Question about piloted steel joints

alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I posted a poll in the main forum a while back asking what your faviorite type of joint is. #1 was wood/wood, #2 was piloted steel.

My question is what is the purpose of a piloted steel joint? I play with a Schon, obviously piloted steel, but I've never figured out what that joint type does.
 
alstl said:
I posted a poll in the main forum a while back asking what your faviorite type of joint is. #1 was wood/wood, #2 was piloted steel.

My question is what is the purpose of a piloted steel joint? I play with a Schon, obviously piloted steel, but I've never figured out what that joint type does.
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The main purpose for a piloted joint is to center the shaft to the butt. The fit can be very centered without relying on the fit of the threads to center the shaft to the butt. On a piloted joint it does not matter how much slop you have in the threads it will still center if the pilot is installed true and snug.
 
piloted wood joint?

how about a modified flat wood to wood joint, has anyone ever tried to build a piloted wood to wood joint?
 
Years ago I did a piloted radial and 3/8-10 pin. At that time I think Lambros and I were the only ones doing it as far as I remember. He took it a step further with his Ultra joint and I abandoned the concept. I think Tony Zinzola is piloting his radial pins. Not sure about anyone else.

desi2960 said:
how about a modified flat wood to wood joint, has anyone ever tried to build a piloted wood to wood joint?
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Tony Zinzola

Murray Tucker said:
Years ago I did a piloted radial and 3/8-10 pin. At that time I think Lambros and I were the only ones doing it as far as I remember. He took it a step further with his Ultra joint and I abandoned the concept. I think Tony Zinzola is piloting his radial pins. Not sure about anyone else.



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Tony Does wonderful, beautiful work. they play well too.!
He's a great guy too.
 
Murray Tucker said:
Snug fit between the joint and the pilot.
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If a flat faced joint screws together tight and is properly faced does that accomplish the same thing as a piloted joint? I still don't entirely understand the advantage of the pilot.
 
The pilots only purpose in life it to locate the shaft. With a metal screw and a metal insert there is no way to make the fit tight enough to locate the shaft with just the threads without fear of galling. With the big pins the wood is threaded and can be made snug so that they locate the shaft.

In the world of building precision parts nobody uses threads to locate something. They just hold the pieces together.

alstl said:
If a flat faced joint screws together tight and is properly faced does that accomplish the same thing as a piloted joint? I still don't entirely understand the advantage of the pilot.
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skip said:
Not bad for a production cue. That's one of the reasons they hit so well. :smile:
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I like the hit, too, but I wonder how much the pilot really has to do with it.

A customer hacksawed the pilot off one of his shafts when a buddy tried installing it on an 18 pitch screw & tore out the first few threads. He brought it to me to face it off cleanly, leaving a flat face Schon shaft. Once installed, you couldn't tell the difference in the hit between his 2 shafts. Without the pilot, the joint still lined up pretty nicely, though not as nicely as the good shaft.

Go figure.
 
dzcues said:
I like the hit, too, but I wonder how much the pilot really has to do with it.

A customer hacksawed the pilot off one of his shafts when a buddy tried installing it on an 18 pitch screw & tore out the first few threads. He brought it to me to face it off cleanly, leaving a flat face Schon shaft. Once installed, you couldn't tell the difference in the hit between his 2 shafts. Without the pilot, the joint still lined up pretty nicely, though not as nicely as the good shaft.

Go figure.
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off topic but subscribing, sry: Bob, is that a cueball shiftknob?? so cool.
 
KJ Cues said:
FWIW, Schon is one of the few remaining truly piloted joints.
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I make piloted / spigot joints on my cues. I have about .001 inches clearance on the radial fit,the 18 tpi thread secures the 2 parts firmly together.The spigot does a good job of aligning the handle to the shaft
every time.
As for hit, I do not think the pilot matters.The hit/feel comes from the transmission at the interface.
 
Ray Schuler's joint was a wood to wood joint that was piloted. The piloting gives structure to the joint without relying 100% on the strength of the screw. It spreads the load over a very large area. His joint is also very light by using a hollow brass pin and an aluminum insert (NOT stainless steel, as some think).
 
A piloted joint transfers stresses away from the joint pin. A flat faced joint places all of the mechanical stresses on the joint pin. Ray Schuler's joint is stronger than a flat faced joint, is stronger, but weighs less through the use of a hollow pin and an aluminum alloy insert.

Sorry, I didn't think it accepted my first post.
 
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