I agree, that would be a great start. Until a multi-millionaire comes along who loves pool, it probably won't happen.
Why Pool is not a major sport.
- Thread starter jimM
- Start date
I agree, that would be a great start. Until a multi-millionaire comes along who loves pool, it probably won't happen.
But aren't we getting close with what already exists... with the Derby, the Turning Stone tourneys, US Open, Masters etc? They wouldn't have to be put on by the same person but rather just networked together. If we keep waiting on the multi-millionaire, we will most likely be having this same conversation in twenty years from now.
I say pool is a sport!
I have to disagree with you, but that is what forums are for.
Playing pool 10 + hours a day for decades has had it's toll on my body, so saying that playing pool isn't psychical and injurious is ludicrous!, my back , legs, arms, fingers, and shoulders say a completely different story, .......
so for pool to have to have injury's for it tobe a sport, it most certainly would be a sport.
I hope that pool will someday gets the recognition it deserves.
David Harcrow
First off, we all need to take a step back and realize this isn't a sport. Lets be honest with ourself here. If you continue to try to be something you are not, and clearly not, you will continue to wonder why.
Why not a sport? If you don't run and jump and need to stretch before hand for fear of SPORTS related injuries, it's just not a sport and nobody will take it serious as a sport. If you are sweating and out of breath playing pool, you are the complete opposite of an athlete... Like me.
That's not a bad thing though. The only "sport" i can think of at the moment that is very borderline is golf. Golf has a physical side but for the most part, should be called a game. But golf does well for a million reasons. And few of those are participant exercise.
The only physical part of the game is the "power break" and some don't even have or use one.
I have to disagree with you, but that is what forums are for.
Playing pool 10 + hours a day for decades has had it's toll on my body, so saying that playing pool isn't psychical and injurious is ludicrous!, my back , legs, arms, fingers, and shoulders say a completely different story, .......
so for pool to have to have injury's for it tobe a sport, it most certainly would be a sport.
I hope that pool will someday gets the recognition it deserves.
David Harcrow
possibly
I would offer the opinion that marketing would need to be unified, rules unified, codes of conduct in front of the public unified, payout structure unified(this place pays out this % of prize pool), sonsers unifed and you would have a good platform to build off of.
I would offer the opinion that marketing would need to be unified, rules unified, codes of conduct in front of the public unified, payout structure unified(this place pays out this % of prize pool), sonsers unifed and you would have a good platform to build off of.
pool has nothing for a paying viewer unless that viewer is a stone pool junkie.you got a 4.5 x 9 playing area with some 2.250 balls laying around.only one person at the table while the other looks at the paint on the wall.weather conditions are perfect,nobody is going to tackle you and you cant hit it 300 yards out of bounds.if jesus and satan matched up at madison square gardens and you sold 20,000 tickets at 2 dollars.19,500 would want their money back because they could not see anything.you get 50 feet away from a table you got nothing.you have to put butts in the seats in america and pool dont do it.
bill
bill
This sounds like everyone holding hands and, in unison, jumping off a cliff. We are splintered because we have nothing and everyone is out there searching for "THE SOMETHING". I say that what we have now is better than everyone coming together for the sake of the game. If and when someone discovers a way to make piles of money at this game, we will then unify and rally around that. (I prefer the entrepreneur model).
Last edited:
The Mosconi Cup could have been done better.
The one glaring thing that was missing from the Mosconi Cup was the stats....There were a few comments made, but no stats shown other than the overall score and the match score.
How about showing things like shot % for each team (or even each player)
Kind of like basketball showing 3-point %, shooting %, rebounds, etc.
How about coming up with the pool equivalent of the triple double for a player.
These stats would communicate to the laymen person just how hard this game is at the top level....and I think would draw interest.
You first need a feeder system. Would not make sense to build a college without having elementary and high schools in place already.
Your tone is so similar to my attitude when I left the BCA office during and after they moved to CO. I totally understand how you feel, you've been out there swimming and listening to the fish in the bowl for quite some time. I've been amazed at Pat Flemings sticktutiveness over the years, we'll he's a pool hall junkie so rehab is his only hope.
It's because of he I actually took some TV prod courses at our local college yrs ago, I totally enjoyed doing some voice over on his tapes yrs ago.The Thread starter had this particular line item comment:
''People outside the sport don’t think it is interesting because they can’t tell how hard it is, kind of like chess. If you’ve never played pool, you may think that it is as easy as it looks when a pro is playing well. So, for most people, it comes down to "What’s the big deal?"''
In direct reference to this comment I saw a video piece of Matchroom sports HD production, WOW, the clarity, you can actually see the exact contact spot on the ball if one were to point it out, you can see the chalk dust, ball rotations, eveything. I think this attribute of production can be used effectively if its told/sold by the right commentator (s) and all that goes in to a production. The ball colors are incredible and since pool balls are near perfect spheres HD only makes it better and better. When it comes to those doing the commentary, this person (s) is as important as the production itself. This is a skill few pool players have, the public chooses who's best much like the success or failure of a movie that's just been released.
Hang in there, 2011 feels like times are a changing. Society is getting back to basics, and pool is a basic supple of our culture. We first brought rotation pool the world, we lost touch, the world ran with it and loves it, feels like it's up to us to bring it back full circle.
Last edited:
The Mosconi Cup is completely different from any other tournament for one simple reason....every spectator has a horse in the race. You are either pulling for USA or Europe. You have a reason to pull for one person over another.
Unless you are a die hard pool fan (like AZ members), watching a match on TV between any two individuals probably doesn't draw the viewer emotionally. Yeah, they shoot real good...but in the end, they don't care who wins.
When someone figures out how to market pool in such a way that the average viewer or spectator can take some kind of ownership or personal involvement in the match and the outcome, the game will grow.
Until then, pool will remain a game that most people would rather play than sit and watch someone else play.
Steve
Unless you are a die hard pool fan (like AZ members), watching a match on TV between any two individuals probably doesn't draw the viewer emotionally. Yeah, they shoot real good...but in the end, they don't care who wins.
When someone figures out how to market pool in such a way that the average viewer or spectator can take some kind of ownership or personal involvement in the match and the outcome, the game will grow.
Until then, pool will remain a game that most people would rather play than sit and watch someone else play.
Steve
Overall statistics between players is one thing that is missing from our sport. We did let people know what each players record was so far in this Mosconi Cup (this was done on a day to day and match to match basis) and in previous Mosconi Cups (in earlier matches we talked about this). Also we noted both teams overall record in the previous Mosconi Cups, and how many previous cups each player had appeared in, and their overall records to date. These are about the only pertinent stats we have to refer to.
There was no one to keep track of all the other stats you mention. And I agree that would be a good thing. It fell on the commentators to remember how each player had fared from day to day. My experience of this Mosconi Cup, as opposed to previous years, was that the overall level of play was higher, with fewer errors by both players on both teams. I had a fairly good recollection of which players had been playing well, and who had struggled in earlier matches. I made notes on each match, which I maintained throughout, to refer to.
I also would like to see more records and statistics kept on professional pool. That type of history is missing for the most part from our sport. Even the players cannot remember themselves their exact history playing against one another. They can only give me a general idea of how they've fared overall, and their most recent matches. I did make reference to their most recent matches, for example Corey Deuel's matches in the U.S. Open against Mika and Darren on the final day. And of course, the dominance that Dennis Hatch showed in last year's Mosconi Cup and his victory earlier in the year against Darren in a challenge match.
Bottom line, we do the best we can with the information provided to us, and what we can ascertain on our own. I think a break and run percentage would be worth keeping and I would also like to see Accu-Stat ratings kept on the players during the course of the Cup. That is doable if the producers are willing to hire a person whose job it is to keep statistics. Or someone volunteers to do the same!
Last edited:
A lot of well thought views on this matter, I really learned a lot through this thread thanks.
Pool was always easy to reach by all classes of people.. Thus rich people chose to support sports like golf or tennis which in the beginning were not so easy to access like today by just anyone. Tennis or golf would be in the exact same place like pool today if they didn't have this kind of support.
Snooker in England was created by Steve Davis. While Alex Higgins made the sport famous, Davis was the one that organized the players and management of the sport so that it reached everybody in Britain. Snooker is watched even by old ladies that have never picked up a cue but pay money for tv coverage or tickets to the games!
Similar organized situation in Pool never existed. This has nothing to do with the thinking level of the players but with the attitude towards the game by almost everyone that had an authority in Pool all these years.
With minor exceptions, most organizations always wanted to keep Pool as a "village" when it could be turned into a "capital city" so they could control it for their own small benefits..
Did you forget that there was a struggle for Pool, Billiards, Snooker to become olympic sports? That would boost Pool for sure, and who is behind the negative results so far in a game that millions around the world play???.......
Players have their own share of blame in all this, but this is very minor compared to what the federations have done all these years..
Soccer in Britain was almost dead due to extensive Hooliganism, but they took serious measures instead of waiting for fans to adapt to Budism principles.. Today the sport can be enjoyed by families at the Stadiums with no fear.
In another thread I mentioned that I really disliked the attitude of the crowd in the last Mosconi cup and the presentation of the sport with champions dressed up like Dart players, dancing around like monkeys in victory. It may seem a bit cold to present it in a more classic way and may suit the sponsors to present it like football but if you really want to push it forward and still keep the character of the game you have to invest in the culture of it, don't bring it down...
For e.g. I mentioned I have testimonies that the great Mosconi himself demanded absolute silence when he played and he would not play otherwise. That's one of the reasons he remains a legend and will always be remembered. He truly respected the game from which he earned a living and I wish more champions today would love and respect the game as much as Earl Strickland...
We could be talking about it for hours, these are just a few thoughts..
Thanks again for this thread,
Petros
Pool was always easy to reach by all classes of people.. Thus rich people chose to support sports like golf or tennis which in the beginning were not so easy to access like today by just anyone. Tennis or golf would be in the exact same place like pool today if they didn't have this kind of support.
Snooker in England was created by Steve Davis. While Alex Higgins made the sport famous, Davis was the one that organized the players and management of the sport so that it reached everybody in Britain. Snooker is watched even by old ladies that have never picked up a cue but pay money for tv coverage or tickets to the games!
Similar organized situation in Pool never existed. This has nothing to do with the thinking level of the players but with the attitude towards the game by almost everyone that had an authority in Pool all these years.
With minor exceptions, most organizations always wanted to keep Pool as a "village" when it could be turned into a "capital city" so they could control it for their own small benefits..
Did you forget that there was a struggle for Pool, Billiards, Snooker to become olympic sports? That would boost Pool for sure, and who is behind the negative results so far in a game that millions around the world play???.......
Players have their own share of blame in all this, but this is very minor compared to what the federations have done all these years..
Soccer in Britain was almost dead due to extensive Hooliganism, but they took serious measures instead of waiting for fans to adapt to Budism principles.. Today the sport can be enjoyed by families at the Stadiums with no fear.
In another thread I mentioned that I really disliked the attitude of the crowd in the last Mosconi cup and the presentation of the sport with champions dressed up like Dart players, dancing around like monkeys in victory. It may seem a bit cold to present it in a more classic way and may suit the sponsors to present it like football but if you really want to push it forward and still keep the character of the game you have to invest in the culture of it, don't bring it down...
For e.g. I mentioned I have testimonies that the great Mosconi himself demanded absolute silence when he played and he would not play otherwise. That's one of the reasons he remains a legend and will always be remembered. He truly respected the game from which he earned a living and I wish more champions today would love and respect the game as much as Earl Strickland...
We could be talking about it for hours, these are just a few thoughts..
Thanks again for this thread,
Petros
Last edited:
Attracting sponsors outside the industry
After working to promote a different billiards game for the last 2 years and dealing with some major compaines outside the Billiard industry, I have came to this conclusion........
until there is a governing association that all the pros belong to that has all of them on the same page, dress codes for tournaments-drug testing :smile: and anything else you can think of that will elevate the image of a professional player.........
until there is a professional tour where everyone is playing the same game with the same rules at every tournament durning the year with some type of a "Masters type final"........
until that game has multible players playing on multible tables at the same time for the finals so the camera can jump from table to table creating the much needed drama..........
until that game has a measuring stick so after the TV tournament is over the recreational player can go to his/her table and play the same game and instantly know how they measure up to the worlds best, by shooting a score.
There has to be a common thread between the 1,000 Professional players and the 32 million recreational players that the sponsors can sell their products to before they put any money in the game.
Any suggestions!!
After working to promote a different billiards game for the last 2 years and dealing with some major compaines outside the Billiard industry, I have came to this conclusion........
until there is a governing association that all the pros belong to that has all of them on the same page, dress codes for tournaments-drug testing :smile: and anything else you can think of that will elevate the image of a professional player.........
until there is a professional tour where everyone is playing the same game with the same rules at every tournament durning the year with some type of a "Masters type final"........
until that game has multible players playing on multible tables at the same time for the finals so the camera can jump from table to table creating the much needed drama..........
until that game has a measuring stick so after the TV tournament is over the recreational player can go to his/her table and play the same game and instantly know how they measure up to the worlds best, by shooting a score.
There has to be a common thread between the 1,000 Professional players and the 32 million recreational players that the sponsors can sell their products to before they put any money in the game.
Any suggestions!!
The answer is plain and simple. Look at the number of views this thread has and the numbers of posts. As of right now it's 1096 views and 53 posts. Over a thousand people had nothing to say about this matter.
We sit around waiting for things to happen and when someone tries to step up and help the game, we claim they are just in it for themselves, and no one pitches in to help.
I could ramble on here but I'd just be wasting my time.
Pool will only make it when everyone that plays the game gets on the same page. RIGHT NOW: "WE"RE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME BOOK."
____________________________________
http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
We sit around waiting for things to happen and when someone tries to step up and help the game, we claim they are just in it for themselves, and no one pitches in to help.
I could ramble on here but I'd just be wasting my time.
Pool will only make it when everyone that plays the game gets on the same page. RIGHT NOW: "WE"RE NOT EVEN IN THE SAME BOOK."
____________________________________
http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
I think the lack of organization is one of the main culprits for pool gaining popularity. I had the fortunate experience of going to the US Open for the first time this last year. It was awesome that by Thursday the stands were full. There had to be 500 - 600 or more watching the players. There has been some well deserved criticism of the Open but Barry does get a lot of things right. They ran commercials locally on the radio station advertising the event. It's the first time I've ever heard a radio commercial for a pool tournament. There was local news coverage for the event. It gave me hope for the future of the game.
As Petros, stated, snooker has reached the masses. Pool back in the day, pre World War II was played in front of packed houses watching extremely exciting games of balkline, etc
. It didn't matter. It was the place to be. The old photographs would have the table in the center for the match surrounded by hundreds of spectators. Sell the players as snooker, poker, golf, bowling does to create fans. When there is a pro tournament actually advertise the event. Create a program with players bio and profiles. Electronically send press kits to local stations with free passes to the events. Get creative marketing the tournaments. There are lots of ways to create interest.This organization will need the support of the pool industry first. The industry has every thing to gain in having a national tour. It's a win - win situation. After a legitimate tour is going and successful, then outside sponsorship would be easier to obtain. Look here is our product! With the current economic condition it may be difficult but that will improve in the future.
Use current successful tournaments that already exist to jump start the tour. The organization would be responsible for points, code of conduct, working with promoters to help market the stops, etc. Tournaments such as the DCC, CSI events, BCAPL Championships, SBE Pro Event, US Open, Turning Stone, etc could be used as the foundation for a tour. Down the line, the regional tours could be used as a feeder system, etc.
The problem with the above scenarios would be creating a functional organization. Then, creating the relationship with the current successful promoters. It's a big issue but could work, IMHO
glengarets
Registered
When he's right, He's right.
An obvious thing I overlooked.
As I read this, I realized that most other sports have homes. Basketball, baseball, hockey, football, and many others have home bases. Either cities or countries. There is probably more interest in rooting for his or her city than rooting for the group of millionaires who play for the team. When a player is traded to another city, he becomes the enemy. Most people don't follow the player, they follow their heart. I know that I feel a compulsion to root for the team that I grew up with, even though I don't know anyone on the team anymore. Maybe if New York was playing Chicago or L.A. was playing Houston, there would be a lot more interest in the sport and the players would be incidental, but incidental millionaires. Anyone who plays in a league knows how competitive it can get and there is usually very little at steak. Also consider if there were just a bunch of baseball players playing games haphazardly all over the country and not for you, would you really care?
When you look at it in this light, maybe the type of game has very little to do with the fan support. It is the positioning in their lives. That is why some people who know nothing about football or basketball can be such avid fans. They are rooting for the home team, not the sport or the players.
As I read this, I realized that most other sports have homes. Basketball, baseball, hockey, football, and many others have home bases. Either cities or countries. There is probably more interest in rooting for his or her city than rooting for the group of millionaires who play for the team. When a player is traded to another city, he becomes the enemy. Most people don't follow the player, they follow their heart. I know that I feel a compulsion to root for the team that I grew up with, even though I don't know anyone on the team anymore. Maybe if New York was playing Chicago or L.A. was playing Houston, there would be a lot more interest in the sport and the players would be incidental, but incidental millionaires. Anyone who plays in a league knows how competitive it can get and there is usually very little at steak. Also consider if there were just a bunch of baseball players playing games haphazardly all over the country and not for you, would you really care?
When you look at it in this light, maybe the type of game has very little to do with the fan support. It is the positioning in their lives. That is why some people who know nothing about football or basketball can be such avid fans. They are rooting for the home team, not the sport or the players.
rorywayne
Banned
And one guy posted, the tour should have drug testing. Man, if you did that, with every pro, tested him before he went out and played, you would DQ half to 75% of the field. You could not conduct an event. It is that bad. Now this would be on pot, coke, speed, major drugs like that.
Here is another one for the amateurs and league players.
95% of you daily, do one of the top 10 most dangerous drugs.
75% of you daily do two of the top 10
50% of you daily, do three of the top 20
Now before you go off on me for this one, do take a look at what your doctors and scientists are saying about you. They said this, not me, so dont shoot your messenger here.
No I am not some holy roller bible belter. I also do one of the top 10 daily, and have no intentions of stopping it.
http://www.listology.com/list/top-twenty-most-dangerous-drugs-according-bbc-horizon
Here is another one for the amateurs and league players.
95% of you daily, do one of the top 10 most dangerous drugs.
75% of you daily do two of the top 10
50% of you daily, do three of the top 20
Now before you go off on me for this one, do take a look at what your doctors and scientists are saying about you. They said this, not me, so dont shoot your messenger here.
No I am not some holy roller bible belter. I also do one of the top 10 daily, and have no intentions of stopping it.
http://www.listology.com/list/top-twenty-most-dangerous-drugs-according-bbc-horizon