Try having someone clean your balls and let us know,lol.
Archer's View on Diamond tables
- Thread starter tryhonesty07
- Start date
Try having someone clean your balls and let us know,lol.
Lance Link
Banned
Didn't I read something about Archer wanting tournament directors to 'put up the money first' or something similar ? I thought I'd heard or read something like that regarding Turning Stone.
Is he just going off a list of people to piss off ? Who's next ?
Poolplayer2093 has a HUGE point here. I've read a ton of threads about the 'state of pool today', and having a pro player bash one of the largest entities to contribute to this sport's survival seems like it's going to come back and bite him (and by default our sport) in the a**.
Mr. Archer, don't know if you're on here. Don't much care, either. Although I have a TON of respect for your game and your accomplishments, I think you were a little out of line to start bad mouthing Diamond for, as you've stated, "the worst tables ever built".
Yeah. No one, especially a player of a decade, can ever have an opinion about equipment when they dedicate their whole lives to a sport!
Shame on you Archer.
if there really is a problem i'm sure they'd address it but pointing it out in public like that only makes the company look bad.
a friend of mine said he knows a well known player/tournament director that said "any tournament director that says you'll be paid by check is lying!!!!!!" lol a buddy of mine's going to get a kick out of reading that. having the money up front can only help things.
hell if i'm playing someone anything over $20 gets posted. i don't see a problem with having the tournament payouts posted before hand
A couple things I noticed about the diamond tables while playing at Turning Stone.
Balls sliding during pot - I would hit the OB at a slower speed and it would move 6-8 inches before rolling. This would cause me to jaw the ball. I think the cause might be clean balls and really tight, clean cloth, just guessing! I'm sure other tables probably do the same, but these smaller pockets amplifies the skid.
Ball sliding off rail - I seen a few ball hit waaaayyyyy up the rail and slide off rather than bounce. I was expecting the ball to miss the pocket, but it still went in.
Rail play - I had the rails bank short and CB spin not grab. This really changed the way I played, I couldn't adjust!!! Example shot: back cutting a thinner hit to a left of the spot pocket while playing left (inside) to stay on the left side of the spot (wanting to come back down table on left side of centre). If the CB hit the rail at a 10 degree angle, it bounced off close to the same (mirrored) angle instead of checking. You could see the spin (inside) still on the CB after contact. I have no idea why the spin wouldn't bite the rail.
I played on GCIV in Oct. They played way better. I wasn't shooting good at TS, so I noticed the table playability more than usual. This "new diamond rail system" must correct the above issues.
Balls sliding during pot - I would hit the OB at a slower speed and it would move 6-8 inches before rolling. This would cause me to jaw the ball. I think the cause might be clean balls and really tight, clean cloth, just guessing! I'm sure other tables probably do the same, but these smaller pockets amplifies the skid.
Ball sliding off rail - I seen a few ball hit waaaayyyyy up the rail and slide off rather than bounce. I was expecting the ball to miss the pocket, but it still went in.
Rail play - I had the rails bank short and CB spin not grab. This really changed the way I played, I couldn't adjust!!! Example shot: back cutting a thinner hit to a left of the spot pocket while playing left (inside) to stay on the left side of the spot (wanting to come back down table on left side of centre). If the CB hit the rail at a 10 degree angle, it bounced off close to the same (mirrored) angle instead of checking. You could see the spin (inside) still on the CB after contact. I have no idea why the spin wouldn't bite the rail.
I played on GCIV in Oct. They played way better. I wasn't shooting good at TS, so I noticed the table playability more than usual. This "new diamond rail system" must correct the above issues.
Most of what you have described is a new cloth effect.
New balls or balls that have been cleaned with polish also contribute
to these effects.
Lance Link
Banned
poolplayer2093,
Exactly. It doesn't help when a player of the decade bashes a major contributor to our sport.
Oh, I'm not opposed to having the money there. It was Archer's standoffish attitude regarding it. My understanding of his stance was, "Either you have all the money prior to the event or we (pro's) won't play".
I've never played in a Joss event, but I remember reading a thread prior to Turning Stone that pretty much told Archer where to go (phrases such as, "How dare he" and the like), as Zuglan (to my understanding) has always paid his players day of.
Note: I'm sure someone will be along to clarify/correct me, but the essence of the facts remain.
Don't blame you one bit for that. I once played a guy that was spending good money at the bar. When it came time to settle up, he had to make good on the bar tab, and had to 'run across the street to the bank to take out money'. Oh, he ran, all right.
Now, if someone trys to pull that sh*t, my retort is, "Oh, you have to go to the ATM ? Ok, leave your cue here as collateral."
Suddenly they have enough money in thier pocket to pay me AND settle thier bar tab.
Exactly. It doesn't help when a player of the decade bashes a major contributor to our sport.
Oh, I'm not opposed to having the money there. It was Archer's standoffish attitude regarding it. My understanding of his stance was, "Either you have all the money prior to the event or we (pro's) won't play".
I've never played in a Joss event, but I remember reading a thread prior to Turning Stone that pretty much told Archer where to go (phrases such as, "How dare he" and the like), as Zuglan (to my understanding) has always paid his players day of.
Note: I'm sure someone will be along to clarify/correct me, but the essence of the facts remain.
Don't blame you one bit for that. I once played a guy that was spending good money at the bar. When it came time to settle up, he had to make good on the bar tab, and had to 'run across the street to the bank to take out money'. Oh, he ran, all right.
Now, if someone trys to pull that sh*t, my retort is, "Oh, you have to go to the ATM ? Ok, leave your cue here as collateral."
Suddenly they have enough money in thier pocket to pay me AND settle thier bar tab.
I almost never see skids happen on a dirty bar box with balls that have never been polished.
My Aramiths/Simonis at home skid occasionally, moreso it seems when they are cleaner.
I have trouble believing skids are caused by dirt. It is possibly the chemical composition of the balls. I've noticed when they are super shiny this doesn't necessarily equate to super slick.
The static electricity theory may hold some weight and it is very possible to test by introducing as much static to the balls as possible and recording its effect on skid.
My Aramiths/Simonis at home skid occasionally, moreso it seems when they are cleaner.
I have trouble believing skids are caused by dirt. It is possibly the chemical composition of the balls. I've noticed when they are super shiny this doesn't necessarily equate to super slick.
The static electricity theory may hold some weight and it is very possible to test by introducing as much static to the balls as possible and recording its effect on skid.
Well, first off, if Johnny got one skid in a 146 shots, that's not so bad and probably not so far off the norm.
Having said that and having played on Diamonds at the DCC for about ten editions of the event, I will say that just lately, like maybe the last two events, I personally have experienced far more skids during my matches than I would say is average or normal.
So why is that? Personally, I have always subscribed to the theory that skid is caused when the balls contact at a point where there's some chalk on one of the balls. And, it has been my observation that at the last couple of events, the tables get pretty filthy pretty quickly. I mean *really* dirty from all the non-stop play. I have also noted that there does not seem to be as much cleaning of the tables as there used to be. Soooooo, I "chalk it up" (lol, sometimes I crack myself up) to that: the cue ball getting hit thousands of times and the cloth getting impregnated with tons of chalk that the balls pick up.
Johnny is entitled to his opinion and he does have a very nice room down in Atlanta that I visited a couple of years ago filled with GCs, a few of some other table that I can't remember at the moment, and maybe one old Diamond, if I recall correctly. So maybe there's something going on there. But for my money, I like Diamonds and just wish there were more of them around here to play on.
Lou Figueroa
Diamond Experts
Still waiting for the diamond expert to chime in?
Is Archer's supposed comment so out of line that it is not worth even acknowledging?
Still waiting for the diamond expert to chime in?
Is Archer's supposed comment so out of line that it is not worth even acknowledging?
the one piece slate cuts down the promoter's set up and tear down time since Diamonds can be set in place with a fork lift right out of the semi-truck. less set up and tear down means less space rental costs
the promoters don't have to play on the table
My idea for best conditions.
I would never wipe down a table with a damp cloth.Even if the cloth
loses that moisture it tends to dry 'hard'.
I would also like NOTHING sprayed on the cloth.
New balls are too slippery and as they 'break in' they become inconsistent.
Polishing them makes them play like new balls...I like to put the balls in a
ball cleaner with zero polish.
The old time English billiard players insisted that a set of billiard balls
be played with for 3 weeks before being used in a tournament.
Snooker players ask the ref to clean the cue ball often.I think straight
pool players would be wise to do this also...chalk builds up on whitey.
When playing 9-ball I clean the cue-ball every time it is in hand..at
14&1 this never happens when you're on a run.
Diamond pockets...yeah,the balls mark once in a while but so do plastic
pockets....life isn't perfect.
A Diamond leather pocket is the best pocket I've ever shot a ball into...
..they can give every other pocket the wild 4...
..and that's including British leather pockets.
With Diamond now rectifying the 'short' rail problem I feel they're
becoming the best table ever...a little more carom table thinking and
we'll have the best table in history to play on.
Greg Sullivan and RKC had a bit to do with this
Johnny loves GC's that's all there is to it.
As for skid, it's a result of the cloth and balls. Skid doesn't care what kind of table it is...
If I just ran 146 and missed a ball, you better believe I'm blaming the table.
As for skid, it's a result of the cloth and balls. Skid doesn't care what kind of table it is...
If I just ran 146 and missed a ball, you better believe I'm blaming the table.
I noticed cloth cleaned with chalk off has a hard, starchy feel. Maybe chalk off leaves a film that reduces friction.
Skidding of balls...
I have had balls skid on me just as many times as most other players here.
It is my observation and feel that the skidding happens when the Cue Ball climbs up onto the object ball...
I know and have read about the dirty balls and chalk marks and other explinations regarding balls that skid...
It is my feel that when the Cue Ball climbs up onto the object ball, the cue ball may have a little or alot of follow on it. Then the follow will cause some draw or collision induced spin on the object ball. Then the combination of the cueball momentarily no longer contacting the bed of the table, causes the skidding and locking up of the two balls..."before sending the object ball on its way."...on a line not intended or aimed for...
Just another theory I suppose...but this is what I believe and can kinda feel and see when at the table and having had a skid occur..
Also, if the Cue ball has draw on it, then the object ball could possibly be lifted somewhat from the bed of the table briefly as well...
Then again, more funny stuff happening and looking like a skid too...
thanks again,
Mr. J.
I have had balls skid on me just as many times as most other players here.
It is my observation and feel that the skidding happens when the Cue Ball climbs up onto the object ball...
I know and have read about the dirty balls and chalk marks and other explinations regarding balls that skid...
It is my feel that when the Cue Ball climbs up onto the object ball, the cue ball may have a little or alot of follow on it. Then the follow will cause some draw or collision induced spin on the object ball. Then the combination of the cueball momentarily no longer contacting the bed of the table, causes the skidding and locking up of the two balls..."before sending the object ball on its way."...on a line not intended or aimed for...
Just another theory I suppose...but this is what I believe and can kinda feel and see when at the table and having had a skid occur..
Also, if the Cue ball has draw on it, then the object ball could possibly be lifted somewhat from the bed of the table briefly as well...
Then again, more funny stuff happening and looking like a skid too...
thanks again,
Mr. J.
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Interesting the better players having problems with slide.
IMO the condition is caused from new cloth and new balls. Static charge is an interesting concept. I suppose static is slightly levitating the balls? Or grabbing and holding them down?
I love slide playing 3C but pool players generally don't, playing either game. Without slide in 3C there's tons of basic shots that just aren't on the table.
I think one big problem is when we practice it's not on new equipment tournament time comes and it's a totally different game. I feel for you on that point.
IMO the condition is caused from new cloth and new balls. Static charge is an interesting concept. I suppose static is slightly levitating the balls? Or grabbing and holding them down?
I love slide playing 3C but pool players generally don't, playing either game. Without slide in 3C there's tons of basic shots that just aren't on the table.
I think one big problem is when we practice it's not on new equipment tournament time comes and it's a totally different game. I feel for you on that point.
S
skip
Guest
We all have a bad day at work sometimes. Put things in perspective. An why an how could it be the tables fought? By the way I now have another reason or explanation why I missed the shot. It's never the player.