This Aiming System Crap is Killing Me

crawfish

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone agree? I mean, find me four outta the top fifty that will swear they use the "Whatever System" and tell me about it in detail, and I'll retract the "crap" part of it.

Maybe it's worth a listen if:

1. We're not human
2. We're robotic in mannerisms.
3. You can program the mind (or central data system if we are robotic) to disregard human emotion.
4. There is no emotion, adrenaline, or ego.
5. Take away the poolroom atmosphere and distractions.


6. Oh, hell. I could go on. I'll just mention this. "IF WE'RE IN A VACUUM, AND THE PERSON PERFORMING SAID SYSTEM IS PERFECT AND UNFLAWED IN ANY WAY."

Come on guys. There is NO SHORTCUTS. Practice WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU. NO TWO HUMANS ARE ALIKE. Look at McCready's stroke. System? Yeah, maybe for him. But, can you emulate this? Probably not. Wish to fu#$ I could.

Guarantee you if you asked 75% or more of the great players about a "system" and they'll chuckle to themselves. They might not make someone feel uncomfortable about asking, but they are chuckling. I've heard it. Three top (and I mean top) laughing about a fella asking about this CTE stuff.

AGAIN. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT. You play constantly under pressure with what works best for you, then play great players constantly, and hang out with good players and watch, then play, practice, and play more. Absolutely no shaft, glove, taper, tip, etc. etc. will make you Johnny.

Mad at me or not over this, I'm telling you what most of the good players would tell you. Like it or not, 97% would do anything to be like the other 3%. Anything. And some could be locked in a room with Johnny for a decade and come out nowhere his speed. Some will NEVER GET IT. But, I personally don't believe in gimmicks. If this stuff works for you, great. Use it. Mentally use anything that works for you in a positive manner. But, when it's 8-8 in a race to nine for the cash, I hope you're not relying on a gimmick to get you there.
 
crawfish

maybe you can get a mailing list from those selling aiming systems of their satisfied customers and go play them some.it would give you a plan for the summer.

bill
 
vasilios said:
crawfish

maybe you can get a mailing list from those selling aiming systems of their satisfied customers and go play them some.it would give you a plan for the summer.

bill
Click to expand...

Dude, rep to you. What a good idea. I might get beat by a few, but I like my end overall. Thanks for your contribution.
 
crawfish said:
Anyone agree? I mean, find me four outta the top fifty that will swear they use the "Whatever System" and tell me about it in detail, and I'll retract the "crap" part of it.

Maybe it's worth a listen if:

1. We're not human
2. We're robotic in mannerisms.
3. You can program the mind (or central data system if we are robotic) to disregard human emotion.
4. There is no emotion, adrenaline, or ego.
5. Take away the poolroom atmosphere and distractions.


6. Oh, hell. I could go on. I'll just mention this. "IF WE'RE IN A VACUUM, AND THE PERSON PERFORMING SAID SYSTEM IS PERFECT AND UNFLAWED IN ANY WAY."

Come on guys. There is NO SHORTCUTS. Practice WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU. NO TWO HUMANS ARE ALIKE. Look at McCready's stroke. System? Yeah, maybe for him. But, can you emulate this? Probably not. Wish to fu#$ I could.

Guarantee you if you asked 75% or more of the great players about a "system" and they'll chuckle to themselves. They might not make someone feel uncomfortable about asking, but they are chuckling. I've heard it. Three top (and I mean top) laughing about a fella asking about this CTE stuff.

AGAIN. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT. You play constantly under pressure with what works best for you, then play great players constantly, and hang out with good players and watch, then play, practice, and play more. Absolutely no shaft, glove, taper, tip, etc. etc. will make you Johnny.

Mad at me or not over this, I'm telling you what most of the good players would tell you. Like it or not, 97% would do anything to be like the other 3%. Anything. And some could be locked in a room with Johnny for a decade and come out nowhere his speed. Some will NEVER GET IT. But, I personally don't believe in gimmicks. If this stuff works for you, great. Use it. Mentally use anything that works for you in a positive manner. But, when it's 8-8 in a race to nine for the cash, I hope you're not relying on a gimmick to get you there.
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You post has some merit, may I ask you if you use any "system", or do you just bang away, and pray?
 
CocoboloCowboy said:

You post has some merit, may I ask you if you use any "system", or do you just bang away, and pray?
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Oh I'm a banger and prayer. I'll take the eight and play some.



No, I judge by feel, and years of watching the best of the best's patterns. This game is about patterns. You can play perfect and get beat if your break patterns aren't as good as the other guy. No ONE player's way is better than the other. Again, the prettiest stroke is Buddy Hall to me; but, ask him about his system and watch him grin.

I have terrible habits and quirks, but I'd be willing to bet that I can play with 90% or more of all poolplayers that play at least twice a week, maybe more. This is counting the hackers and world beaters. Seriously, think about it, if there is a thousand decent players in the Raleigh area, I feel I can hang with at least 900 or better. At least I can't think of but about twenty that I could match up with even, so maybe I should make a book on a system. It's a game, guys. A lifestyle for some, but for the other 90%, a game. I've experienced both lives, one almost killed me because of my weaknesses that went along with that life.

Just don't get "gimmicked." Hang out with a good player and see if you "get it." I know plenty of guys that won't ever see the picture in whole.
 
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Yes, if craw doesn't want to play them some i will! Look,its all about practice,hitting ball after ball until you learn from mistakes.Its trying to repeat what you have learned through trial and error from hitting many many balls. There is no short cuts that will make you a great player. Yes,if your a beginner someone can teach you the basic's,but you still have to hit many balls. Also,only a very small percent will ever play at a high level reguardless of how many balls they hit. Thats just reality.People tend to have a certain level they reach at everything. I would also say every top player made pool their main thing in life when learning to play. How many can spend 50hrs a day hitting balls or playing other people? looking at these aiming systems post after being away from pool for 15 yrs one would even wonder if they were talking about pool in many post.Its like some are living in a matrix. Has anyone even talked about this aiming system when using a 1/2 tip of english?how about a tip,a tip and a 1/2 and two tips? You think the cueball will roll the same way when shooting easy with extreme middle right or left? I still likes craws aiming system better than any i've heard,and what happened to that thread?
 
crawfish said:
No, I judge by feel, and years of watching the best of the best's patterns. This game is about patterns. You can play perfect and get beat if your break patterns aren't as good as the other guy. No ONE player's way is better than the other. Again, the prettiest stroke is Buddy Hall to me; but, ask him about his system and watch him grin.

I have terrible habits and quirks, but I'd be willing to bet that I can play with 90% or more of all poolplayers that play at least twice a week, maybe more. This is counting the hackers and world beaters. Seriously, think about it, if there is a thousand decent players in my area, I feel I can hang with at least 900 or better so maybe I should make a book on a system.
Click to expand...


Well you mention using "patterns" that is a system not sporadic. It is you system.:wink:
 
crawfish said:
Anyone agree? I mean, find me four outta the top fifty that will swear they use the "Whatever System" and tell me about it in detail, and I'll retract the "crap" part of it.

Maybe it's worth a listen if:

1. We're not human
2. We're robotic in mannerisms.
3. You can program the mind (or central data system if we are robotic) to disregard human emotion.
4. There is no emotion, adrenaline, or ego.
5. Take away the poolroom atmosphere and distractions.


6. Oh, hell. I could go on. I'll just mention this. "IF WE'RE IN A VACUUM, AND THE PERSON PERFORMING SAID SYSTEM IS PERFECT AND UNFLAWED IN ANY WAY."

Come on guys. There is NO SHORTCUTS. Practice WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU. NO TWO HUMANS ARE ALIKE. Look at McCready's stroke. System? Yeah, maybe for him. But, can you emulate this? Probably not. Wish to fu#$ I could.

Guarantee you if you asked 75% or more of the great players about a "system" and they'll chuckle to themselves. They might not make someone feel uncomfortable about asking, but they are chuckling. I've heard it. Three top (and I mean top) laughing about a fella asking about this CTE stuff.

AGAIN. THERE IS NO SHORTCUT. You play constantly under pressure with what works best for you, then play great players constantly, and hang out with good players and watch, then play, practice, and play more. Absolutely no shaft, glove, taper, tip, etc. etc. will make you Johnny.

Mad at me or not over this, I'm telling you what most of the good players would tell you. Like it or not, 97% would do anything to be like the other 3%. Anything. And some could be locked in a room with Johnny for a decade and come out nowhere his speed. Some will NEVER GET IT. But, I personally don't believe in gimmicks. If this stuff works for you, great. Use it. Mentally use anything that works for you in a positive manner. But, when it's 8-8 in a race to nine for the cash, I hope you're not relying on a gimmick to get you there.
Click to expand...

TAP, TAP, TAP !!!!!!!!

everyone likes fast food and shortcuts, neither one is any good !
 
Do you really think that there are no shortcuts?

The Hit a Million Balls method to get to the pros is the equivalent to the concept that ten thousand monkeys typing on ten thousand typewriters for ten thousand years will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare.

Do you honestly think that proefessional class players didn't have help that shortened their learning curve considerably?

Ghost Ball is itself a shortcut. Take two players who have never played before and teach one of them the Ghost Ball method and the other one nothing and let them both shoot 1000 balls at random and then measure which one of them makes more balls in that time frame.

I can give you any number of banking and kicking systems which will dramatically increase your success in these two areas.

If you thnk that pro players aren't using systems then you haven't been paying attention. They ALL use bits and pieces of things theypicked up along the way that work for them. When they are interviewed and the interviewer asks the right questions they often open up about their methods as Shane Van Boeing did the other day on TAR when he said he uses the side of his ferrule to aim with.
 
Neil said:
Interesting how few of you flamed Grady, or Freddy, or a myriad of others when they wrote their books. After all, there are no shortcuts, right? There are no aiming systems. (which of course means ghostball aiming is a crock too, after all, it is a system)

I guess I just won't ever understand why so many are so set against something that has been PROVEN to help people play better?????? If you don't like systems, then you better get off here, and go get your butt on a pool table, you are going to need more time on it trying to figure out what you can learn in systems, books, DVD's, ect. Don't ever listen to someone when they tell you that they have a nice little trick on how to make a certain shot, it will be a system, and we can't have that!

REMEMBER!! The ONLY honorable way to play pool is by just hitting balls around until you hopefully figure out what the heck is happening.

Sorry Craw, I like your posts, except for this one, I think that people that are against using any systems are just plain ignorant of how much that those systems can and do help. Either that, or they don't want so many learning how to play properly because it makes the pickings a lot thinner.
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Maybe I wasn't clear, Neil. I mean that I agree that certain things work for some. But, these systems are only good habits. Call them what you will. Let's just say, "I use good habits." Then, work on your habits. "system" gives the connotation that it's some secret thing that will jump you into unreal status. Every one has a system, period. But, one uniform system? Come on. Playing "properly" is just simply developing good habits and learning the game. But, it's not a system that is for everybody, Neil. There are all kinds of outside influences that can alter a "system." Nerves, noise, emotion, etc. I'm simply stating that there is no shortcut to being a good player.
 
JB Cases said:
Do you really think that there are no shortcuts?

The Hit a Million Balls method to get to the pros is the equivalent to the concept that ten thousand monkeys typing on ten thousand typewriters for ten thousand years will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare.

Do you honestly think that proefessional class players didn't have help that shortened their learning curve considerably?

Ghost Ball is itself a shortcut. Take two players who have never played before and teach one of them the Ghost Ball method and the other one nothing and let them both shoot 1000 balls at random and then measure which one of them makes more balls in that time frame.

I can give you any number of banking and kicking systems which will dramatically increase your success in these two areas.

If you thnk that pro players aren't using systems then you haven't been paying attention. They ALL use bits and pieces of things theypicked up along the way that work for them. When they are interviewed and the interviewer asks the right questions they often open up about their methods as Shane Van Boeing did the other day on TAR when he said he uses the side of his ferrule to aim with.
Click to expand...
John, then let's call it what it is. "Learning the correct way for the individual." We all have picked up things over the years that come out under pressure. Whatever works. But this "system stuff" infers that some secret society of gurus know things that we need to learn. Most people have learned by years of trial and error and watching. That's their system. NO one thing will jump an imtermediate or lesser to pro status. None. That's the only point I'm making.
 
crawfish said:
Oh I'm a banger and prayer. I'll take the eight and play some.



No, I judge by feel, and years of watching the best of the best's patterns. This game is about patterns. You can play perfect and get beat if your break patterns aren't as good as the other guy. No ONE player's way is better than the other. Again, the prettiest stroke is Buddy Hall to me; but, ask him about his system and watch him grin.

I have terrible habits and quirks, but I'd be willing to bet that I can play with 90% or more of all poolplayers that play at least twice a week, maybe more. This is counting the hackers and world beaters. Seriously, think about it, if there is a thousand decent players in the Raleigh area, I feel I can hang with at least 900 or better. At least I can't think of but about twenty that I could match up with even, so maybe I should make a book on a system. It's a game, guys. A lifestyle for some, but for the other 90%, a game. I've experienced both lives, one almost killed me because of my weaknesses that went along with that life.

Just don't get "gimmicked." Hang out with a good player and see if you "get it." I know plenty of guys that won't ever see the picture in whole.
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Amen brother....


I have an idea...

We should have an AZ tournament...

Aiming Method Users Vs. Non-Aiming Method Users.....

I'm ALL IN on the latter.....
 
Neil said:
Would someone please show me just ONE post where anyone claimed that any aiming system would automatically make you a great player?? Where any aiming system proponent claimed that aiming is all you need to be great???

All any aiming system claims to do is to help you to be able to aim the ball and get on the right line to aim the ball easier and more consistently than not using a system does. That's it. I just don't understand why so many of you think that an aiming system is supposed to teach one what patterns to shoot, how to play position, what speed to use, ect. They are totally different things.

If you already make 95% of all the balls you shoot at, you don't need an aiming system. Most of the people on here do not make anywheres near that percentage of shots, and can use some help in that area. The rest of the game, is totally immaterial if you can't make the ball to start with. Once you learn to make the balls, THEN you move on to the other aspects of the game.
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I agree. But, the way these things are presented, it infers that there's some magical way to play that we should know and learn. Not all things work the same for each person under pressure. If you learn what works for you... it's your system.
 
exoldschoolpro said:
Yes, if craw doesn't want to play them some i will! Look,its all about practice,hitting ball after ball until you learn from mistakes.Its trying to repeat what you have learned through trial and error from hitting many many balls. There is no short cuts that will make you a great player. Yes,if your a beginner someone can teach you the basic's,but you still have to hit many balls. Also,only a very small percent will ever play at a high level reguardless of how many balls they hit. Thats just reality.People tend to have a certain level they reach at everything. I would also say every top player made pool their main thing in life when learning to play. How many can spend 50hrs a day hitting balls or playing other people? looking at these aiming systems post after being away from pool for 15 yrs one would even wonder if they were talking about pool in many post.Its like some are living in a matrix. Has anyone even talked about this aiming system when using a 1/2 tip of english?how about a tip,a tip and a 1/2 and two tips? You think the cueball will roll the same way when shooting easy with extreme middle right or left? I still likes craws aiming system better than any i've heard,and what happened to that thread?
Click to expand...

And so what's the problem with people wanting to talk about different aspects of pool.

You handle claims that you are a former pro player. Well I will take you at your word and ask you flat out if you or any of your fellow professional players ever use or used ANY systems for aiming, kicking or banking?

I can make any shot on the pool table using any one of several ways to aim and any "tips of english"

If anyone on AZB wants to bet me then we can stack it and do a webcast where I will make any makeable shot with spin using the CTE method to aim within three tries. I say three because I know people are going to come up with a bunch of near impossible shots to claim it doesn't work.

If you saw some of the shots I came with last night......

Well it doesn't matter. You all keep believing that someone can learn it all by just banging away and I will continue to treasure the shortcuts I have learned from people Rafael Martinez, Jose Parica, Grady Matthews, Danny Medina, Dave Matlock, Jimmy Reid and other top pros I have been fortunate enough to learn from in my life.

I am honestly not sure WHAT you all want to see on AZ - like Neil says it's very frustrating to see people knocking methods that are designed to help people. Those that spend time thinking of these things aren't out to hurt anyone, Ron Vitello, Hal Houle, etc..

People report having success with these methods and they report being in love with pool again because of it.

So many on this forum moan and groan about the state of pool and here is something that apparently makes most people who actually TRY IT better players and makes them want to play more. How is that a bad thing?

Sometimes the knock is totally out of control on this forum.
 
I know there are many good players out there who do not speak about the systems they use. We can take someone who used to be the best in the world which was CJ Wiley, he still is a phenomenal shot maker and has a system along with one for banking. I know many good players who shoot by feel also, just tons of table time and hitting balls. I do not read the aiming system threads in full really as I do not want to scramble my brain, I like what I am using and will stick with it because of the progress I am making.

I did hear about Shane saying he uses a shaft method, not sure if it is the same one I have been working with, it has really started to click for me and my ball pocketing is better then it ever has been. To each their own, it works for me. I used to be a feel player guessing where to hit or going off experience, now I know where to hit the ball, I learned this in the past 9 months or so and it feels like I learned a secret. The biggest reason I miss now is not following through straight and also stepping into the shot wrong. It has taken me awhile to really practice it and get it right but it feels good that it has clicked. Us pool players are a strange bunch. :)
 
JB Cases said:
And so what's the problem with people wanting to talk about different aspects of pool.

You handle claims that you are a former pro player. Well I will take you at your word and ask you flat out if you or any of your fellow professional players ever use or used ANY systems for aiming, kicking or banking?

I can make any shot on the pool table using any one of several ways to aim and any "tips of english"

If anyone on AZB wants to bet me then we can stack it and do a webcast where I will make any makeable shot with spin using the CTE method to aim within three tries. I say three because I know people are going to come up with a bunch of near impossible shots to claim it doesn't work.

If you saw some of the shots I came with last night......

Well it doesn't matter. You all keep believing that someone can learn it all by just banging away and I will continue to treasure the shortcuts I have learned from people Rafael Martinez, Jose Parica, Grady Matthews, Danny Medina, Dave Matlock, Jimmy Reid and other top pros I have been fortunate enough to learn from in my life.

I am honestly not sure WHAT you all want to see on AZ - like Neil says it's very frustrating to see people knocking methods that are designed to help people. Those that spend time thinking of these things aren't out to hurt anyone, Ron Vitello, Hal Houle, etc..

People report having success with these methods and they report being in love with pool again because of it.

So many on this forum moan and groan about the state of pool and here is something that apparently makes most people who actually TRY IT better players and makes them want to play more. How is that a bad thing?

Sometimes the knock is totally out of control on this forum.
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I love what you just said. You just made my point for me. You picked up pointers and mannerisms from all of the guys you just mentioned. Quite the plethora of people to learn from. They all use different methods. They don't all use one "system."

So, I'll cherish the things I've learned from Johnny, Coltrain, Earl, Stevie, Tony Watson, and the drunk guy who always taught me the spotshot. See? I learned and compiled my system too.

It's not a bad thing that we talk about the game. It's only bad when some neophyte reads about something that he thinks if he learns in a vacuum, he'll become the next Efren.
 
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