LOLz, my dad used to live there. He drove drunk through it all the time.
Dress Code for Gold Crown Billiards, Erie, PA
- Thread starter Paul Schofield
- Start date
This just showed up in the Erie Newspaper this morning. Apparently, I gave this guy the boot for a dress code violation in the early 90's when his cross-town poolroom closed. He wanted to try another room at the time and found out we had different rules than what he was accustomed to. One third of the article is devoted to dress (funny). Our dress code spans decades and must be legendary.
http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110106/ENTERTAINMENT1201/301069958/-1/SHOWCASE
http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110106/ENTERTAINMENT1201/301069958/-1/SHOWCASE
Your place looks fantastic Paul. I would like to visit it someday.
I'm really torn reading this discussion, because in many respects I think I share a vision with you about what pool can be. At the same time, I generally react negatively to rules and restrictions. You'll find me resonating to this song (anybody remember it?)
And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you
Chorus:
Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign
I'm not convinced that your "rules" are as responsible for your success as you think they are. You also clearly run a tight ship, provide a classy environment, show respect to your patrons, keep your quality bathrooms clean, expect your patrons to show respect for one another, act with vision in mind, keep angry and disrespectful music from filling the air, and so forth. My guess is all these actions have a bigger impact than do the rules.
We have no rules at Fargo Billiards--just an unstated expectation that folks are respectful of others.
Ding, ding, ding.... we have a winner! :thumbup:
Fargo Billiards is very young. Time will tell if it is a winner. Mike, I hope I am wrong. If you are in business for a while, you may have some very tough lessons coming your way.
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Paul,
You should really take another look at your list. You preach about professionalism, but your dress code is very unprofessional.
It reads like a b!tch list from an old crank instead of portraying the message you have expressed here. First, NO CAPS LOCK. The younger generations especially, see caps lock as YELLING! It does a poor job conveying your ultimate message.
Second, you list every thing that anyone has ever tried to get in your establishment with. But why? I think anyone that knows you have a dress code isn't going to argue that "SHOELESS" is appropriate attire.
Third, your dress code sign should include the reasoning for having a dress code:
Here at Erie Billiards we strive to provide an environment that respects and caters to our customers. In providing a clean, fun environment for your entertainment, we ask that the customers conduct themselves with respect to each other as well. We will not let other customers sour your experience at Erie Billiards and we ask that you do not sour the experience of others.
Something like that. Now you aren't an old crank with a grudge but a professional organization with a focus on customer service.
Fourth, your list reflects your personal preferences in appropriate attire. You are in a service industry, so it isn't about you. Your clientele should be the ultimate decider of what is appropriate. For one, it looks like you allow people to wear hats. Since you are not going so upscale where hats are prohibited, then what does it matter which way they face? I highly doubt you will find many people (especially under the age of 40) that find a backwards hat any more or less appropriate than a forwards hat. One option is to survey some of your customers (in an unbiased way) about their feelings regarding backwards hats or some of the other items on the list. Again, if you are trying to create a certain environment, it is vital your customers establish the guidelines in which that is achieved.
Fifth, you say you have succeeded because of your dress code. Anecdotally, you have an argument that it has had a positive impact on creating the environment you have. What you don't have and what you can never have is how much that list has negatively impacted your business. This is why you should choose your words carefully so people don't feel like you are being exclusionary.
Sixth, put your dress code on a real sign not a piece of printer paper. You have nice bathrooms, so there is no excuse for having poor signage. If you need a sign for more than 1 day, it should be on the appropriate medium. It makes my skin crawl to see "permanent" signs that were created in Microsoft Word and printed on regular white paper.
My point is that I do not disagree with you having a dress code. When I go out in Philly I know to wear nice shoes, a collared shirt, and no hat. That way I can get into pretty much any bar or club. Many establishments have dress codes and I know that going in. The ones that allow hats do not distinguish between the direction the brim is facing.
You are using you success as an excuse for your business practices, which is a mistake. Here is another idea. Have some people of varying ages generate a dress code for you from scratch. Petition them with some of the items from your list that they don't have on theirs. You will start to get an idea if your ideas of appropriate dress are too stringent for the purpose you are using them for. Your customers go to Erie Billiards because they enjoy the environment you have created. You owe it to them to make sure that environment stays current with society.
I hope you take some of this to heart, Paul. I think your place looks awesome and deserves success. Your long term success will ultimately reside in your ability to review your business practices and adapt when necessary. It is important in a service industry to avoid assuming you know what is best for your customers. This holds true for dress codes, menu items, table rates, everything. Its makes sense to periodically test your policies to make sure they serve the customer in the way they are intended.
You should really take another look at your list. You preach about professionalism, but your dress code is very unprofessional.
It reads like a b!tch list from an old crank instead of portraying the message you have expressed here. First, NO CAPS LOCK. The younger generations especially, see caps lock as YELLING! It does a poor job conveying your ultimate message.
Second, you list every thing that anyone has ever tried to get in your establishment with. But why? I think anyone that knows you have a dress code isn't going to argue that "SHOELESS" is appropriate attire.
Third, your dress code sign should include the reasoning for having a dress code:
Here at Erie Billiards we strive to provide an environment that respects and caters to our customers. In providing a clean, fun environment for your entertainment, we ask that the customers conduct themselves with respect to each other as well. We will not let other customers sour your experience at Erie Billiards and we ask that you do not sour the experience of others.
Something like that. Now you aren't an old crank with a grudge but a professional organization with a focus on customer service.
Fourth, your list reflects your personal preferences in appropriate attire. You are in a service industry, so it isn't about you. Your clientele should be the ultimate decider of what is appropriate. For one, it looks like you allow people to wear hats. Since you are not going so upscale where hats are prohibited, then what does it matter which way they face? I highly doubt you will find many people (especially under the age of 40) that find a backwards hat any more or less appropriate than a forwards hat. One option is to survey some of your customers (in an unbiased way) about their feelings regarding backwards hats or some of the other items on the list. Again, if you are trying to create a certain environment, it is vital your customers establish the guidelines in which that is achieved.
Fifth, you say you have succeeded because of your dress code. Anecdotally, you have an argument that it has had a positive impact on creating the environment you have. What you don't have and what you can never have is how much that list has negatively impacted your business. This is why you should choose your words carefully so people don't feel like you are being exclusionary.
Sixth, put your dress code on a real sign not a piece of printer paper. You have nice bathrooms, so there is no excuse for having poor signage. If you need a sign for more than 1 day, it should be on the appropriate medium. It makes my skin crawl to see "permanent" signs that were created in Microsoft Word and printed on regular white paper.
My point is that I do not disagree with you having a dress code. When I go out in Philly I know to wear nice shoes, a collared shirt, and no hat. That way I can get into pretty much any bar or club. Many establishments have dress codes and I know that going in. The ones that allow hats do not distinguish between the direction the brim is facing.
You are using you success as an excuse for your business practices, which is a mistake. Here is another idea. Have some people of varying ages generate a dress code for you from scratch. Petition them with some of the items from your list that they don't have on theirs. You will start to get an idea if your ideas of appropriate dress are too stringent for the purpose you are using them for. Your customers go to Erie Billiards because they enjoy the environment you have created. You owe it to them to make sure that environment stays current with society.
I hope you take some of this to heart, Paul. I think your place looks awesome and deserves success. Your long term success will ultimately reside in your ability to review your business practices and adapt when necessary. It is important in a service industry to avoid assuming you know what is best for your customers. This holds true for dress codes, menu items, table rates, everything. Its makes sense to periodically test your policies to make sure they serve the customer in the way they are intended.
This is in response to deebee53.
Paul, I think he is right. You should immediately, tonight if possible, take a poll of everyone that comes into your place. If more than 2 of them are Muslim terrorists, then its ok.
If more than 2 of them are hooked on any hard drugs and rob people or houses/bussiness, then its ok. If 2 or more of them are rapists/murderers or like Hannibal, then its ok.
If any of them want to wear their pants below their penis, then its ok and your responsibility to make them feel comfortable, etc etc ad infinium.
Paul you don't have to list all the things you dont want people to wear cause everyone is very reasonable and a mind reader. They are not going to disappoint you. Your past experience means nothing.
AND NO YELLING. STOP BEING AN OLD GROUCH, oh, sorry. And by the way Paul, you are in a service industry and your personal preferences mean nothing. It is your duty and
responsibility to change with society and you have not done that. Please sell all your personal belongings, gather up all your money, and go out and give it to the first really really
bad person you can find. This generous offer is your responsibility to society and will make that person really really good and make the world a better place. IT IS THE AMERICAN
WAY (oh sorry again) to mindlessly throw money at the problem and hope that eventually it will go away. Get with it Paul!
Paul, I think he is right. You should immediately, tonight if possible, take a poll of everyone that comes into your place. If more than 2 of them are Muslim terrorists, then its ok.
If more than 2 of them are hooked on any hard drugs and rob people or houses/bussiness, then its ok. If 2 or more of them are rapists/murderers or like Hannibal, then its ok.
If any of them want to wear their pants below their penis, then its ok and your responsibility to make them feel comfortable, etc etc ad infinium.
Paul you don't have to list all the things you dont want people to wear cause everyone is very reasonable and a mind reader. They are not going to disappoint you. Your past experience means nothing.
AND NO YELLING. STOP BEING AN OLD GROUCH, oh, sorry. And by the way Paul, you are in a service industry and your personal preferences mean nothing. It is your duty and
responsibility to change with society and you have not done that. Please sell all your personal belongings, gather up all your money, and go out and give it to the first really really
bad person you can find. This generous offer is your responsibility to society and will make that person really really good and make the world a better place. IT IS THE AMERICAN
WAY (oh sorry again) to mindlessly throw money at the problem and hope that eventually it will go away. Get with it Paul!
In todays world, like any era of the past, clothing is the first indication of a persons view of themselves. Before a word is spoken, an image of you has been broadcast to all around you. If your business is selling skate boards, rollerblades or leather clothing for motorcycle use, you dress for your clientele. Paul's dress code is correct for the image he wishes to portray to his clientele. Simple answer is, if you don't like the code, don't go there. Don't complain about it! Go where YOU feel welcome.
Wrong. You got the message. You are aware of the lingo being used. So will others of like kind. The message was conveyed loud and clear. Nothing poor about that!
Too many people today try to test the will of others. I've seen players show up to a "professional" event, whose dress code specifically states collared shirt required, with a tee shirt then argue with the TD about the cost of the shirt. The more specific Paul is, the less wiggle room there is.
Why should Paul have to explain to you why he chooses to enforce a dress code? Again, it's his business. If you don't like the rules, go elsewhere!
This is a recurring theme. He knows what has made him successful in the past. Why would he want to survey the people already in his business whether they are satisfied or not. They are there. Obviously on a regular basis. The business keeps growing!
Do you think you can satisfy all the people all the time? Paul has chosen a business path that has made him very successful. His code states what he feels is acceptable for entrance into his business. If you want access, change your clothes. Watch your language. And have fun with others like you. If not, go elsewhere.
OK, I give up. You shouldn't. You should volunteer at no pay to run Paul's business for him. If the business changes and fails, you will re-imburse him for his losses. That's simple enough!
Lyn
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Congratulations! I believe this is the dumbest thing I've ever read in my life.
You obviously have Paul's PRIVATE BUSINESS confused with the PUBLIC LIBRARY.
It would be a cold day in hell that I let the people who came to my business tell me how to run it when they have no investment, and no financial interest in it, and the only person who stands to prosper or fail is me. How ridiculous a statement that was.
Mike, I want to add that if for no other reason, a dress code acts as a filter at the door. If anything can get past my counter, anything can happen in my place.
GM went from the largest car manufacturer in the world to bankruptsy because they did not give the customer what they wanted, they gave the customer what GM wanted.
"What's good for GM is good for America."
Some of you missed my point. I said his dress code was unprofessional, I meant the physical piece of paper not the concept itself. There are better ways to convey your message, that was my main point.
"What's good for GM is good for America."
Some of you missed my point. I said his dress code was unprofessional, I meant the physical piece of paper not the concept itself. There are better ways to convey your message, that was my main point.
No, I think you win the dumbest thing ever written. You are obviously not a small business person.
Do you have any idea why businesses fail so often? Its because they don't give the consumer what they want. Consumers vote with their wallets and their voices. A happy customer gives you their money and tells their friends about how great they were treated. An angry customer tells everyone they will never go back to your place and they spend their money elsewhere.
The small business owner's OWN financial interest (especially in a service industry) is to serve the customer as best they can. Sometimes that may entail relaxing your standards WHEN it can increase your bottom line without decreasing the level of service you provide.
If Paul does a little research, he may find that most people have no problem with backwards hats. Therefore, if he allowed the backwards hat people in he could put a few extra dollars in his pocket without negatively effecting the environment of his establishment.
On the flip side, suppose he finds a good portion of the people he talks to would rather not see backwards hats. Now he has still done good for his business and the customer and can know he is providing the best possible environment for his customers to enjoy.
Keeping customers happy is how you keep a business open. No one denies Paul has that covered, and I applaud him for it. Is success an excuse to stop improving? It shouldn't be.
Can Paul get the exact same message across without be so off-putting? Yes. I look at the sheet he posted on page 1 and felt attacked. It was not welcoming yet this is one of the first things you see when you walk in. Why would a business want people to feel unwelcome when they could feel appreciated instead?
The presentation of the dress code could be improved so it reads more positively without any changes to its contents. The key here is improvement. A nicer sign with the same message is an improvement and it will make the customer experience a better one.
You make up a statement, and you assume it is gospel. Where or how you conclude your thoughts, should be examined closer. You are wrong. The statement is wrong, and simplistic at best.
You're young, and you know it all, just like I did when I was your age, and my father, and his father before him, and no one will change your mind except you, as you get older and wiser.
GM along with all the major car companies were in deep trouble, with Ford being lucky enough to survive and begin to do better simply because of market share, as word on Wall St. of GM and Chrysler P&L faltering showed first.... why?
Because of unions demanding the companies to pay their employees more in wages and benefits than the companies could afford without raising the prices of their vehicles.
As the price of the US made vehicles rose, or, quality suffered in order to continue to raise employee wages without excess price increases in the vehicles, foreign companies, who did not have to pay their employees nearly as much, stole the US market share. This in turn lowered US vehicle sales volume, which exacerbated the problem.
I like the dress code idea. Your not going to walk into a nice golf course with a hoodie, pants half way down your ass and a backwards hat, right?
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Sounds like you are doint well Paul. I like the idea of the dress code. Just as someone said at a golf course, there are dress codes, if you want to play, you have to be in the correct attire. Same at restaraunts, no shirt, no shoes, no service, and the same for work depending on what sector you are in. There are rules everywhere for almost every thing....why should a pool hall be any different.
Keep up the good work Paul
Keep up the good work Paul
No, you are wrong. I base my opinion on the analysis of facts.
Is GM's arrogance the ONLY thing that did them in? No, but it is the overlying issue to their slow decline and failure once the recession hit.
The fact is GM and Ford both faced the same labor situation. Ford worked hard to improve their vehicles' quality and offer models that customers desired. GM did not.
GM needed a bailout and Ford is profitable. No luck involved. It involved good management with a customer focus. Perhaps you should research things more carefully before you assume you know something.
http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/09/ge...bailout-opinions-columnists-warren-meyer.html
http://www.industryweek.com/articles/bill_ford_sheds_light_on_turnaround_success_23201.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Day-You...=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294532965&sr=1-7
I can't find value in anything that you say although I do appreciate your comments. You don't know what you are talking about. I don't lose any business over a backwards hat. Patrons do not get thrown out nor do they leave. They just turn their hats around.
This gives me an opportunity to explain how an effective dress code is administered. The sign is strategically located where no one can see it. It is at belt level (not eye level). Most people don't even know we have a dress code. When a desirable customer comes in not dressed properly, we politely explain our dress code (without pointing to the sign) and we make sure that they feel welcome. Undesirables get a different treatment. We say "there is a dress code here". We point to the dress code sign and walk away. They just leave.
I use all caps because the sign is so small and it makes it easier to read.
Deebee53 advises a sign that says: Here at Erie Billiards we strive to provide an environment that respects and caters to our customers. In providing a clean, fun environment for your entertainment, we ask that the customers conduct themselves with respect to each other as well. We will not let other customers sour your experience at Erie Billiards and we ask that you do not sour the experience of others. This is just too feminine for a poolroom (please excuse my lack of political correctness).
I took a picture of my counter with an arrow pointing toward the dress code sign.
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OK, that is much better than I thought. You had me picturing a piece of paper taped to the counter! Haha.
There is value to my comments and a lot of management study and training behind them. You will never know how things negatively effect your business. How many people will never go (or go back) to your place because they can't wear their hat the way they want? 1? 100? This you will never know, but it is important to understand. The true impact of a dissatisfied customer can never be known, but must be appreciated.
"figures on the most important areas of management are unknown or unknowable, and successful managers must nevertheless manage those areas." -Lloyd S. Nelson
There is value to my comments and a lot of management study and training behind them. You will never know how things negatively effect your business. How many people will never go (or go back) to your place because they can't wear their hat the way they want? 1? 100? This you will never know, but it is important to understand. The true impact of a dissatisfied customer can never be known, but must be appreciated.
"figures on the most important areas of management are unknown or unknowable, and successful managers must nevertheless manage those areas." -Lloyd S. Nelson
Yeah but the cap backwards, droopy pants etc.. is attributed to a certain thug culture. If you had 2 of these and they made the other 100 customers that are "normal" uneasy, then they shouldn't be there.
Put two of those in there lose 5 regulars and the impact will be known immediately. Better keeping what you have than wonder what you lost.
JV