Why CTE is silly

[peteypooldude]

Then Hal Houle should be the one getting the money from the DVD because by all accounts I've read on this thread, it's HIS "system".

Maniac

I dont think Stan made this dvd with profit being the motive.
Stan put work and money in this project and one has to expect him to recoup his investment. With all the slander-like comments about Hal, I
would think he would appreciate putting these non-sense comments to rest.
And as stated before, You can bet it was done with Hals blessing.
Stan also has a lot of time and effort in this system and project
Petey

 

[mikepage]

So, IOW, you're saying that after all the alignments and pivots involved in Pro-one are completed, the stick itself is pointed in such a way that a straight stroke into "center cue ball" will cause the OB to go into the pocket?

OK I'd like to see a lot of responses to this question

AGREE --or-- DISAGREE
Assuming player can hit the vertical center of the cueball,

Aiming involved two things that are both necessary & sufficient (i.e., these two things and only these two things).

(1) recognize the line

(2) place the bridge on it.

Any aiming advice that doesn't help either (1) or (2) is at best superfluous and more generally harmful.

 

[Neil]

Thanks. I VERY MUCH appreciate you being upfront about this. You must know that there has been a lot of vagueness in CTE discussions.

My question is this: Don't you agree that people IN THE PAST have made the impression that with CTE "it's not necessary" to "know where the pocket is?"

I can assure you (as a "naysayer") that the main complaint or question that arises from my side is the implication that CTE can produce a "shot solution" by ONLY dealing with the OB and CB. That (as I've insisted before) is mathematically impossible.

Instead of puting words in others mouths, why not just READ what has been stated. NO ONE has said that you NEVER need to know where the pocket is, and you know that. What they HAVE said, is that once you know by looking at the pocket whether you want to aim thick or thin, THEN you don't need the pocket anymore.

Something else- you and others keep slamming posters on here for not giving up all the info they have on CTE to the forums. I have a question for you- when you go to the shoe store, do you complain to them about not having any suit coats there? And then demand that they get you some, and when they won't, do you then argue that you now don't believe suit coats are even real??

If you want to know CTE, go to where you can get it. Stan, Spidey, or Hal. Otherwise, quit complaining about it not being here.

 

[LAMas]

So the laser beam goes from CB center to OB edge, right?


In other words, a parallel beam, but pointing at the OB center, right?


If the two beams are parallel, then they're an equal distance apart all the way along, right? That's the definition of parallel. We know the far ends are 1 1/8" apart because that's how far it is from the edge of the OB to its center. Then the near ends must also be 1 1/8" apart or they're not parallel. How large or small the OB looks to you has nothing to do with it.


There's no such thing as "parallel, but". Lines are either parallel (equidistant all along their lengths) or they aren't.

pj
chgo

Only when viewed from above the table in 2 demension.

Go buy a cylindrical laser pointer from Office Depot and try my experiment (3D).

You may have an epiphany.

There needs to be a paradigm shift here.

If not, we agree to disagree.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

There's no such thing as "parallel, but". Lines are either parallel (equidistant all along their lengths) or they aren't.

pj
chgo

LAMas:
Only when viewed from above the table in 2 demension.

Sorry, that's simply not true.

Parallel is reality. Your perspective ("vanishing point") view of it is illusion.

If you position two laser beams so that they just graze the left and right edges of both a CB and an OB behind it, the beams will remain parallel no matter how close or far apart the two balls are. From your perspective behind the CB they appear to converge in the distance (like parallel train tracks), but they don't really do that.

This is pretty basic.

Go buy a cylindrical laser pointer from Office Depot and try my experiment (3D).

You may have an epiphany.

You clearly have not done this.

This is a perfect example of why CTE doesn't need to be tried by everybody to know how it can and can't work. The visualizations are as simple as this, yet lots of people just can't see them without rolling a laser pointer around.


pj
chgo

 

[dorabelle]

CTE the movie!!! Hey, could yall make this into a movie so we can understand whats going on?

 

[lfigueroa]

I have always liked jabbing back and forth with you Lou, But Dam
Stan IS one of if not the top instructor in the US. He is not
pulling some scheme to make money. Look at Landon,VERY respectful
young man. Not the son of a snake oil salesman . TRY and be respectful
because he would show you the same courtesy.


Me thinks lou; is
off hismedss againloll

I'm sure I have acknowledged at least one time that Stan is a respected instructor. And I'm not saying he's pulling a scam, just that with all the ridiculous claims about CTE out there: buyer beware. And I'm sure Landon is a respectful young man. And your family is probably great too. I bet (beside him) even everyone in Spider's family is nice Even my kids (if there's any out there :-o would be sweet as peaches. Hell, let's all just sing a round of Kumbaya (or Alice's Restaurant)!

Lou Figueroa
with four part harmony

 

[lfigueroa]

The DVD will stand on its own....for viewers that have a sincere motivation to learn Basic CTE and PRO ONE.

Keep in mind...real learning comes from one's own experience at the table. No one will watch the DVD and proclaim that they have it. It requires going to the table and creating experiences.

I won't turn my back on anyone that needs a personal boost after viewing the DVD whether by phone or in person.

Stan

OK. We're "creating experiences" now. Sounds very "Kodak moment" or Disney-like I guess we all just wait for the DVD to drop.

Lou Figueroa
where is the bait
to place upon
my breath

 

[lfigueroa]

AMEN.....SPF=randyg

Amen and amen, brother Randy! I agree with all 10 of them too.

Lou Figueroa
except #9

 

[LAMas]

Sorry, that's simply not true.

Parallel is reality. Your perspective ("vanishing point") view of it is illusion.

If you position two laser beams so that they just graze the left and right edges of both a CB and an OB behind it, the beams will remain parallel no matter how close or far apart the two balls are. From your perspective behind the CB they appear to converge in the distance (like parallel train tracks), but they don't really do that.

This is pretty basic.


You clearly have not done this.

This is a perfect example of why CTE doesn't need to be tried by everybody to know how it can and can't work. The visualizations are as simple as this, yet lots of people just can't see them without rolling a laser pointer around.


pj
chgo

That is not true.

I bought a cylindirical laser pointer and have rolled it while it was pointed at the edge of the OB down table, 7 feet or so, to it's center and the distance that it rolled was less that 1/2 the diameter of a CB or less than 1.125".

You clearly haven't done this.

 

[sfleinen]

CTE the movie!!! Hey, could yall make this into a movie so we can understand whats going on?

Hey, Fred Bentivegna did it via the movie follow-on to his book, Banking with the Beard. (And I can attest that Freddy's products are GREAT!) Heck, why not do the same for CTE?

With Stan's DVD coming out first, perhaps we can read into this and surmise that a book will follow the DVD, seemingly reverse-order from how Freddy the Beard did his?

Good stuff,
-Sean

 

[justadub]

Lou Figueroa
with four part harmony

And feeling!

I just wanna go sit on the Group W bench and play with the crayons...

Thanksgiving is almost here, after all! Thanks, Lou.

"You can get anything you want, at Alice's resteraunt (excepting Alice)"

I'll be humming that all night now!

 

[GetMeThere]

OK I'd like to see a lot of responses to this question

AGREE --or-- DISAGREE
Assuming player can hit the vertical center of the cueball,

Aiming involved two things that are both necessary & sufficient (i.e., these two things and only these two things).

(1) recognize the line

(2) place the bridge on it.

Any aiming advice that doesn't help either (1) or (2) is at best superfluous and more generally harmful.

For me personally, I would disagree.

And I think I see where you're going with this: I hope I don't spoil the game for you.

I don't actually know WHAT I aim at--but I certainly aim at SOMETHING! The more challenging the shot, the harder I stare at the OB. I've never heard of any instructor (and I guess that would include Stan) who doesn't recommend that the eyes end on the OB (with the possible exception of some "novelty" types of shots that require a lot of attention to the CB).

If someone were to set up a magic rig to hold the stick in the perfect line to make the shot, that I could align myself with, and form a bridge to, and then the rig magically disappears and I'm left to make the shot just by using a straight stroke on center CB....I wouldn't be able to guarantee what would happen--especially with a long shot.

By a quick, seat-of-the-pants calculation, with a 6" bridge, a 60" cue, a pivot of the stick that produces only a 0.01" change in hit position (basically imperceptible) on the CB would cause change in the hit of the OB of almost 0.1" on an object ball 60" distant--enough to miss most except the easiest shots.

The precision necessary seems to require attention to some sort of "aim" on the OB. If CTE doesn't provide that, then, in a practical sense, it would fall short of usefulness as a shot-making system on a stand-alone basis.

I think Mike makes (and I'm sure intends to make) a good point: a series of cue manuevers (even if they WERE geometrically productive) that only ends up telling you to "hit the CB at center" would not in fact be very useful as the primary tool to make most shots--even if it WERE perfectly correct geometrically. It's necessary to "aim" at the OB in some manner to achieve the accuracy necessary--at least on medium or greater difficulty shots.

 

[sfleinen]

That is not true.

I bought a cylindirical laser pointer and have rolled it while it was pointed at the edge of the OB down table, 7 feet or so, to it's center and the distance that it rolled was less that 1/2 the diameter of a CB or less than 1.125".

You clearly haven't done this.

LAMas:

Careful with this assumption -- many laser pointers are very slightly conical (cone-shaped), with the face-end (the part the laser emerges from) LARGER than the rear end. So when you roll this laser pointer, it rolls in a way that "sweeps" the laser across the object ball, requiring far less movement than if the laser pointer were truly cylindrical.

If you have access to a set of calipers, you might try measuring the diameter of the laser's faceplate, against the diameter of the backend of the casing. I think you're going to be a bit surprised. If you don't have access to a set of calipers, try rolling the laser pointer for a long distance across the table. You might find that it wants to roll along an arc (with the backend of the laser pointing towards the center of the "circle" that would be formed if you had let the laser pointer roll until it forms a complete circle). This is the tell-tale sign that the casing is larger at one end, than it is at the other end.

Just food for thought,
-Sean

 

[peteypooldude]

And feeling!

I just wanna go sit on the Group W bench and play with the crayons...

Thanksgiving is almost here, after all! Thanks, Lou.

"You can get anything you want, at Alice's resteraunt (excepting Alice)"

I'll be humming that all night now!

Since you and Lou want to be funny , Try looking in the mirror
that should be a good laugh. I will be sure to use a different tone for
ya next time. Dont like to throw the 1st stone...But will dam sure throw the 2nd one. Try to stay on topic. Enough soap opera sh1t
Peace

 

[justadub]

Since you and Lou want to be funny , Try looking in the mirror
that should be a good laugh. I will be sure to use a different tone for
ya next time. Dont like to throw the 1st stone...But will dam sure throw the 2nd one. Try to stay on topic. Enough soap opera sh1t
Peace

Uhhhhh.....

I'm not throwing any stones Pete. I was merely singing along to Alice's Resturaunt, a favorite song of mine. Arlo Guthrie (who was born as the same month/day as me, oddly enough.)

If you've ever read ony of my posts here (admittedly a small sample) you'll find that I don't do much mud-slinging. And I don't usually agree with Lou, necessarily.

I just love the song. And that's plenty of common ground for me.

Was I contributing to the thread, nah. Was I trashing the thread or anyone involved, nah. Sorry to offend you, especially since I was only singing along... (I actually am hoping Stans DVD sheds major light on this subject. I don't have any way to contribute to the thread regarding the actual subject matter. I'm not skilled or experienced enough.)

"Walk right in, it's along the back. just a half a mile from the railroad track....." :grin:

And how many Thanksgiving songs are there, anyway? This one, and "Thirty-Point Buck". There. Over and out.

 

[lfigueroa]

And feeling!

I just wanna go sit on the Group W bench and play with the crayons...

Thanksgiving is almost here, after all! Thanks, Lou.

"You can get anything you want, at Alice's resteraunt (excepting Alice)"

I'll be humming that all night now!

What a great song. (I actually got a chance to see Arlo perform it a couple of times.) I'll have to go and pull out the vinyl and see if he mentions CTEr's on the Group W Bench

Lou Figueroa

 

[randyg]

Amen and amen, brother Randy! I agree with all 10 of them too.

Lou Figueroa
except #9

Aw Lou, don't be so hard on yourself.
Let #9 prove itself out. I believe and thats enough for me.....SPF=randyg

 

[LAMas]

LAMas:

Careful with this assumption -- many laser pointers are very slightly conical (cone-shaped), with the face-end (the part the laser emerges from) LARGER than the rear end. So when you roll this laser pointer, it rolls in a way that "sweeps" the laser across the object ball, requiring far less movement than if the laser pointer were truly cylindrical.

If you have access to a set of calipers, you might try measuring the diameter of the laser's faceplate, against the diameter of the backend of the casing. I think you're going to be a bit surprised. If you don't have access to a set of calipers, try rolling the laser pointer for a long distance across the table. You might find that it wants to roll along an arc (with the backend of the laser pointing towards the center of the "circle" that would be formed if you had let the laser pointer roll until it forms a complete circle). This is the tell-tale sign that the casing is larger at one end, than it is at the other end.

Just food for thought,
-Sean

I did that.

It measures at the front .535" and at the rear .535" - the same diameter so it is truly cylindrical.

Thanks for your input.

In my field of electro optical engineering, we are peer reviewed and must show imperical/demonstrable evidence of assumptions.

I hope that you are interested enough to try the excercize.

There are other posters here that are engineers that may be interested enough to try it as well.

If I'm correct, then it goes toward explaining why CTE works for some that use it for they are adjusting to the size of th OB appearing smaller when separated from the CB at distances.

Those that are successful at CTE may have incorporated "this decreasing shift" into their pre-pivot shift while looking at the smaller OB and are thus dereasing the included angle.

The smaller shift and resulting decreasing angle prevents the CB from sailing past the outside of the OB down table.

As I have said before...this is pool and an academic excercise for me.

Thanks for your time....wasted.:smile:

 

[lfigueroa]

Since you and Lou want to be funny , Try looking in the mirror
that should be a good laugh.

No really: do you write your own material?

Because, Dude, that is like some really funny stuff and you could like totally sell that the next time they do a roast on Comedy Central.

Lou Figueroa
CTE is goofy
-- happy now?