2 Miss BIH Rules Question - from days gone by

[KoolKat9Lives]

Got a question on the old 2 miss BIH rule. I recall it as playing "Push-Out", my opponent doesn't.

In any case, if I am hooked and choose to intentionally miss and leave a difficult shot, my opponent has the option to shoot. If he chooses to take the shot and does noit make a good hit, do i get BIH?

 

[pooljunkie4ever]

Got a question on the old 2 miss BIH rule. I recall it as playing "Push-Out", my opponent doesn't.

In any case, if I am hooked and choose to intentionally miss and leave a difficult shot, my opponent has the option to shoot. If he chooses to take the shot and does noit make a good hit, do i get BIH?

If you push, and the opponent decides to shoot, he can give you the shoot, he can shoot the shoot, or he can push also. If he shoots and commits a foul, you don't get ball in hand, at this point, you have the option of letting him shot again or you taking the shot, now if u let him shoot again and he fouls, than you get BIH. IN other words, you have to commit 2 fouls in a row.

 

[Pushout]

Got a question on the old 2 miss BIH rule. I recall it as playing "Push-Out", my opponent doesn't.

In any case, if I am hooked and choose to intentionally miss and leave a difficult shot, my opponent has the option to shoot. If he chooses to take the shot and does noit make a good hit, do i get BIH?

You get ball in hand. That's the way it was always played when I learned. In different parts of the country the rules differ. Some places play any two fouls, which was the way we played, others play two fouls by the same player, which we never played. You really need to set this in advance. Never heard it called anything else but push out.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I remember it as 2 fouls in a row, regardless of who was shooting.

The first push out is a foul, and the shot (taken by whomever), if it resulted in a foul, would = BIH.

 

[Pushout]

I remember it as 2 fouls in a row, regardless of who was shooting.

The first push out is a foul, and the shot (taken by whomever), if it resulted in a foul, would = BIH.

As I said in my post, this varied depending on where you were playing. I heard of people playing that way but not until discussions of the one-foul-ball-in-hand rules in the early-mid '80s. I heard this from local road players who told us about it comparing it to the texas express type stuff. At that time almost all head to head matchups were push out with the tournaments becoming one-foul-ball-in-hand.

 

[Mikjary]

When anybody scratched (first foul) you got BIH in the kitchen. If you didn't like the shot you could give it back to the other player. If you scratched on the eight ball (or the ball before the money) or the nine ball, they were spotted and you shot out of the kitchen...no easy BIH outs like one shot foul rules.

 

[dabarbr]

I remember it as 2 fouls in a row, regardless of who was shooting.

The first push out is a foul, and the shot (taken by whomever), if it resulted in a foul, would = BIH.

This is the way it was normally played, however on rare occasions we did play two fouls by the same person which was a very different game with different strategy. With these rules after he pushed you could re-push if you didn't want to take the shot and didn't want him to take it from that position so you would relocate the cue ball and now you're both on one foul.

P.S. I've had games playing pushout eight ball. Try that one for size.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Change of venue or Spacey Ant and me

This is the way it was normally played, however on rare occasions we did play two fouls by the same person which was a very different game with different strategy. With these rules after he pushed you could re-push if you didn't want to take the shot and didn't want him to take it from that position so you would relocate the cue ball and now you're both on one foul.

P.S. I've had games playing pushout eight ball. Try that one for size.

I was hoping someone with a little more experience would respond.

J/K! Thanks Frank.

OK, the remainder of this post comes with a 6 pack disclaimer, lol

My good bud/playinpard, "EZ Money" and I were playing today. We had been discussing the merits of diff rules, relative to AZ posts:

- SBE rules
- Mezz Hardish Time Rules
- 2 Miss BIH rules, which I call "Push-out"
- And most impacting - our interpretation/recollection of rulez

So I asked our pool hall management who had control of the only visible mouse to post this OP... (Thanks David for putting up with us!). Do 2 misses, regardless of who's cue-tip = bih?


My conclusion...

.... I got none. But I got 2 Iced-ish Teas... And that makes me wanna just hit the damn rail summore..


But why have pushout if your opponent can do the same... (I swear I'm not biased...)


GF: "Matt, put the keyboard down"

Me: "Yes dear"

Meh. Order of the universe shit.



Cheerio

 

[Mikjary]

You play any two fouls, otherwise you're gonna end up playing in a friggin' hockey game with some grinder that can't pull the trigger.:boring2:

 

[pdcue]

Got a question on the old 2 miss BIH rule. I recall it as playing "Push-Out", my opponent doesn't.

In any case, if I am hooked and choose to intentionally miss and leave a difficult shot, my opponent has the option to shoot. If he chooses to take the shot and does noit make a good hit, do i get BIH?

Jay Helfert - where are you now that we need you?

The original Pushout evolved from the 3-foul-loss-of-game rule
intituted in the early 60s at Johnston City when they expanded the
format to include 9 Ball.

It was certainly only 2 consective fouls by the same player that resulted
in BIH.

I never heard of the other version.

Dale

 

[Pushout]

Jay Helfert - where are you now that we need you?

The original Pushout evolved from the 3-foul-loss-of-game rule
intituted in the early 60s at Johnston City when they expanded the
format to include 9 Ball.

It was certainly only 2 consective fouls by the same player that resulted
in BIH.

I never heard of the other version.

Dale

And I never heard of two consecutive fouls by the same player until years after I started playing. This would change the strategy of the game entirely. I also never heard of three fouls loss of game except in One Pocket until the one-foul-ball-in-hand rules took over the tournaments.

 

[Pushout]

I seem to remember reading rules for this long ago but can't remember just when it was. I started playing in 1961, I think. I have an Official BCA Rule Book from 1958 and there are no rules for 9 Ball at all!

 

[pt109]

Onus should be on original push

Whatever the local rule was,i would only play 2 fouls by same player.
If a player pushed to his favorite 'white flag',i wanted the option of
pushing to my favorite 'white flag'.

In straight pool and 1 hole,the onus is always on the guy who makes
the first foul.
I think this is fair and good gaming logic.

 

[dabarbr]

Jay Helfert - where are you now that we need you?

The original Pushout evolved from the 3-foul-loss-of-game rule
intituted in the early 60s at Johnston City when they expanded the
format to include 9 Ball.

It was certainly only 2 consective fouls by the same player that resulted
in BIH.

I never heard of the other version.

Dale

No, 2 consective fouls by the same player was very rare and required too many stipulations. Pushout was normally played as 2 consective fouls by any player.

Playing 2 consective fouls by the same player allows the other player to re-push after your push. Without numerious stipulations you guys could push all day long on the same shot. An example would be (without stipulations) that if you pushed you are now on one and I then re-push and hook you, now must kick or give up ball in hand. I think you get the idea of the many little things would come into play with this rule.

Without a doubt it was played as 2 consective fouls by anyone, the way it's played today after the break.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

No, 2 consective fouls by the same player was very rare and required too many stipulations. Pushout was normally played as 2 consective fouls by any player.

Playing 2 consective fouls by the same player allows the other player to re-push after your push. Without numerious stipulations you guys could push all day long on the same shot. An example would be (without stipulations) that if you pushed you are now on one and I then re-push and hook you, now must kick or give up ball in hand. I think you get the idea of the many little things would come into play with this rule.

Without a doubt it was played as 2 consective fouls by anyone, the way it's played today after the break.

That's how I recalled it and this is exactly the reasoning I expressed when discussing it with my opponent. His response was along the lines of "yeah but, although this makes sense, in all practicality, we'd never keep pushing back and forth, back and forth."

Regardless, and as usual, pool rules are frustratingly too often "different" depending on who and where. Gotta arm wrestle 'em up front before doing battle.

Thanks guys for the input. Seems more people think that in my example, BIH would be awarded.

I pmed Jay and hope he'll cite specific tourney examples.

 

[pt109]

koolcat and dabrbr

There is no continous pushing in two fouls by same player.
You push-you're on 1 foul
I push-i'm on 1 foul
You now have option of shooting or to say shoot again
Why would anybody push again?
It would be 2nd foul by same player resulting in ball in hand.

 

[dabarbr]

There is no continous pushing in two fouls by same player.
You push-you're on 1 foul
I push-i'm on 1 foul
You now have option of shooting or to say shoot again
Why would anybody push again?
It would be 2nd foul by same player resulting in ball in hand.

Now this makes a lot of sense but before starting play you need to stipulate that the foul carries over to your next turn at the table. I think I mentioned this in an earlier post.

Back then you wanted to have all bases covered before starting a match. Everyone had different ideas on the rules. I don't think there was anything written down for pushout.

Today's rules say that only one pushout is allowed after the break.

 

[pt109]

Now this makes a lot of sense but before starting play you need to stipulate that the foul carries over to your next turn at the table. I think I mentioned this in an earlier post.

Back then you wanted to have all bases covered before starting a match. Everyone had different ideas on the rules. I don't think there was anything written down for pushout.

Today's rules say that only one pushout is allowed after the break.

Needed to stipulate for sure.....
Some times the stipulating went on for hours....
....I think you've been there