Master Cue Builders

[AK-Stick]

Off the top of my head I can think of 20 Mastercraftsmen that id love to have build me a players cue. On reflection at least at this point in time of that 20 i feel that only 4 and possiably 6 of these craftsman could I have build me a simple players cue that I could shoot for 6 months a year, 3 or 5 yrs and if need be sell easily for the dollars invested and probably more than invested; assuming i treated the cue with respect. In no order these are Barry Szamboti,Taz, Dennis Searing and Joel Hercek, the remaining two are Ernie(Gina) and Southwest.
Before anyone jumps me, Schick,Stroud,Hayley,Bob Man,Bender,Kikel,Black,Scruggs,Tad,etc are all MASTER CRAFTSMEN and warrent the public recognition, unfortunately the market doesnt always do so. Remember I am also talking of purchasing the cue from the builder not on the secondary market. I am just curious if the people in the know agree with this or if I am way out in left field.

 

[kvinbrwr]

I agree.

The Gina phenomenon is interesting and unique. With Searing or Barry or Hercek the value thing seems to make easier "sense", to get one from them takes patience or preplanning and they make so few cues that the supply and demand side of the economics of value will always favor then. They build very few so they are harder to get and there are less in the supply chain. That makes sense.

But Ginas are different story. Ernie builds somewhere in the area of 10 times as many cues as the aforementioned makers. Depending on where he is in his cycle when you order from him, a brand new Gina custom built to your specs can run from 3 months to 9 months in wait time. There are very few makers out there that can produce that fast, and I can't think of one that hold their value like a Gina does. I always figure "what would it cost to have Ernie build it now" as my guideline when people ask me what their old Gina is worth. Quite often you see guys selling cues on AZ by other makers, saying that the maker quoted the 8K to make a similar cue today and offering the cue for 5K and waiting. With a Gina, if it would cost 8K to build now (regardless of what Ernie charged when he built it), I will get at least 8K in a true auction on eBay. If Ernie charges 4K for a cue new, I will always get at least that on eBay. Now, if I could only get the guy to give me a volume discount, I'd be a rich man.

Ginas are always worth what you paid. Nice deal, buy a thing, use it for a few years and sell it for a little more (if Ernie has raised his prices during your ownership). Pretty nice.

Interestingly, I think TADS would be the same way (maybe not today when Tad himself it making them) if they hadn't decided to use brokers to sell their stuff. I think if we were buying the cues directly from TAD (like I did in the 70s) they would be another highish volume cue that at least completely retained value if not appreciated.

Tate was telling me he thought Southwests were in this category and I was arguing with him. I know you always could in the past, but I don't think, even with their, what is it ?, 6 year waiting list?, I don't think you can take delivery of your brand new unhit 3K Southwest and toss it up on AZ or eBay and cover your investment. Maybe you can.

Thanks

Kevin

 

[Duane Remick]

Off the top of my head I can think of 20 Mastercraftsmen that id love to have build me a players cue. On reflection at least at this point in time of that 20 i feel that only 4 and possiably 6 of these craftsman could I have build me a simple players cue that I could shoot for 6 months a year, 3 or 5 yrs and if need be sell easily for the dollars invested and probably more than invested; assuming i treated the cue with respect. In no order these are Barry Szamboti,Taz, Dennis Searing and Joel Hercek, the remaining two are Ernie(Gina) and Southwest.
Before anyone jumps me, Schick,Stroud,Hayley,Bob Man,Bender,Kikel,Black,Scruggs,Tad,etc are all MASTER CRAFTSMEN and warrent the public recognition, unfortunately the market doesnt always do so. Remember I am also talking of purchasing the cue from the builder not on the secondary market. I am just curious if the people in the know agree with this or if I am way out in left field.

SO far,
My "Players Cues" have been able to pay for themselves... with a little table-time,
My Haley will also soon be paid in full,
Only because I just recently started using the cue...
" Don't know what I was thinking, keeping the cue in a closet :banghead::banghead::banghead:
...DEFINITELY One of the best hitting steel-jointed cues I've had"

 

[01rkclassic]

Tate was telling me he thought Southwests were in this category and I was arguing with him. I know you always could in the past, but I don't think, even with their, what is it ?, 6 year waiting list?, I don't think you can take delivery of your brand new unhit 3K Southwest and toss it up on AZ or eBay and cover your investment. Maybe you can.

Thanks

Kevin[/QUOTE]

You can still make money on South West's,although not as much as before the price increase.I just received a cocobolo into gaboon ebony SW and have turned down offers of $800 more than I payed,not looking to sell it.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=210258

 

[TATE]

Tate was telling me he thought Southwests were in this category and I was arguing with him. I know you always could in the past, but I don't think, even with their, what is it ?, 6 year waiting list?, I don't think you can take delivery of your brand new unhit 3K Southwest and toss it up on AZ or eBay and cover your investment. Maybe you can.

Thanks

Kevin

My knowledge is dated, what can I say? Just a few years ago a $1500 ordered Southwest would easily bring $2500. Now I guess the prices SW is charging are more in line with retail.

Hopefully that will pare down the waitlist. Many of those advance orders only exist to turn a quick profit. Once that disappears, the speculators will stop ordering.

Chris

 

[kvinbrwr]

My knowledge is dated, what can I say? Just a few years ago a $1500 ordered Southwest would easily bring $2500. Now I guess the prices SW is charging are more in line with retail.

Hopefully that will pare down the waitlist. Many of those advance orders only exist to turn a quick profit. Once that disappears, the speculators will stop ordering.

Chris

Chris

01rkclassic has a post right above yours where he says I'm the one on the wrong side of your deal. If you are wrong its because I think "a few years ago" Southwests already cost far more than $1500 from Southwest (again, I could easily be the one that has it wrong). I don't pay Southwests (as a flipper) nearly the attention I pay other cues, not because they aren't nice and high demand (they really are both) but because the markets seems really the same for all of then, pre-date Franklin, new, whatever, from Southwest or secondary, they all seems to be right around $2500 plus or minus a few hundred.

I remember when Ferrari in Italy got fed up with their American franchises
were charging $400,000 for cars the manufacturer was providing for $150,000 and simply raised their invoices and started charging the dealers $350,000.

Kevin