Event promoters need to get a clue.

[Sharkey]

Which media outlet would you be covering the event for?

I fully agree on the way promoters in pool actually "promote". I think that most of them don't really have a grasp of what the word means or how to promote in the finest PT Barnum style. There is a big reason that the stands are full when the circus comes to town.

From a sponsor's standpoint I have to say that very very very very very very very very very very few things make sense when it comes to ROI - Return on Investment.

Having said that though I have to ALSO say that very very very few sponsors will do things to augment the sponsorship and advertise the relationship.

Sponsoring events is only one half the equation. The other half is to budget some money for marketing the relationship.

Predator does a great job of this. Usually they are listed as a sponsor of the event but they are also often present at events passing out cue candy and clothing, they do on the spot sponsoring for TV rounds, they advertise the relationships and they build loyalty.

However it IS really really frustrating when the promoter/organizer won't do anything.

Two years ago we BEGGED the BCA for some help promoting the event in Charlotte. We went out to some pool rooms and bars before hand and did some promotion of the pro event but not nearly as much as we wanted to do. (We were already swamped trying to get our booth ready)

Many many years ago we asked the BCA (not BCAPL) for TWO VIP tickets to the pro event in Vegas to give away as part of our Vacation Giveaway on the NATIONALLY sysndicated radio show John Boy & Billy. For a WEEK our spots ran promoting the Pro Event in Vegas and the all expense paid vacation we were giving away. We spent $15,000 doing that promo and the BCA would not only NOT give us two tickets they would not cooperate in any fashion whatsoever. They wouldn't even let us buy the tickets in a will call fashion. I had to personally go there to the ticket booth and stand in line to get tickets for our vacation winners.

While I am not privy to your conversation with the unnamed promoter perhaps you might want to consider though that the "what's in it for me" could be a way of asking if the media outlet you are requesting a pass for is going to do any plugs for the event beforehand. If so then I'd have to be on the side of the promoter in this instance.

I have done this where we traded promotion on our websites for media or vip passes.

But in general promoters in pool do a really SHITTY job of promoting their events. Then they wonder why they lost money and complain about it.

Well said John! Being a former employee of the one the aforementioned promoters and sponsors, I completely agree. The ROI for sponsorship is almost non-existent. A banner of the web site really does very little but stroke the sponsors ego a little. To get something out of the event you have to be there and have room to promote your company. Most events don't have or don't plan on having room to give to sponsors (without charging them on top of their sponsorship) for demonstration of their product. Like John said, Predator is the only company that requires this at events they are the title sponsors.

Another problem is the event coordinators and players lack of concern as to what they are willing to give back to a sponsor. I couldn't tell you how many request I saw that asked for serious money for sponsorship in return for a banner hanging in the arena, that they wanted to sponsor to provide as well. Then you have the players, To give you an example; How many events have you seen Simonis as a sponsor? Donating all new cloth for the tables so that the players have new cloth to play on. How many times has Diamond tables donated the tables for the players to play on? All you ever hear is players complain about the equipment that they played on! Have you ever seen a player come out and say thanks for the new cloth that was provided and how well it played, or thanks for having a new table, or new balls? You might, but mostly all you hear is excuses why they lost. Regardless of what you think of Charlie Williams, he is just about the only player that does a great job of promoting his sponsors. The rest seem to take it for granted.

I am not saying that it is all the event promoters problem, a lot of it is the sponsors as well. They don't understand how to get a return out of sponsoring an event or don't have the resources to show up and promote at an event (which is where you get your return from).

It would be nice to see someone like the BCA not the BCAPL, come out with a sponsorship, guide line, to help promoters and sponsors alike, since most most or all of the companies that do sponsorship, are BCA members anyways.

That way if I am Acme Billiards, I have a tab on my website that says, "Sponsorship Request Form", which takes them to a form for sponsorship request and ask that the promoter read the sponsorship guideline that the BCA puts out. That way I as a sponsor, have some idea of how I can get return and what I need to be prepared to do, and also what a promoter or even coordinator needs to be prepared to offer in exchange for sponsorship.

By the way I looked over the BCA website while writing this looking for some type of mission statement from them and was unable to find one. If you look under, "about us", all you find are press releases and no direct information about the BCA mission as an association. I would like to see this from them!

 

[LAlouie]

A few of you asked why I felt I deserved a media pass. I can't answer that publicly right now, but I will say that I'm working on something very big,,.

You know what, this doesn't cut it. How often have we heard this angle. More importantly, how often has promoters heard this angle. A man flashing ID from a legit newspaper would get in. "working on something big". Like you're going to change the face of the sport.

I know that's not the thrust of your post, still if there's one thing about pool, it's every man for himself. There's no organization in pool.

 

[lfigueroa]

I am just wondering: what was it that you were offering the promoter? I see that you said you'd "cover" it, but that's pretty vague. I think you need to be able to articulate to the promoter exactly what the "coverage" will be and then why that's a good thing. I dunno -- maybe you did all that, but it's unclear from your post.

I agree, to a certain extent, that media coverage can, maybe, help out the sponsors. But good PR starts with yourself, and if you can't convince a promoter that you offer some kind of ROI for receiving a media pass, you may need to work on that. Sure, if you're the NYTimes, or ESPN, maybe you don't. But if you're just offering online coverage of some sort, I think you need to be able to present a compelling enough case for why you deserve the media pass. It should not be automatic, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

 

[nathandumoulin]

You know what, this doesn't cut it. How often have we heard this angle. More importantly, how often has promoters heard this angle. A man flashing ID from a legit newspaper would get in. "working on something big". Like you're going to change the face of the sport.

Are you sure about that? You somehow know what I'm up to and have seen it first hand? I find that doubtful considering that only a select handful are aware of it.

Besides, anyone who knows me or has seen my work knows that I always deliver. I don't just 'talk'.

Anyway, thanks for belittling the value of my efforts. With such a common pessimistic mentality in our sport, it's a wonder why I even bother.

I am just wondering: what was it that you were offering the promoter? I see that you said you'd "cover" it, but that's pretty vague. I think you need to be able to articulate to the promoter exactly what the "coverage" will be and then why that's a good thing. I dunno -- maybe you did all that, but it's unclear from your post.

You're right Lou. However the promoter is familiar with my work, and was told the details of the project. Had I persisted, I'm fairly sure I could have obtained the pass, however rather than deal with this individual, I opted instead to head elsewhere.

JCIN/Justin commented earlier that he's one of the few that knows the details of my project, and agrees that it has a lot to offer. The promoters lack of sensibility cost him exposure.

 

[LAlouie]

Are you sure about that? You somehow know what I'm up to and have seen it first hand? I find that doubtful considering that only a select handful are aware of it.

Besides, anyone who knows me or has seen my work knows that I always deliver. I don't just 'talk'.

Anyway, thanks for belittling the value of my efforts. With such a common pessimistic mentality in our sport, it's a wonder why I even bother.

Honestly, sometimes I think some people never pay attention to what other people post. You don't have to convince ME, you have to convince the guy you were trying to convince. That was the gist of my post. In a game full of cons, how's anyone going to seperate your request for a press pass from someone who wants a gimme.

And as for your assertion that this supposed media coverage of yours will help sponsors coming back for more, maybe I just don't get it. A sponsor has made a commitment, and that is to help this particular event and get some exposure to the people in attendance. Far as I can recall, that's what most sponsors expect, no more no less. It's a small venue attended by a small group of hard core fans who are already familiar with the sponsor's products. That's the way it's always been and the template has never changed. So now comes a guy with supposed big plans and how many have we all heard this, and he asks for a press pass. I doubt you're going to change the dynamic of how pool is represented. And your supposed media coverage willl be seen by who and will that REALLY help the sponsors?

Your general perspective of pool is correct, but as someone else has already intimated, naive. If I were the event holder, I would have given you a press pass because it's no skin off my nose, but if the event holder didn't know you or your work, why should he accomodate you.

 

[lfigueroa]

You're right Lou. However the promoter is familiar with my work, and was told the details of the project. Had I persisted, I'm fairly sure I could have obtained the pass, however rather than deal with this individual, I opted instead to head elsewhere.

JCIN/Justin commented earlier that he's one of the few that knows the details of my project, and agrees that it has a lot to offer. The promoters lack of sensibility cost him exposure.

But isn't your job, as a member of "the media," to convey why it's worth supporting something (that would include you)? If you really think you could have convinced this guy, don't you have to go all the way, for yourself and those that will follow, and for others in the game to see the good "the media" and "exposure" can accomplish?

It doesn't really matter who else thinks your project is a good thing, if you can't convince the guys running the events...

Lou Figueroa

 

[nathandumoulin]

And as for your assertion that this supposed media coverage of yours will help sponsors coming back for more, maybe I just don't get it.

You just don't get it? Of course you don't. You have no idea what I'm up to, so why should you? All you're doing is making assumptions.

A sponsor has made a commitment, and that is to help this particular event and get some exposure to the people in attendance. Far as I can recall, that's what most sponsors expect, no more no less. It's a small venue attended by a small group of hard core fans who are already familiar with the sponsor's products. That's the way it's always been and the template has never changed.

No offense, but you couldn't be more wrong. A sponsor doesn't care about the couple hundred people in attendance. Those are die hard fans who are already familiar with the sponsor's products, and are already willing to spend money. Chances are this small demographic has already tried the sponsor's product and either already use it, or simply don't like it.

A sponsor really cares about reaching potential NEW customers. This demographic is reached through media exposure (tv coverage, streams, news, promotional content, flyers, etc).

Here's an example. When a conglomerate like Nike sponsors a large sporting event and contributes a hundred thousand dollars, their ROI isn't achieved through selling shoes to the few thousand spectators at the venue. It's the TV, magazine and news coverage that bring the event to tens of millions of fans. That's how they reach huge numbers that justified their investment. Pool is no different...well, except that it's on a miniature scale.

So now comes a guy with supposed big plans and how many have we all heard this, and he asks for a press pass. I doubt you're going to change the dynamic of how pool is represented. And your supposed media coverage willl be seen by who and will that REALLY help the sponsors?

Again, you have no idea what I'm up to, so why do you persist on making poor assumptions? Assumptions are generally in bad tastes, but in this case they're also negative, condescending, and disrespectful. Given my track record, you'd think I'd have earned the benefit of the doubt by now. In addition, JCIN already clarified that my efforts will be of sufficient merit to the event holder, why do you persist on pursuing such doubts?

And why do you keep acting as if one person has to "change the face of pool" in order to merit acquiring a media pass? Exposure is achieved through a cumulative effort, and much of this is the result of numerous sources of media coverage.

Your general perspective of pool is correct, but as someone else has already intimated, naive.

"Intimated"? Are you trying to say that someone else (besides yourself) called me naive? If that's the case, then care to point out what post you're referring to? All I see is a handful of posts that elaborate on my own arguments. I don't see a single one that has outright disagreed with me.

If I were the event holder, I would have given you a press pass because it's no skin off my nose, but if the event holder didn't know you or your work, why should he accomodate you.

I've already said 3 times now that the event holder was informed. He's on a "need to know" basis. You however are not, which is why I'm keeping this confidential. The details aren't relevant to the thread, so let's just leave it at that.

EDIT. Let me just clarify. I don't mean to sound hostile, so my apologies if my written word comes across that way.

 

[nathandumoulin]

But isn't your job, as a member of "the media," to convey why it's worth supporting something (that would include you)? If you really think you could have convinced this guy, don't you have to go all the way, for yourself and those that will follow, and for others in the game to see the good "the media" and "exposure" can accomplish?

It doesn't really matter who else thinks your project is a good thing, if you can't convince the guys running the events...

Lou Figueroa

Again, you're absolutely right Lou, but you're also missing the point.

The issue here wasn't whether or not I could offer anything. That was already clear.

The issue was his inability to understand that media helps deliver exposure to sponsors, which indirectly helps the event, prize purse, and ultimately the players. All he could see was that the media wasn't putting money directly into his pockets.

Also, it's not the media's job to convince the promoter. If a guy shows up with $15k worth of production gear, chances are he's legit and going to expose the event in one fashion or another. Any good promoter should take every possible opportunity to accommodate media. Hell, I've even heard of events that PAY media for exposure.

 

[Celtic]

Could not agree more. No coverage, no hype, no press, no publicity for the sport, and no exposure for the sponsors. The tournament was pretty much one gigantic waste of an opportunity and did nothing for the sport whatsoever. Nevermind Joe Public, the mass majoritty of actual pool players have no clue the thing even took place.

 

[justnum]

This story is classic management where an existing business is trying to be updated by a new person with new ideas. Typically the existing business initially refuses the new ideas. A business will adopt the new ideas after realizing a need for change. Until this realization is made the existing business will continue with the method that is proven and established.

Specifically the theory that big prize money produces big players and bigger audiences. The International Pool Tournament tested that theory. That experiment did not produce the desired results.

 

[JB Cases]

This story is classic management where an existing business is trying to be updated by a new person with new ideas. Typically the existing business initially refuses the new ideas. A business will adopt the new ideas after realizing a need for change. Until this realization is made the existing business will continue with the method that is proven and established.

Specifically the theory that big prize money produces big players and bigger audiences. The International Pool Tournament tested that theory. That experiment did not produce the desired results.

Actually the IPT only proved that you cannot have big money events and then no promotion.

I went to the Mike Sigel/Loree John event in Vegas. Inside the room it was glitzy and well staged. Outside in the hallway leading to the event it was really nice with some historical posters.

However to get TO the event you had to ask many people in the hotel most of whom had ZERO clue that such an event was happening at their hotel. Once we finally did make it to the convention center area we still had to ask for directions and look for tiny signs with the event listed as if it were the Sunday book club meeting. Then when we finally got to the place we had to go DOWNSTAIRS to get there and then and only then did we see where the promotion began.

A mile away 7000 pool players were playing at the APA Nationals. The VAST MAJORITY of them had ZERO CLUE that this event was happening.

Further to that the vast majority of them didn't even know what the IPT was.

- - - the IPT also proved that if the PLAYERS won't get out and promote something then it's also doomed.

Look up the Women's World Cup in Soccer.

That's how you promote and get asses in seats!

 

[JB Cases]

Could not agree more. No coverage, no hype, no press, no publicity for the sport, and no exposure for the sponsors. The tournament was pretty much one gigantic waste of an opportunity and did nothing for the sport whatsoever. Nevermind Joe Public, the mass majoritty of actual pool players have no clue the thing even took place.

Barry Hearn must be laughing his ass off. He actually had a good thing going with the Matchroom produced events.

Moving to the Philippines ended up costing that relationship as the WPA ended up supporting Raya Sports/Yen Makabenta's World Ten Ball (which still has not paid all the players)

Yen could put on the 10 ball cheaper and without Matchroom's rules (like putting the money up in advance).

Under Matchroom the prize money increased every single year until it was $100,000 for first I believe.

The Matchroom 9 Ball WPC had live coverage, was shown throughout the year in repeats and was an awesome event each year. Highly professional all the way.

Now pool has taken a giant step backwards and the really SAD part is that Francisco's first World Championship title probably wasn't even recorded. (hopefully it was).

 

[justnum]

Actually the IPT only proved that big money events with no promotion are unsuccessful.

No link between paragraphs.

At the IPT event with the Mike Sigel/Loree John event in Vegas. Inside the event room it was glitzy and well staged. Outside in the hallway leading to the event it were historical posters.


However to get to the event you had to ask many people in the hotel most of whom had ZERO clue that such an event was happening at their hotel. Once we finally did make (tense disagreement) it to the convention center area we still had (tense disagreement) to ask for directions and look (tense disagreement) for tiny signs with the event listed as if it were the Sunday book club meeting. Then when we finally got to the place we had to go DOWNSTAIRS to get there and then and only then (repetitive) did we see where the promotion began. (arranged chronologically)

However to get to the event you had to ask many people in the hotel most of whom had ZERO clue that such an event was happening at their hotel. Once we made it to the convention center area we asked for directions and looked for tiny signs with the event listed as if it was the Sunday book club meeting. Then when we finally got to the place did we see where the promotions began.

I was aware of another event. A mile away was the APA Nationals. The VAST MAJORITY of them had ZERO CLUE that this event was happening. Of that majority many didn't even know what the IPT was.

- - - the IPT also proved that if the PLAYERS won't get out and promote something then it's also doomed.

Look up the Women's World Cup in Soccer.

That's how you promote and get asses in seats!

The organization of describing the process of the IPT event is great. However that organization is lacking in the remaining pieces of the article. Which point is the strongest for proving the IPT does not promote? Your experience at one event is not strongly related to IPT promotions, it seems more appropriate for a journal entry. Can you post an outline of your argument? It will be easier for me to understand the points you are making.

 

[JB Cases]

Actually the IPT only proved that big money events with no promotion are unsuccessful.

No link between paragraphs.

At the IPT event with the Mike Sigel/Loree John event in Vegas. Inside the event room it was glitzy and well staged. Outside in the hallway leading to the event it were historical posters.


However to get to the event you had to ask many people in the hotel most of whom had ZERO clue that such an event was happening at their hotel. Once we finally did make (tense disagreement) it to the convention center area we still had (tense disagreement) to ask for directions and look (tense disagreement) for tiny signs with the event listed as if it were the Sunday book club meeting. Then when we finally got to the place we had to go DOWNSTAIRS to get there and then and only then (repetitive) did we see where the promotion began. (arranged chronologically)

However to get to the event you had to ask many people in the hotel most of whom had ZERO clue that such an event was happening at their hotel. Once we made it to the convention center area we asked for directions and looked for tiny signs with the event listed as if it was the Sunday book club meeting. Then when we finally got to the place did we see where the promotions began.

I was aware of another event. A mile away was the APA Nationals. The VAST MAJORITY of them had ZERO CLUE that this event was happening. Of that majority many didn't even know what the IPT was.

- - - the IPT also proved that if the PLAYERS won't get out and promote something then it's also doomed.

Look up the Women's World Cup in Soccer.

That's how you promote and get asses in seats!

The organization of describing the process of the IPT event is great. However that organization is lacking in the remaining pieces of the article. Which point is the strongest for proving the IPT does not promote? Your experience at one event is not strongly related to IPT promotions, it seems more appropriate for a journal entry. Can you post an outline of your argument? It will be easier for me to understand the points you are making.

Um, ok, well, how about the point that the inaugaral event of the IPT was virtually unknown to the majority of the 7000 players representing the top of the league foodchain in the 250,000 strong APA who were present just a few miles down the road.

Or the point that even in the host location, a convention center attached to a casino, the IPT event was virtually unknown to the staff or the patrons.

No, I will not post an outline of my argument. This isn't English class.

My point is that the IPT is a good example of putting most of the money into production and not enough into promotion. Even though they actually did do more than most as far as inside the billiard industry went.

But their stated goal was to use 8-Ball to appeal to the masses who mostly played 8-ball casually. My question is WHERE was the marketing to those masses?

Where were the ads that went something like this - "8-ball, the game you played in a bar for drinks is now a sport played by the best in the world, get your tickets now for the live IPT World 8-Ball Championship - - or buy the PPV on Jan 19th......" Or something like that.

Your point is that the theory is that large prize money is what attracts fans. Maybe that was the IPT's theory but I doubt it. I would bet that the majority of people who watch Tennis, Golf, Nascar, etc.... don't even know what the prize money is offhand.

My point is that offering large prize money in an information vacuum is promotional suicide. People are subject to around 10,000 ad impressions a day if I remember right. In an era when sports star salaries don't even make the news unless they are upwards of 30 million a year the IPT would have been foolish to think that a $500,000 first prize would be anything but the barest blip on the consciousness of the people in general.

Had it been me and I had the money then I would have spent several million wooing journalists to get them cover my event. I would have inundated them with the history of the sport and tried to get them to fall in love with the game so that they would be more likely to promote it.

I would have bombarded every news outlet I could with press releases and used every possible guerilla marketing technique I could find. Why do you think that stars go on talk shows? Not because they want to talk. They do it to promote their movies and records and books - because it's part of their contract with the studios that they do this.

I would have recruited an army of paid bush beaters as well as volunteers to go out to every pool room and bar in the USA and hype up the IPT.

These are all things that big companies do to get their message out their amidst the clutter. The IPT didn't do this.

Well maybe they did some of it. But not enough.

 

[JB Cases]

I did however score a media pass for the IPT event

And I wrote a nice article about the experience wherein I was positive and hailed it as the future of pool. I was quite impressed with the event itself once I found it.

 

[LAlouie]

"intimate: to communicate delicately and indirectly"

JAM "welcome to the real world"
______________________________
Whatever, man. i'm questioning. That is all. Everywhere I look in pool, someone somewhere is always whining or griping about things they should expect. Who hasn't heard "what's in it for me" in pool venues...it's maybe the most oft repeated phrase in pool. My observation is simply based on what you say in your post.

If Simonis and Sardo and whoever thinks they're going to reach a new audience through better media coverage, then after you've become rich at this you can come back here and say "I told you so".

 

[JAM]

"intimate: to communicate delicately and indirectly"

JAM "welcome to the real world"

Yep, I had to swallow my pride and let go of my crushed feelings to understand and recognize that pool was, is, and will always be cruel to its own.

No matter what you do for others, to include giving out FREE PRODUCT, TIME, and MONEY, the very ones you help along their way are the ones who will step on you like a door mat. :sorry:

I am sickened every time I go into a casino, as an example, and see the hierarchy of the pool world. The man who's got the big cheese is followed around like the pied piper.

He might be the meanest and cruelest man in the land, this pied piper, and his background might consist of deception and horrible atrocities to mankind. But as long as he's got the big cheese, you can be sure the pool peeps will be following him around like he's a god.

This is what's sickening about pool in my opinion. It is ironic to me how some folks could crucify a man who invested millions of dollars into pool and hail another who's got a track record laced with deception. That's pool. Whoever has the big cheese is going to be the greatest in the pool world, by golly. Hail Almighty Dollar! :angry:

Was that indirect or delicate enough? :grin-square:

 

[lfigueroa]

Again, you're absolutely right Lou, but you're also missing the point.

The issue here wasn't whether or not I could offer anything. That was already clear.

The issue was his inability to understand that media helps deliver exposure to sponsors, which indirectly helps the event, prize purse, and ultimately the players. All he could see was that the media wasn't putting money directly into his pockets.

Also, it's not the media's job to convince the promoter. If a guy shows up with $15k worth of production gear, chances are he's legit and going to expose the event in one fashion or another. Any good promoter should take every possible opportunity to accommodate media. Hell, I've even heard of events that PAY media for exposure.

OK, let's grant that you have something to offer. (Though showing up with a lot of equipment isn't enough, just as showing up with a camera around your neck, or voice recorder or notebook in your hand, or wearing a hat with a ticket that says "PRESS" in the headband.)

IMO, it is your job to convince the promoter. Pool is not big time tennis or golf. It's pool -- and it has been done wrong for so long that when someone has something to offer, it is incumbent on them to be a sales person for themselves and for the sport.

In a perfect world, no, you shouldn't have to convince the promoter -- it should be self-evident that what you're offering will be good for their event and the sport. But that's not the way it is. So all I'm saying is: don't be the sales rep who can't close the deal, and then goes off to the bar and moans, "Too bad he didn't decide to carry our line, because it would have brought in more foot traffic and doubled his on-line sales."

Make your case, close the deal, and do something good for yourself, the promoter, the event, and pool.

Lou Figueroa

 

[tomgearhart]

From A Promoter's Point Of View

I've read with interest all the comments in this thread. As usual, John Barton and Lou come with the most insightful posts. As other posters commented, there are a lot of people that try to scam the promoters into giving them "media passes" that do absolutley nothing in return for them. Other smaller "media people" sometimes feel that their 100 or 200 people who follow what they write also qualifies them (and in a lot of cases, anyone they bring with them) for a free media pass. In smaller venues, it simply just can't be done.

Also, in many instances, the promoters that give the players spouse passes (or girlfriend) see them abused when their friends are wearing them. These types of things happen at every event and have to be factored into the cost of doing business.

My point is: If the promoter gave passes to everyone who wanted a "free" pass, (not to mention their friends) there would be few seats for the paying public.

As a past promoter, I know what it takes to run a high profile pro tournament. I also know that just to add $25,000 to the tournament takes revenue from a lot of sources: banner ads, program ads, vendor booths, intrested sponsors, spectators, deals with nearby hotels to get percentages from hotel room rentals, cue raffles, table raffles, and a whole lot of volunteers that love the game.

But, I ramble on.....

 

[JAM]

I've read with interest all the comments in this thread. As usual, John Barton and Lou come with the most insightful posts. As other posters commented, there are a lot of people that try to scam the promoters into giving them "media passes" that do absolutley nothing in return for them. Other smaller "media people" sometimes feel that their 100 or 200 people who follow what they write also qualifies them (and in a lot of cases, anyone they bring with them) for a free media pass. In smaller venues, it simply just can't be done.

Also, in many instances, the promoters that give the players spouse passes (or girlfriend) see them abused when their friends are wearing them. These types of things happen at every event and have to be factored into the cost of doing business.

My point is: If the promoter gave passes to everyone who wanted a "free" pass, (not to mention their friends) there would be few seats for the paying public.

As a past promoter, I know what it takes to run a high profile pro tournament. I also know that just to add $25,000 to the tournament takes revenue from a lot of sources: banner ads, program ads, vendor booths, intrested sponsors, spectators, deals with nearby hotels to get percentages from hotel room rentals, cue raffles, table raffles, and a whole lot of volunteers that love the game.

But, I ramble on.....

That's a great post, Tom, one which is filled with sound reasoning.

It would not make ANY SENSE for a promoter to hold an event and not make a profit. I personally witnessed and experienced the perks, benefits, and complimentary freebies that were given to attendees at the Glass City Open in Toledo, which are too numerous to list in this thread. Let me just say that some of the pool players were treated like royalty. :smiling-heart:

I have not attended a DCC in several years now, but last time I went, they issued passes for the players and their girlfriends/wives with photographs on it, which solved the problem of passes being given to friends to get "free" admission. I can definitely see where this would be a problem and should not be tolerated by the promoters.

On the flip side, at the Super Billiards Expo, the security for admission in some arenas made it difficult for the paying public, those who held legitimate passes, to enjoy the show. Some of the gatekeepers that I saw seemed to have what I would characterize as "pitbull-like personalities" with nasty dispositions; however, maybe they need to be pitbulls to be gatekeepers, as opposed to a friendly black lab wagging a tail at the gate. :grin-square:

The issue of passes isn't a problem at the Joss/Turning Stone events because they are all free admission. Of course, this is the exception rather than the rule.

To tell you the truth, Tom, I don't know how any promoter makes a profit in today's pool world. I guess, no matter how you slice it, you can't please everybody.

FWIW, I really do miss the GCO. I loved that tournament.