Shane vs Mika..what am I missing?

[Chesscat]

Itfroze

It was a good match!! It was at Strokers on the west coast of Florida, and I was so nervous it was unreal. It is a great venue and Tony is a class act.

 

[GADawg]

If I was one of the promoters or players, which I am not, I would tell you that the financial arrangements are none of your damn business.

You can pay to watch or don't, your choice, but nobody else cares.

 

[UrackmIcrackm]

Thanks for the explaination, Justin...now answer the query made on your site...like where I can mail a $25 check in order to watch all three days?

I don't do paypal...and won't put my credit card number on the net...My computer is hackable, I'm sure...my card company's 'puter had damn well better have good security!

At some point in time, you're going to lose the battle in your refusal to pay for things online.

Things might go easier and quicker for you if you set up an online only account & get a visa atm card with it. Open an account to only be used for paypal and online purchases. Write yourself a check for only the amount you need, and deposit in your online only account and then pay online with your visa atm card.

You're asking Justin to have to physically go to the bank and then remember your name and set you up with a special sign on for the ppv which will mean having to contact you via phone, pm, or email on the night of the ppv in order to give you your sign on info (while he's busy as heck setting up the stream & doing tech support).

Sheesh, now that I think about it, he should charge extra for people that pay by check for ppv. No offense but it is a lot for him to do because you refuse to pay online where your payment would be automatic and your sign on into the ppv would also be automatic.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

Lets face it pool players are NOT smart. Imagine Tiger asking Phil if he would like to throw $1M into a pot and play a match for the pot. They could invite NBC to televise the match and make millions. One will win $1M and one will lose $1M. Yea I can see that happening. And I'm the one lacking brains here.
If they are not getting any part of the proceeds then I will not pay to view it even though I would like to see that match. I don't care what expenses are incurred by promoters or any other parties making money from it. Doing it without paying the participants some part of profits is exploitation even if the participants are stupid enough to agree to it.

People like u are the reason I dont frequent az as much as I used to. u should be thanking TAR for putting this match on. Not questioniong theyre business model. Where else are u gonna see a 10k match going on? Ur local pool hall? ESPN? Next time do us all a favor and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.

 

[Palmetto cue]

Thanks

Justin, Tar crew, Thanks for all you do to promote our sport! You guys take a lot of risks to bring these matches into our homes.

 

[book collector]

Shane vs Mika

Probably the players have an agreement for some % of the "revenue". But the revenue is almost nothing. Probably they allow it to be broadcast for the exposure, for the game, and for TAR with whom they are friends. But I am pretty sure TAR has spent more $$ buying equipment and travelling than they have made. They likewise do it "for the game". This does remind me of a personal experience. I am buddies with I. Chavez and we arranged to make a DVD of a money match in Florida. We even got announcers who did a great job. The minimum run to have the DVDs made was 500, apart from paying the guys who filmed and commentated, it may have been another 1 to 1.5k to have the DVDs made. It was really good, I think me and Chavez have sold like 4 copies so far. Also, ask Tony Chohan how much he made off his 1 pocket DVD. The "gate" for a match-up like Bartrum-Stevie Moore or even Immonen and Shane is miniscule, it's not really comparable to say Paquiao-Margarito.

One thing they get is an eyeball from the IRS, make sure to claim this stuff on your taxes everyone , they may not come today or tomorrow but they eventually come for their share.

 

[Ryan McCreesh]

I like how you make assumptions about things you know nothing about.

Just for you I will explain how we used to do things and how we do things now.

When we started we made a deal with the players to split net DVD revenue 50/50 with the players and pay their hotel expenses or a percentage of the gate at the venue whichever was more. In almost all cases the hotel cost more so thats what they got. Our reasoning for this model was twofold. One reason was that we did not have a lot of cash so the dvd revenue was a viable option. The other reason was that we thought by making the players partners with a vested interest in DVD sales they would help push them. For numerous reasons this model did not work.

So we decided to pay the players an appearance fee for playing the matches. It is simpler and they like it better that way. The fee depends on what kind of audience we think the match will draw. Each match is different. We make an offer and the players either accept or reject it. Pretty simple.

We do not and as far as I am concerned will not ever give up a piece of the PPV revenue. That is what allows us to survive, pay off debt, and invest in future events. We dont make the players sign any kind of non compete contracts so if someone wants to put together matches and offer them better deals they of course are free to do whatever they like.

In many of our matches the players entry is staked. The players have a free roll basically. The people who rarely receive any thanks or attention are the backers who make these matches possible. They are the main sponsors so to speak. But unlike most tournament sponsors whose only hope for recouping anything from a sponsorship is some publicity these guys have a chance to make some money if their team wins.

In our matches there are only two people who are GUARANTEED to make money and that is the players. We are usually $3000-$5000 in the hole walking in the door to do a match. This does not include the tens of thousands of dollars of gear we risk when flying or shipping it to events. If the internet connection fails during a match and we have to refund PPV buyers the players still get paid. If a $3000 camera goes tits up and has to be replaced the players still get paid.

We take risks and work hard to create unique events. I do not think it is unreasonable to try and make a profit from that work and those risks. I assure you if doing these matches were extremely lucrative other people would be doing them all the time. After three years I have yet to see another serious competitor in this market. I like to think its because we are pretty good at what we do but deep down inside I think its because most people are probably smarter than us.

lol i think these 2 guy's should be beating atleast 25 or 50 K a man to really make it a match. all there r getting is 5000 thats nothing everyone has played for that amount u know

 

[JCIN]

lol i think these 2 guy's should be beating atleast 25 or 50 K a man to really make it a match. all there r getting is 5000 thats nothing everyone has played for that amount u know

Yeah. I wouldn't cross the street for a chance to win $5000 for three days work. Strictly chump change.

 

[pooladdict]

Yeah. I wouldn't cross the street for a chance to win $5000 for three days work. Strictly chump change.

Totally agree Justin. Especially if that work was doing something I really love and am addicted to..

 

[pwd72s]

At some point in time, you're going to lose the battle in your refusal to pay for things online.

Things might go easier and quicker for you if you set up an online only account & get a visa atm card with it. Open an account to only be used for paypal and online purchases. Write yourself a check for only the amount you need, and deposit in your online only account and then pay online with your visa atm card.

You're asking Justin to have to physically go to the bank and then remember your name and set you up with a special sign on for the ppv which will mean having to contact you via phone, pm, or email on the night of the ppv in order to give you your sign on info (while he's busy as heck setting up the stream & doing tech support).

Sheesh, now that I think about it, he should charge extra for people that pay by check for ppv. No offense but it is a lot for him to do because you refuse to pay online where your payment would be automatic and your sign on into the ppv would also be automatic.

You're right...I'm being selfish. So, rather than go to paypal or use my card online, I've decided to not watch the match...:sorry:

 

[Moronix]

People like u are the reason I dont frequent az as much as I used to. u should be thanking TAR for putting this match on. Not questioniong theyre business model. Where else are u gonna see a 10k match going on? Ur local pool hall? ESPN? Next time do us all a favor and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.

I started this thread with an honest question because I care about players. I am probably one of the biggest pool fans in the world. I travel to the U.S. Open 9 ball tournament every year to see the best play. I enjoy the streaming as much as anyone who tunes in. I appreciate what the streamers are doing and wish them success and lots of money. I simply believe the players should share in the profits from their skills. I believe if not then they are being taken advantage of. That's where I'm coming from. I agree I'm uninformed about the whole process. That's why I asked the question in the first place. I don't care if they are playing for $5k or $5, I enjoy their skills.

 

[Keith Buck]

Thanks for the explaination, Justin...now answer the query made on your site...like where I can mail a $25 check in order to watch all three days?

I don't do paypal...and won't put my credit card number on the net...My computer is hackable, I'm sure...my card company's 'puter had damn well better have good security!

Most banks have credit cards (I think they are called secured cards) where you have to put money on the card before you can use it. They were designed to allow people with bad credit to get a credit card but they also allow you to use the card on the web without risking someone stealing the number and running up a large bill.

 

[Cornerman]

I started this thread with an honest question because I care about players.

You did ask an honest question but you framed it with a very negative spin by asking:

"Then why bother with all the streaming video and ticket sales?"

If you had simply left this one sentence out , people wouldn't have viewed you as bashing moron #9. Or simply left out "why bother" as this definitely is negatively questioning what's going on. I'm sure you didn't mean it negatively, but it came across that way.

That all being said,I hope Justin gave you an answer that needs no further clarification. What is important is that the business model isn't comparable to other sports and it changes as necessary given changes in popularity and economy.

Fred

 

[dardusm]

You're right...I'm being selfish. So, rather than go to paypal or use my card online, I've decided to not watch the match...:sorry:

Even using checks isn't really secure. Anyone that takes a check has the information such as the routing number and account number which can be used to withdraw funds. Using a credit card online is pretty safe. If someone steals your account info and starts using the number just contact the cc company and they will issue a new card. You can dispute any charges before paying.

IMHO, eventually most bill paying will be done electronically. It is now, unless you pay by cash.

 

[Moronix]

You did ask an honest question but you framed it with a very negative spin by asking:

"Then why bother with all the streaming video and ticket sales?"

If you had simply left this one sentence out , people wouldn't have viewed you as bashing moron #9. Or simply left out "why bother" as this definitely is negatively questioning what's going on. I'm sure you didn't mean it negatively, but it came across that way.

That all being said,I hope Justin gave you an answer that needs no further clarification. What is important is that the business model isn't comparable to other sports and it changes as necessary given changes in popularity and economy.

Fred

Hello Fred,
You left off the second part of my question. "What is their cut out of that". The entire paragraph was meant from the players perspective. I could see no up side for them without some sort of compensation for playing in front of an audience (PPV/live). Pool will never be on par with golf/tennis in relation to money made untill someone gets real sponsorship involved. I'm not talking about cue makers or billiard table makers or the other small business sales around pool. Pool needs major sponsors like Coke/Pepsi or Beer companies. Pool players and fans are great sources of income for these companies but they don't seem to recognize this. I believe there are more pool players in the U.S. than golfers but car manufacturers and many other companies including the ones I listed above are standing in line to advertise and put money into golf. Everyone is left to their own guess as to why the pool industry can't get the same interest. I have my own opinion on that too but will not start another thread.

 

[Majic]

The way I read it, they both have to put up $10k and the winner gets the $20k. Then why bother with all the streaming video and ticket sales? What is their cut out of that?

Don't ya think TAR has a right to earn a living? And why should they share any contractual info with you or anyone else as to how the players are being paid. This should be entertainment, and not a kangaroo court.

 

[justadub]

You're right...I'm being selfish. So, rather than go to paypal or use my card online, I've decided to not watch the match...:sorry:

There a several wise-a$$ responses that could be made here, though I'll resist. The real answer is that you're not being selfish, you're being closed-minded, and robbing yourself of the opportunity to watch a fantastic event because of your paranoia-er, mis-placed concern regarding internet security. Yes, there are multiple ways scammers can take advantage of people who are careless online, but if that is truly a concern and not just a cranky "I'm not gonna bother with that new-fangled paypal nonsense" attitude, you can certainly protect yourself and still use online services. In addition to the ones already mentioned to you in other responses (which are the easiest to use, IMO) you can also purchase a pre-paid credit card called Green Dot, which uses MasterCard anywhere. There is a service fee involved, I think $9.99 to set it up, and $4.99 each time you refill it. I know people who use them extensively for their eBay purchasing, with no worries whatsoever. Personally, I use a debit card through my bank with no over-draft ability, so it can only use what's in the account at that time.

Taking a check is more than an inconvenience in todays world, pretty much anywhere but brick and mortar retail. And even that is becoming more rare. I'm quite surprised banks aren't making their use more difficult than they currently are.

You are cutting off your nose to spite your face, sir. There are easy and secure options available to you. And a whole world awaits you out here in the wild, wild internet.

 

[sjharr]

I like how you make assumptions about things you know nothing about.

Just for you I will explain how we used to do things and how we do things now.

When we started we made a deal with the players to split net DVD revenue 50/50 with the players and pay their hotel expenses or a percentage of the gate at the venue whichever was more. In almost all cases the hotel cost more so thats what they got. Our reasoning for this model was twofold. One reason was that we did not have a lot of cash so the dvd revenue was a viable option. The other reason was that we thought by making the players partners with a vested interest in DVD sales they would help push them. For numerous reasons this model did not work.

So we decided to pay the players an appearance fee for playing the matches. It is simpler and they like it better that way. The fee depends on what kind of audience we think the match will draw. Each match is different. We make an offer and the players either accept or reject it. Pretty simple.

We do not and as far as I am concerned will not ever give up a piece of the PPV revenue. That is what allows us to survive, pay off debt, and invest in future events. We dont make the players sign any kind of non compete contracts so if someone wants to put together matches and offer them better deals they of course are free to do whatever they like.

In many of our matches the players entry is staked. The players have a free roll basically. The people who rarely receive any thanks or attention are the backers who make these matches possible. They are the main sponsors so to speak. But unlike most tournament sponsors whose only hope for recouping anything from a sponsorship is some publicity these guys have a chance to make some money if their team wins.

In our matches there are only two people who are GUARANTEED to make money and that is the players. We are usually $3000-$5000 in the hole walking in the door to do a match. This does not include the tens of thousands of dollars of gear we risk when flying or shipping it to events. If the internet connection fails during a match and we have to refund PPV buyers the players still get paid. If a $3000 camera goes tits up and has to be replaced the players still get paid.

We take risks and work hard to create unique events. I do not think it is unreasonable to try and make a profit from that work and those risks. I assure you if doing these matches were extremely lucrative other people would be doing them all the time. After three years I have yet to see another serious competitor in this market. I like to think its because we are pretty good at what we do but deep down inside I think its because most people are probably smarter than us.

Tap...Tap...Tap

From what I have seen, there aren't enough of you guys involved in the industry. Keep up the good work!

Steve H.

 

[master9baller]

Tar

Thank you TAR, I hope one day you guys make a fortune doing this work. Both players and fans owe you big time.

These 2 guys are funny; one is too stupid to understand the dynamics at play, the other is too cheap to part with $25!

There are enough backers and quality matchups to have weekly TAR matches.

How about McCreesh vs Bartrum for $20K each?

 

[Moronix]

Don't ya think TAR has a right to earn a living? And why should they share any contractual info with you or anyone else as to how the players are being paid. This should be entertainment, and not a kangaroo court.

Nothing I've posted here indicates they don't have a right to earn a living. Why should the players take (if there is any) be a secret? Why do you think I have no right to ask? The only Kangaroo court here is being held by people who want to argue about something I never said.
I'm finished trying to explain my simple question.