Shane vs Mika..what am I missing?
- Thread starter Moronix
- Start date
It is a two person tournament with a 10k buy in. It is legal unlike gambling were to players post up the money. It is streamed and recorded for later sale for our enjoyment and the production company will make a couple dollars off of video sales. I cant wait for this match I wish I were closer to NYC
Actually I think you have a great question. I also am curious if the players get a cut from ticket sales or revenue from the stream.
Its obvious what the winners cut is but even the loser will get great publicity that their sponsers will like and will help in getting future sponsers for both. So they both come pretty well.
You'll be missing the match if it isn't streamed and you can't make it to the pool room to watch it in person.
The stream is because there is a demand for it. Pool junkies (most of us) love to sweat a high stakes match but logistically, it isn't possible for most to see it when it happens, enter TAR. I believe this is the basic foundation that TAR was built on. Show the action to those that can't be there to see it.
They've only done ticket sales for a few matches so I'm not real sure who gets what amount of the gate. I would guess that the pool room does. They're losing business on most of the tables that will be within viewing site of the match so its only fair that they recoup some costs if possible.
The players used to get a percentage of the ppv & DVD revenue. I believe Justin said that they have since changed that to paying the players an appearance fee. I think low sales on lesser player matches or matches that go late into the night during the week when people won't be able to watch it might have had something to do with that.
Don't forget that TAR has to cover their travel expenses.
All of the reasons and guesses are simply speculation on my part. I haven't seen Justin confirm any of what I said outside of his post where he said the players now get an appearance fee instead of DVD sales revenue.
hdgis1
New member
Well unlike you, some people actually had an intelligent response. What is it about my username that excites you? Maybe you can only read the first 5 letters and not the whole thing. I suggest a remedial reading class for people with learning disabilities. :grin:
You mean you are not 9th in a long line of morons?:grin:
revenue
Probably the players have an agreement for some % of the "revenue". But the revenue is almost nothing. Probably they allow it to be broadcast for the exposure, for the game, and for TAR with whom they are friends. But I am pretty sure TAR has spent more $$ buying equipment and travelling than they have made. They likewise do it "for the game". This does remind me of a personal experience. I am buddies with I. Chavez and we arranged to make a DVD of a money match in Florida. We even got announcers who did a great job. The minimum run to have the DVDs made was 500, apart from paying the guys who filmed and commentated, it may have been another 1 to 1.5k to have the DVDs made. It was really good, I think me and Chavez have sold like 4 copies so far. Also, ask Tony Chohan how much he made off his 1 pocket DVD. The "gate" for a match-up like Bartrum-Stevie Moore or even Immonen and Shane is miniscule, it's not really comparable to say Paquiao-Margarito.
Probably the players have an agreement for some % of the "revenue". But the revenue is almost nothing. Probably they allow it to be broadcast for the exposure, for the game, and for TAR with whom they are friends. But I am pretty sure TAR has spent more $$ buying equipment and travelling than they have made. They likewise do it "for the game". This does remind me of a personal experience. I am buddies with I. Chavez and we arranged to make a DVD of a money match in Florida. We even got announcers who did a great job. The minimum run to have the DVDs made was 500, apart from paying the guys who filmed and commentated, it may have been another 1 to 1.5k to have the DVDs made. It was really good, I think me and Chavez have sold like 4 copies so far. Also, ask Tony Chohan how much he made off his 1 pocket DVD. The "gate" for a match-up like Bartrum-Stevie Moore or even Immonen and Shane is miniscule, it's not really comparable to say Paquiao-Margarito.
I think i bought one of those DVD's. I know i have one.
No, that would look more like Moron IX.
Wow!! You are smart!!!
PS- im on another Forum with Stephen Hawking and he uses the same handle as you over there!!
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Lets face it pool players are NOT smart. Imagine Tiger asking Phil if he would like to throw $1M into a pot and play a match for the pot. They could invite NBC to televise the match and make millions. One will win $1M and one will lose $1M. Yea I can see that happening. And I'm the one lacking brains here.
If they are not getting any part of the proceeds then I will not pay to view it even though I would like to see that match. I don't care what expenses are incurred by promoters or any other parties making money from it. Doing it without paying the participants some part of profits is exploitation even if the participants are stupid enough to agree to it.
They do it for several reasons. One is the promote the game itself as well as advertising for themselves and their sponsors.
Pool and the industry is not comparable to other major sports as the incoming advertising revenue is peanuts compared to the rest of the sports out there.
TAR is done so much for the promotion of pool and the players. It's a small community and thank goodness for them as the coverage for live stream and media broadcasting for billiards is very limited.
Without ongoing efforts from TAR we wouldn't be blessed to have events like this dream match up.
It's obvious that you have limited experience on how the world of pool revolves so we'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Once you mature in the world of pool and money games you'll begin to have a better understanding of the significance of these events.
Pool and the industry is not comparable to other major sports as the incoming advertising revenue is peanuts compared to the rest of the sports out there.
TAR is done so much for the promotion of pool and the players. It's a small community and thank goodness for them as the coverage for live stream and media broadcasting for billiards is very limited.
Without ongoing efforts from TAR we wouldn't be blessed to have events like this dream match up.
It's obvious that you have limited experience on how the world of pool revolves so we'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Once you mature in the world of pool and money games you'll begin to have a better understanding of the significance of these events.
I like how you make assumptions about things you know nothing about.
Just for you I will explain how we used to do things and how we do things now.
When we started we made a deal with the players to split net DVD revenue 50/50 with the players and pay their hotel expenses or a percentage of the gate at the venue whichever was more. In almost all cases the hotel cost more so thats what they got. Our reasoning for this model was twofold. One reason was that we did not have a lot of cash so the dvd revenue was a viable option. The other reason was that we thought by making the players partners with a vested interest in DVD sales they would help push them. For numerous reasons this model did not work.
So we decided to pay the players an appearance fee for playing the matches. It is simpler and they like it better that way. The fee depends on what kind of audience we think the match will draw. Each match is different. We make an offer and the players either accept or reject it. Pretty simple.
We do not and as far as I am concerned will not ever give up a piece of the PPV revenue. That is what allows us to survive, pay off debt, and invest in future events. We dont make the players sign any kind of non compete contracts so if someone wants to put together matches and offer them better deals they of course are free to do whatever they like.
In many of our matches the players entry is staked. The players have a free roll basically. The people who rarely receive any thanks or attention are the backers who make these matches possible. They are the main sponsors so to speak. But unlike most tournament sponsors whose only hope for recouping anything from a sponsorship is some publicity these guys have a chance to make some money if their team wins.
In our matches there are only two people who are GUARANTEED to make money and that is the players. We are usually $3000-$5000 in the hole walking in the door to do a match. This does not include the tens of thousands of dollars of gear we risk when flying or shipping it to events. If the internet connection fails during a match and we have to refund PPV buyers the players still get paid. If a $3000 camera goes tits up and has to be replaced the players still get paid.
We take risks and work hard to create unique events. I do not think it is unreasonable to try and make a profit from that work and those risks. I assure you if doing these matches were extremely lucrative other people would be doing them all the time. After three years I have yet to see another serious competitor in this market. I like to think its because we are pretty good at what we do but deep down inside I think its because most people are probably smarter than us.
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Thanks for the explaination, Justin...now answer the query made on your site...like where I can mail a $25 check in order to watch all three days?
I don't do paypal...and won't put my credit card number on the net...My computer is hackable, I'm sure...my card company's 'puter had damn well better have good security!
Ok, I might have thought the same way as you until I joined this forum in March. Since then I've learned a few things. First off, comparing pool to any other sport(like golf) where the athletes are well compensated is just not a fair comparison. You are correct that if Tiger offered another golfer to throw $1m in a pot let everyone stream, televise, do whatever and not give the players a dime that would be wrong. Pool is much more grassroots than that. The "pro" game is in shambles. Many of the best players in the world still have to have part time jobs or sleep in their car just to make ends meet. I'm going to take a wild guess and say the people who stream these great events are probably not doing a whole lot better. Instead of getting mad at you though I would invite you to watch a free stream by Big Truck, On The Rail or any other stream and check it out. I have never met or talked to anyone from TAR or skyline billiards but I can assure you no one is making a killing off of this and it's all done for the betterment of the game.