Bar Table • Heavy Cue Balls • Pool Tips •

[JoeyA]

Woo Hoo! Somehow, the term applies to this thread but I can't imagine me saying it no matter how excited I get.

I didn't imagine that this thread would pop so quickly. I really like all of your suggestions and even visited the older thread which I missed previously.

These are some excellent tips and I thank all of you for them.

Now if you have some PARTICULAR information about playing 9 rocket on the bar table, I AM ALL EARS.

The tournament I am gearing up for is the White Diamonds Tournament in Lafayette, LA. Their calcutta often goes to the tens of thousands of dollars. I think they have had a calcutta bust the 30,000 mark. I've played in it before and played poorly and wanted to sharpen my game up a bit and your suggestions will do just that. I'll probably go for cheap in the Calcutta because of my poor play on the bar box but that's OK, I won't have to threaten anyone for bidding me up in the Calcutta. :thumbup:

It starts tomorrow, with lots of top players, including Max Eberle, James Davis Jr, Cliff Joyner, Joey Gray, Chip Compton,Lisa Marr, New Orleans Glen, Big Truck (streaming) Doug Young, Bill Fuller and bar box massah Jesse Bowman as well as one of my all time favorite gambling pool players, James Walden. Think I may need more than a few pool tips?

Prayers, good thoughts, best wishes etc will be accepted. :winknudge:

OK, I'm done but I'm still looking for some 9 ball tips on the bar box........

THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE THREAD!

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

I find that less cue ball movement is key to success on a bar box. Select patterns that minimize cue ball movement.

For example, settle for a longer shot where you can shoot a stop shot rather than a short cut shot where you have to move the cue ball a foot or two and bounce off one cushion.

I wrote an article about the adjustment from a 9' to 7' table a few months ago.

http://www.billiardcoach.com/home/2009/11/19/billiards-big-table-to-bar-box

WOW! That is an excellent article Mike. Appreciate you bringing it to my attention. Now I see why you teach pool as well as compete.

Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[stljohnny]

Great collection of advice here... and extremely timely as well. I primarily play on goldcrown 9' with decently fast cloth. A few weeks ago, I was invited to a friend's 8-ball bar league. The traveling team so far has ran into a WIDE array of less-than-perfect 7' bar tables. I really had a hard time adjusting to the cue ball's reluctancy to do what I tell it without hitting it like superman. Combined with unpredictable rebound angles off the rails, it has been quite a humbling time.

I finally found, I think, a way that helps me personally adjust quickly to the barboxes. I get to the bar a few hours early that's hosting our match night and I literally run drills on the tables until it's match time. Shot making drills, position drills, or just lagging 1, 2 and 3 table lengths for a while. I, as best I can, ignore the 2-rail position plays while in a match-game but I will work through those drills as well to see how the table is playing.

This has really helped me get a good internal feel for the table prior to my league games, and I hope to be able to continue to do this.

There's a small barbox tourney next weekend, so I'll be sure to really test this theory then.

 

[Secaucus Fats]

Get a copy of "The Eight Ball Bible" it's specifically geared towards bar box play with the oversize / overweight cueball.

BTW, the Aramith 'green S' cueball and the Aramith 2 1/4" magnetic plug ball only work on Valley tables and the newest Dynamo tables. The old Dynamo tables require either the oversize 'Fat Albert' cueball or the overweight Dynamo red dot cueball.

Most of the better bars here in my area (Hudson and Bergen Counties in NJ) use Valley tables with the Aramith 2 1/4" green 'S' cueball or the 2 1/4" Aramith magnetic plug ball, both of which work quite well.

 

[Neil]

...........

 

[mr_griff]

barbox

I'm not the player most of you are, but the flip side is I rarely play nice tables other my own (which is far from a diamond, but has new rubber and Simonis). I play mostly bar box, and the fact that I have a faster truer playing table at home helps me adjust better than most of my counties players once we go to a regional event with diamond tables.

The Aramith magnetic cue ball for your home bar table is something every team should just split for a couple of dollars each. Id like to see that as a BCA league rule

As far as adjustments go, I think most of the good stuff has already been repeated.

-Force follow straight into a rail is a recipe for disaster more so than even draw. I know everyone says drawing the ball is death, but unless its out of the question I'd dedicate most of your practice to it. Drawing a few feet beats moving the ball all around a little crowded table that doesn't roll straight.

-You might find if replacing the equipment isn't possible, cleaning at least the cueball will help.

-Become a master of the "most of you are two stupid to realize I missed that shot on purpose or took that hard shot for a reason because you think I'm the devil if I play a safety" if thats the culture of where you play. Nobody wants to be the only guy playing safeties all the time.

-Play to the big spots and you might not get burned as bad with table roll, which is a given.

-Learn how much the cue ball can be thrown. It obviously is a nice tool for keeping whitey under raps, but not if everything throws two inches more than you expect since the ball is full of grease and the finish is gone.

 

[backplaying]

Joey, i can understand you going from a 9ft diamond to a nap cloth valley as being a problem. They didn't have diamonds back when i played,and i can say a 7 or 9 footer plays nothing like a 9ft gold crown or a 7ft valley. I would think getting the speed down would be the most important thing,and you can play more angle on the valley than you would on a diamond,and stay off the rails as you know the rails are not lively like the diamonds. You can also cheat the pockets on a valley if you have to unlike a pro-cut diamond. Even though i played barbox 90% of the time back then, if they had a 9ft gold crown at a place I was going to play i would practice on it before going to the barbox. It would make all shots look easy and the speed would be easy to ajust to since all the goldcrowns back then had the slow cloth also. If they have 9ft goldcrowns with around the same speed cloth, i would hits some balls on it and go to the barbox and see how much easier it plays. I had planned to go to this tournament also, but will be going to the one in Conyers instead.Good luck in the tournament.P.S. forgot the most important part of barbox play,getting the break down! It will decide the winner most of the time.

 

[chefjeff]

Forget about the side pockets. There will be obvious shots there, but you are usually better off to go ahead and play position for the corners. With the easier shots in corner pockets, there is usually more success not playing the more precise position for the sides...

Mike

I'd like to put a caution in this advice, if I may.

The 8-Ball Bible, imho, gives the wrong advice ref. side pockets when it says to avoid those. This, if followed religiously, takes away a lot of good options and limits one's success and fun on a barbox.

Valley tables have very tight side pockets, thus the advice. But the sides are still pockets into which balls WILL fall if hit correctly.

If there is a 50/50 shot success with the side or corner and the leave will be ok, then the corner. But that's just a rule of thumb, not a mandate and that's as far as the advice should go, imho.

I post this because I really ruined my side pocket shooting (after reading the 8-Ball Bible) by avoiding the sides too often to where I lost my confidence and thus my ability to pocket there when needed. I'm working my way back to side pocket excellence!

Jeff Livingston

 

[Bambu]

If I dont have a decent cue ball, or if the cue ball is heavy....I stay on center as much as I can.

 

[WoodyJ]

The 8-Ball Bible, imho, gives the wrong advice ref. side pockets when it says to avoid those. This, if followed religiously, takes away a lot of good options and limits one's success and fun on a barbox.

Agreed. I love going for side pockets and have great success.

But, depends on the table.

Some have wide bucket pockets that are like black holes. You can slow roll an object ball down the rail past the side pocket and it will get sucked in.

Others, like the one in the local bar, have ridges on the rim in front of the pockets. If you slow roll a ball at them at an angle the ball will be rejected and roll away from the pocket at the last instant. I've even had straight in shots that would normally barely drop in a pocket come straight back towards me at the last instant.

-----------------------

P.S.: Always check the level on the table by slow rolling balls all over the table. Many bar table slates are not level. So it's impossible to level the table:

- Some have a ridge down the middle and will roll true in the middle but will lean towards the long rail on each side.

- Some are level from side-to-side but have a valley in the middle across where the side pockets are. So, if you shoot a ball from side-to-side at the ends it will always curve towards the middle of the table.

- A couple of weeks ago I played league on a bar table that end-to-end was level on one half of the table but leaned towards the middle of the table on the other half.

- And, always check the level of the table with an object ball. If the table roles true with an object ball. Then check the cue ball. Some magnetic cueballs have a chunk of metal in the middle (that's off-center) and will roll off to one side (whereas an object ball will roll straight).

 

[Doc Holliday]

I play almost exclusively on valley barbox, not by choice but closest poolhall is over an hour drive. Most of the good points have already been covered, but I can add 1 good thing. You can hit slight cut shots with a stun stroke and get virtually no side(tangent line) travel from the cue ball. Of course this assumes the tables have not been re felted with simonis, in which case the exact opposite is true. On standard "bar felt" I would say you can cut a ball 5 to 10 degrees with no perceptable cue ball movement, and that does not take into account cheating the pockets.

You cannot take the side pockets for granted, and if faced with a thin cut into the front side or a bank at the back side I would seriously consider the bank.

When I bank a ball cross side I take it with normal speed, when I try a long table bank I like to hit these a little softer, often times you can kiss the rail going in and still make the ball.Thats already been mentioned tho....best of luck!

 

[Mikjary]

If you want to play 9 ball on the bar box leave your long, smooth stroke at home. Smaller work areas use different tools. Most of your shots will be middle ball or draw. You don't need alot of follow. The heavy CB will plow through clusters with ease. It doesn't deflect as much as a regular CB on bigger tables.
Shooting with a firm, crisp stroke and quick extreme spin with reverse or running english, will help you maneuver around tight areas. You can really kill the rock with reverse and draw. Remember that "the rock will roll".
If you can run a rack on a big table you should be able to run three on a bar rag. My high run for 9 ball ring games on 9 footers is 5 racks, but on a bar box it is 7. Much easier on the smaller table.

 

[grindz]

I know you asked "good" players to respond....

but I am a "good" armchair player IMO!!! Anyway, it's kind of late to
change a lot for this w/e without 'braining' yourself out of the tourney quickly. For the next one.... I like... practice regularly on a 9' playing full rack rotation ... play the ghost at it, to get yourself used to working the ball all over the place.... from there play BB ghost 9ball giving the ghost 2 on every miss, while concentrating on your angles of approach into the position zone (this is where the rotation practice comes in). After about 10 years of this practice you will be a bar table champion!!!!!!

What do you think??? Am I CRAZY??!!!

td

 

[danquixote]

Just go buy "The 8 Ball Bible"

All of these tips and suggestions, and much more are contained within "The 8 Ball Bible" I cannot recommend it highly enough. Some posters have already mentioned it, Buy the book!!!!!!

 

[JoeyA]

Yowzaaaa. This forum could write a book. You've all written great stuff and it won't go to waste. Others beside myself will be perusing the forum for an edge on the Bar Box will be happy they found this thread.

OK, even though I am backed up on books and videos, I will stock up on the 8 Ball Bible the next time I pass one. I used to play 8 ball fairly well, but that was when I used to play on the bar boxes a couple of nights a week even if it was for just a few games.

Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[dabarbr]

Joey, if your going to play in a bar table nine ball tournament then my advise is to try to have a control break and hope to pocket a ball. This is the one and most important thing that you can do. There is a lot of good advise given here but in reality there is not much difference between bar table nine ball and big table nine ball.

It is much easier to make the transition from the big table to the little table in regards to nine ball. Most everything is the same but basically a bit easier. IMO the break on the little table will be the difference between players of somewhat equal abilities.

However if you're talking about eight ball on the bar table then the difference is huge. Now the difference is the dimensions of the tables. Eight ball becomes more difficult as you progress through your run because the traffic remains there and now your position needs to be more precise as oppose to nine ball getting easier as you run off some ball because of less congestion.

When I'm getting ready for a bar table eight ball and want to practice on a big table then I will just put all the balls on one half of the table. I start with a random position with the cue ball and proceed to run out from there. This somewhat simulates the congestions that you will be confronted with on a small table. Develop the confidence to use the side pockets and keep the movement of the cue ball simple.

There is so much involved in playing a good game of eight ball that it really takes years for most of us to develop a decent game. There is way too much about this game to try to give someone advise on in any one post. Gook luck in your tournament and play well.

 

[Johnnyt]

One more thing I forgot to mention. IMO if you are talking about 8-ball on a BB, a good 14.1 background helps a lot. Johnnyt

 

[accustatsfan]

I would like to know what you have to do to make your game more consistent on the bar table, especially if you are used to playing on the larger tables.

I'm not a known bar box champion, but I have moments when I put it together.

Do you play on bar tables in a pool hall or bar atmosphere? Their can be a big mental game adjustment in a bar. Players don't know the rules or make them up as they go along, don't like safeties. Balls or cloth haven't been changed since Moses chalked up.

8 ball bible is great

Practice 14.1 on the big table and the bar table.

What kind of cue ball are you playing with?

Don't be afraid to nudge balls when you need to hold for position.

Practice favorite 9 ft table shots on the bar table to see the difference.

 

[accustatsfan]

When I'm getting ready for a bar table eight ball and want to practice on a big table then I will just put all the balls on one half of the table. I start with a random position with the cue ball and proceed to run out from there. This somewhat simulates the congestions that you will be confronted with on a small table. Develop the confidence to use the side pockets and keep the movement of the cue ball simple.

Frank,
Do you play 8 ball with half the table or just any ball any pocket?

 

[JasonS]

Joey,

My keys to success on the bar table:

Stop shots - as often as possible
Limited english - keep it simple - follow, draw, stop
Cue ball control - keep whitey still
Think simple patterns
Break out clusters early and often

That's all I got :thumbup:

Just like this chap said... To add a little I've had to change my mental game a bit when transitioning to a smaller table. Just because the table is smaller and the table size/pocket size ratio is more favorable doesn't mean you can just take one practice stroke and assume you're going to make the ball. Once I remember that its pretty f-ing tough to knock me off the table :wink:.