etc.


As for players signing up for multiple events I have to agree with you. I was asked by the people in the 14.1 forum to include the rule about letting players play who have matches etc. I am not saying that I agree or disagree with this rule however I think it presents a number of obvious problems.

All I can say guys is that next year things will be done A LOT differently and we are hoping that it will be run smoother cleaner and better. Simple as that.

For anyone who would like to add their opinions good or bad I am ready to hear all of it and have been hearing all of it so please continue, in my view it will only make the event stronger for next year so that everyone will enjoy.

Sincerely,
Charlie

 

[SUPERSTAR]

If you are looking for criticism, i suggest that you post a thread in 14.1 looking for just that.
You might want to link this thread also, so that people will know what topics have been covered.

The reason i am saying this is that this thread is Lou's SBE thread, and i am sure that there are some 14.1 people who might have passed over it, simply because they are tired of reading SBE threads or don't care, and don't know of the 14.1 details that are inside.