Why Pool is not a major sport.

jimM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why I think pool has a tough time in the sports world.

There has always been a lot of talk about why pool is not a big money and popular sport. I have a few ideas from my experience with different types of businesses and by being involved in a few different sports throughout my life.

There are distinct differences that I see. The one thing that finally hit me after struggling with this question for years is that there really aren’t any fans of pool. Besides the few who used to play ,and or can’t play anymore, everyone who is a potential fan is a player with his or her own ambitions. This makes it very difficult for any up and coming player to be the the focus of enough fans to make any money or get enough attention to pull major money in promotion deals. Let’s face it, when you look across the table at an opponent, what is the chance that you are going to be wearing a t-shirt with his name on it?

I think the basic problem is that everyone is capable of playing pool, either physically, mentally, or cronologically. This isn’t true with sports that have diehard fans who sit outside a stadium waiting for tickets to watch the game. Even in sports like golf and tennis, most of the fans are outside of the sport and possibly have never even considered playing the game. Michael Jordan's fans were never waiting for him to sprain his ankle so they could have a chance. And, most likely, most basketball fans don't even own a basketball. This situation in pool creates for a lot of jealousy and has very much corrupted the possibilities of pool.

Why don’t industry companies invest? Mostly because they are not interested in anyone outside of the people who are already in their sphere of influence. Why put money into generating interest in the general public when they are only interested in selling to the players.

Pool is like martial arts. Every martial artist thinks that he, and his system, is the best and is not interested in anyone else being number one. That’s why both sports are so disjointed. There really aren't any national tournaments like Golf. Most players don't see tournaments as a business. They resist tournament directors making money. They see it as theft from the pot, when it is actually the reason that no one wants to do it. And once they do, they hold on to it because being number one is the only way they feel that they can survive.

People outside the sport don’t think it is interesting because they can’t tell how hard it is, kind of like chess. If you’ve never played pool, you may think that it is as easy as it looks when a pro is playing well. So, for most people, it comes down to "What’s the big deal?"

Competition for attention is extreme, and for what? So your competitor knows who you are. They're just interested in tearing you down.

You can’t charge pleople to watch pool tournaments in general because the only people who come to watch the tournaments are the people who play in them and they don’t want to pay to see people they play with. How many people do you see at a tournament who aren't playing against the players who they admire?

Yes, players buy DVD's and products from their idols, but that isn't to support the player, it is so some day they can beat them if they meet them in a tournament. Everything that the so called pool fans do is geared to going to the top.

Also, that is a reason that I have thought for a long time that it is very hard to find a good teacher, because in their mind they could be teaching the next person who wipes them out in a tournament. So you only get the general stuff.

No doubt, there are other circumstances which effect the poor situation that pool finds itself in. In other countries, pool has flourished, but I think that the American mind set, as competitors, as well as no interest in National pride when it comes to sports come into play.

Well, what do you think?

Jim
 
it is because of the players, they are uneducated bafoons lets face it. if there were more oscar dominguezes i think wed have a great shot at something.... but there arent.
 
Enzo basically nutted this one.

Pool is a great wonderful game, played by ugly people. Corporate America does not throw money at, or put ugly people on prime time and their name behind them.

KT, did put millions up, and proved, the game cannot be sold to corporate american or to big time TV, nobody wants any part of seeing Earl do a John McEnroe on TV. Kt proved, pro pool is dead, going no where, but back rooms of pool rooms like it was 50 years ago. Its real sad, but that is the truth. :(
 
Why I think pool has a tough time in the sports world.

There has always been a lot of talk about why pool is not a big money and popular sport. I have a few ideas from my experience with different types of businesses and by being involved in a few different sports throughout my life.

There are distinct differences that I see. The one thing that finally hit me after struggling with this question for years is that there really aren’t any fans of pool. Besides the few who used to play ,and or can’t play anymore, everyone who is a potential fan is a player with his or her own ambitions. This makes it very difficult for any up and coming player to be the the focus of enough fans to make any money or get enough attention to pull major money in promotion deals. Let’s face it, when you look across the table at an opponent, what is the chance that you are going to be wearing a t-shirt with his name on it?

I think the basic problem is that everyone is capable of playing pool, either physically, mentally, or cronologically. This isn’t true with sports that have diehard fans who sit outside a stadium waiting for tickets to watch the game. Even in sports like golf and tennis, most of the fans are outside of the sport and possibly have never even considered playing the game. Michael Jordan's fans were never waiting for him to sprain his ankle so they could have a chance. And, most likely, most basketball fans don't even own a basketball. This situation in pool creates for a lot of jealousy and has very much corrupted the possibilities of pool.

Why don’t industry companies invest? Mostly because they are not interested in anyone outside of the people who are already in their sphere of influence. Why put money into generating interest in the general public when they are only interested in selling to the players.

Pool is like martial arts. Every martial artist thinks that he, and his system, is the best and is not interested in anyone else being number one. That’s why both sports are so disjointed. There really aren't any national tournaments like Golf. Most players don't see tournaments as a business. They resist tournament directors making money. They see it as theft from the pot, when it is actually the reason that no one wants to do it. And once they do, they hold on to it because being number one is the only way they feel that they can survive.

People outside the sport don’t think it is interesting because they can’t tell how hard it is, kind of like chess. If you’ve never played pool, you may think that it is as easy as it looks when a pro is playing well. So, for most people, it comes down to "What’s the big deal?"

Competition for attention is extreme, and for what? So your competitor knows who you are. They're just interested in tearing you down.

You can’t charge pleople to watch pool tournaments in general because the only people who come to watch the tournaments are the people who play in them and they don’t want to pay to see people they play with. How many people do you see at a tournament who aren't playing against the players who they admire?

Yes, players buy DVD's and products from their idols, but that isn't to support the player, it is so some day they can beat them if they meet them in a tournament. Everything that the so called pool fans do is geared to going to the top.

Also, that is a reason that I have thought for a long time that it is very hard to find a good teacher, because in their mind they could be teaching the next person who wipes them out in a tournament. So you only get the general stuff.

No doubt, there are other circumstances which effect the poor situation that pool finds itself in. In other countries, pool has flourished, but I think that the American mind set, as competitors, as well as no interest in National pride when it comes to sports come into play.

Well, what do you think?

Jim


Well... what do I think......I think that is the "best" written article about why pool Is what It Is.Dude, you have put in alot of good hard thinking,haven't you? I wish we had somebody as smart as you are, running
my sport, oh say about 20 or 30 years ago.I have been wating that long for pool to "get off the ground"

I have said all along that we needed somebody smart A (BIZ MAN) trying to do It.Not pool players themselves.All they know how to do Is play good pool!! They SHOULD not be trying to run the sport.I think they have just ruined It so far.I don't really have an answer but... I sure know what has NOT worked.We finally have Greg sullivan and the DCC but....He's a REAL SMART pool player.lol John Brumback
 
The bottom line mate is if you don't play the game and have no interest in playing the game, pool is damm boring to watch for the casual sports fan and there isn't really anything which can be done about that.

I don't know hardly anyone that watches pool but doesn't play it

However i know quite a few people who watch snooker but don't play it

The sad thing is pool would get better ratings if you had lingerie models playing it in lingerie (like the Lingerie bowl). Viewers would go nuts when the girls bent over !
 
Budweiser

The bottom line mate is if you don't play the game and have no interest in playing the game, pool is damm boring to watch for the casual sports fan and there isn't really anything which can be done about that.

I don't know hardly anyone that watches pool but doesn't play it

However i know quite a few people who watch snooker but don't play it

The sad thing is pool would get better ratings if you had lingerie models playing it in lingerie (like the Lingerie bowl). Viewers would go nuts when the girls bent over !
Beer is what's wrong with pool! If you can drink while you play, it's not a sport.
 
Why I think pool has a tough time in the sports world.

There has always been...

I will respectfully say that I completely disagree with almost everything you said.

The games lack of success stems directly from the lack of support shown by the pool playing community. We are completely and solely to blame for our situation.

I can think of countless situations where professional and amateur players alike have stabbed themselves and the industry directly in the back. I see it over and over, at major events, and every time I walk into the pool rooms.

It's the only game I know where amateurs players refuse to spend a dollar to support the game they supposedly love. I see league nights where hundreds of players drink water all night, complain about $1 per hour greens fees, the cost of equipment, and continually argue that their recreational league does not have sufficient payouts.

On the professional end you have pros who refuse to acknowledge their fans, greedy player organizations, fraudulent tournament promoters, and players who would rather trash talk sponsors than help improve the games situation.

My apologies for being so pessimistic, but I refuse to shy down from what I feel is the truth. Thankfully I also believe that this whole charade can be turned around. There are a few good people in the industry that I feel can make a strong difference if given sufficient opportunity.
 
John Daly

Tell that to John Daly in golf? :wink:

So true. How about John on your pool team? What a hoot. Guys like that make sports interesting. Like to see some of those pants he wears in a pool tourney! We used to play in yellow shirts in Vegas, and I know it bothered the other team cause it bothered me. A wall of yellow in your shot picture is not good. Ever see Fat Ralph Cortez play. Great player but you can't see much of the match. Don't know how he could play a long session with that weight. Anyone have any Fat Ralph stories?
 
Beer is what's wrong with pool! If you can drink while you play, it's not a sport.

Not on the professional level. You don't see players drinking alcohol while playing.

Darts, yes. They have a pint of beer and a smoke hanging out of their mouth
while playing.

By that statement, then neither golf or fishing can be considered a sport.
Try telling an avid fisherman that fishing is not a sport.

The portable bars at golf courses nail you at just about every hole.

I don't golf or play tennis so the chances of me watching either on tv or in person are nil. I'll watch big bass fishing before that.
I'll gladly pay for entrance to a professional pool tournament.

And to second Nathan's post. The owner of the hall where we play told me that there are people who will bring there own sandwiches and a thermos to league night to avoid buying anything from the hall. I'm sure this isn't isolated to where I live. So the hall owner is sponsoring a team that drinks water. Do you think they will be sponsored again next year? And, these folks are the first ones to complain about anything and everything.

Some people don't have a lot of money to throw around and some overly frugal. I'd think that if you can't afford to have a fun night out once a week, you should stay home.
 
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On some of you thoughts.....I don't think most people buy dvd's because they think they can go beat a Pro some day. I just think they want to improve. I also don't think teachers hold back info in case they come up against their student in a tourny....that is a slam on a TON of super teachers, and most of them post here.


IMO we all think we know whats wrong with the game, there have been a million threads about it. My beef is no one is starting threads labeled....."Ideas on how to improve our great game".......right? It's easy to say this sux or that is wrong, but time might be better spent coming up with a way to improve.

I'm going to go start another thread on a positive note.

G.
 
I will respectfully say that I completely disagree with almost everything you said.

The games lack of success stems directly from the lack of support shown by the pool playing community. We are completely and solely to blame for our situation.

I can think of countless situations where professional and amateur players alike have stabbed themselves and the industry directly in the back. I see it over and over, at major events, and every time I walk into the pool rooms.

It's the only game I know where amateurs players refuse to spend a dollar to support the game they supposedly love. I see league nights where hundreds of players drink water all night, complain about $1 per hour greens fees, the cost of equipment, and continually argue that their recreational league does not have sufficient payouts.

On the professional end you have pros who refuse to acknowledge their fans, greedy player organizations, fraudulent tournament promoters, and players who would rather trash talk sponsors than help improve the games situation.

My apologies for being so pessimistic, but I refuse to shy down from what I feel is the truth. Thankfully I also believe that this whole charade can be turned around. There are a few good people in the industry that I feel can make a strong difference if given sufficient opportunity.
I absolutely agree with you here; top quality post. May I also add that pool hasn't quite seperated itself from the antiquated bar culture like other cue sports have. If you look at English blackball pool in Europe, for instance, you'll see that the players have a completely different level of etiquette and respect for the game, their opponents, their attire, the referee, and the audience are a very respectful lot; all despite the fact that blackball and American 8-ball are nearly identical games. They don't have characters like the ill-demeanoured Earl Strickland in the game-- the organisers simply would not tolerate that behaviour, whatsoever, and would eject not only him, but his unruly fans as well. Now, I have to concede that by moving American pool upscale and cleaning up the conduct, you will risk losing fans due to disinterest: no more playing or behaving rat-arsed! Snooker has faded off drastically in the last 25 years for the same reason-- fans had lost interest and patience largely because characters like Alex Higgins (the people's champion like Strickland) were gone and the game became "boring" but moved up to a connoisseur demographic and sponsored payouts shot up dramatically: £175 then, £250 000 now. It would also help if pool would develop a more centralised ranking tournament system instead of having claimed 'Championships' left, right, and centre. So, yes, you can turn American pool into something more prestigious and, by extension, better paid and sponsored, you must shave off the radical attitude and sedate the game. I'm not sure if the players and their fans are prepared to take that step.
 
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The bottom line mate is if you don't play the game and have no interest in playing the game, pool is damm boring to watch for the casual sports fan and there isn't really anything which can be done about that.

I don't know hardly anyone that watches pool but doesn't play it

However i know quite a few people who watch snooker but don't play it

The sad thing is pool would get better ratings if you had lingerie models playing it in lingerie (like the Lingerie bowl). Viewers would go nuts when the girls bent over !

You beat me to this one.
I was asked the other day why there is no pool on t.v.
I said only pool players have any interest in it at all.
 
Isn't that the same as any tv programming?
People will only watch what they are interested in.

How many women watch Pimp My Car? How many guys sit with their eyes glued to a shopping channel?

So yeah, you're correct in one way, a limited audience so the networks limit the amount of money spent on certian programming.
 
The entertainment factor in pool is very low for those who don't play, probably not much higher than chess to be honest. I know about 2 rules of chess and probably would watch soap operas before watching it played.

When people find out I play pool, invariably they ask what kind of trick shots I know, how do you jump a ball etc. The would be bored out of their minds watching me analyze an 8 ball runout.
 
First off, we all need to take a step back and realize this isn't a sport. Lets be honest with ourself here. If you continue to try to be something you are not, and clearly not, you will continue to wonder why.

Why not a sport? If you don't run and jump and need to stretch before hand for fear of SPORTS related injuries, it's just not a sport and nobody will take it serious as a sport. If you are sweating and out of breath playing pool, you are the complete opposite of an athlete... Like me. :)

That's not a bad thing though. The only "sport" i can think of at the moment that is very borderline is golf. Golf has a physical side but for the most part, should be called a game. But golf does well for a million reasons. And few of those are participant exercise.

The only physical part of the game is the "power break" and some don't even have or use one. Take that away and you are basically throwing darts, beer pong or horseshoes. I guess bowling is right around the same borderline as well. Bowling is about in pools shoes as well though. Maybe slightly better off due to it's structur. See, you walk into a pool room and you might see 5 different tables playing 5 different games with all different rules. Bowling is structorly sound and played the same by children, leagues and pros.

Again, these arnt bad things. It's ok to be a game, like poker or whatever. Can still appeal to the masses if put in the correct light.

A lot of people shun the gambling aspect of pool as they think it holds pool back. I 100% disagree. Embrace it. Gambling happens in tons of forms all over this country. People love gambling. 85% of Americans gamble in some way each month. (I've done the research). The most mysterious part of our game is the hustlers. That topic alone has made two movies great and surged pool in the 60s and 80s, as people wanted to be hustlers like Paul Newman.

I think taking a step infront of the mirror and seeing what the game really is would be step one. To thy own self be true.

Please don't take this post the wrong way. I don't mean to sound negative, I'm not. I just think it's important to find ones self. I was always told, you have to love your self before anyone can love you. Not sure that applies here but it sounds good!
 
That's a good idea.

On some of you thoughts.....I don't think most people buy dvd's because they think they can go beat a Pro some day. I just think they want to improve. I also don't think teachers hold back info in case they come up against their student in a tourny....that is a slam on a TON of super teachers, and most of them post here.


IMO we all think we know whats wrong with the game, there have been a million threads about it. My beef is no one is starting threads labeled....."Ideas on how to improve our great game".......right? It's easy to say this sux or that is wrong, but time might be better spent coming up with a way to improve.

I'm going to go start another thread on a positive note.

G.

It is a good idea to start a thread about positive things to do for pool. I have been doing things for a long time and many of the things that I have tried have crashed. I never could figure why until I came to this realization. This is not a regular business for the reasons that I've stated as far as I'm concerned.

I think the most important thing for anyone to realize when you are trying to improve something, is that you know what is wrong with it. This is one of those situations that you just can't throw money at. If you do, you will lose it. And then it is very hard to get anyone else interested in throwing more money in the same direction.

I think that it would take a major plan and major money to get any kind of good result. One in which people will go out and buy pool tables for their kids because it is worth being a pro pool player. Aside from a few, it has been mostly just a struggle, and not something people and their children can dream about.

As far as the teachers, of course all of everything isn't the same, but I have had the experience and some of my friends have also.
 
Agree with most that's been said. Pool players here in the UK are mainly thick, selfish ego-maniacs, barely able to string a coherent sentence together. They give nothing back to the sport whatsoever - more so the higher up the rankings they are. I appreciate some earn a living at it, so have a different perspective, but the majority are legends in their own lunchtimes, out for what they can get.
 
Now why pool has no money... It's pretty easy to see there is zero structur or organization. There are hundreds of amature tours across the US and none of them help as a whole. The bca/csi/apa/tap are kind of working against each other. A merger to ONE league that connected amatures and professionals alike, everyone working together, would be the structure needed to make pool profitable. A way to grown children into professionals and a reason to choose that path.

But organizations, large and small, make profits. Tours, leagues, etc. They see thier short term gains and don't think about how they hold back pool as a whole.

Think if all the amature leagues (bca/apa etc) came together as one. Formed a structur that would promote growth in pool and take away reasons to sandbag. Get rewarded for moving to the next level all the way up to pro. Monthly large scale tournaments for all levels.

Pool could be saved, but it would take a lot of people working together and putting short term profits aside in hopes of long term profits.

There is a way, just not a will. If I had the money or the investors, I think pro pool could be saved. Until then, we all just spin our wheels and do our thing.
 
I heard frpm somebody once that the reason pool will never be a big money sport in the US is that Las Vegas won't book bets on it. My understanding is that several years back, Vegas was ready to embrace the game, booked bets and somebody dumped, causing some big Vegas losses. Since then, Vegas has shunned the game, won't book bets, and the game isn't going anywhere moneywise because of this. They don't trust pool players as far as they can throw them.
 
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