Center to where...Pro what..

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duckie said:
The drawing was for reference only and not a exact placement of the balls. The point is I did a double carom into the side on the first try.

The real question is can you? I have already done this shot, so now yall go do it on the first try. I practice this level of difficulty shots all day long. I really get creativity in my shot making.

It's funny that those that have made the arrow have told me it works perfect. I've yet to hear that about any other training aid. There is nothing wrong with using a training aid when needed, which is no different than getting lessons which is also mentioned more than I have ever mentioned the Arrow or Babe Cranfield.

Also, I nowhere mentioned the arrow as much as CTE, PRO 1 or any other system on this forum. Ever see a thread title The ARROW, nope but there sure is PRO ONE DVD........

Just too funny..... I have nothing to prove to anyone here, I know what I can do and that's all that matters.

Now, go worry about your own shot making.....or lack of it.
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why are you in this thread? what are you attempting to prove here, that you have zero common sense? your inability to understand new ideas? etc
 
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Oh yeah, the real point was to use CTE to make that shot I posted, on a 9ft table.

Thats all I would like to see, a explanation of how to use CTE on that shot I posted.

Simple.
 
if it can be done with ghost ball it can be done with cte! it may be easier to do with gb but can be done with cte. common sense duckie, start using it.
 
duckie said:
Oh yeah, the real point was to use CTE to make that shot I posted, on a 9ft table.

Thats all I would like to see, a explanation of how to use CTE on that shot I posted.

Simple.
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Using CTE I can put the 3 either directly, or off one rail into all six pockets. You try and make CTE look bad by posting a diagram of a ghost ball shot that is impossible, then, when you get called on it, you have to back-pedal. Then you want to know how to aim it with CTE. If you REALLY want to know, then buy the DVD. But, we all know that you don't want to know, you just want another opportunity to promote your little arrow. Why not just start your own thread about your little arrow and see how many replies you get to it??
 
LAMas, thanks for posting the diagrams, they are helpful. I do not see the off set for 1/2 tip pivot. JoeyA or anyone else, successful with Pro1, is it not needed in accomplishing the shots?
 
duckie said:
The drawing was for reference only and not a exact placement of the balls. The point is I did a double carom into the side on the first try.

The real question is can you? I have already done this shot, so now yall go do it on the first try. I practice this level of difficulty shots all day long. I really get creativity in my shot making.

It's funny that those that have made the arrow have told me it works perfect. I've yet to hear that about any other training aid. There is nothing wrong with using a training aid when needed, which is no different than getting lessons which is also mentioned more than I have ever mentioned the Arrow or Babe Cranfield.

Also, I nowhere mentioned the arrow as much as CTE, PRO 1 or any other system on this forum. Ever see a thread title The ARROW, nope but there sure is PRO ONE DVD........

Just too funny..... I have nothing to prove to anyone here, I know what I can do and that's all that matters

Now, go worry about your own shot making.....or lack of it.
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If you are shooting shots like these in REAL situations, then, you sir, have action.
 
irock said:
LAMas, thanks for posting the diagrams, they are helpful. I do not see the off set for 1/2 tip pivot. JoeyA or anyone else, successful with Pro1, is it not needed in accomplishing the shots?
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Hi,
I contend that the offset isn't constant - if you want to keep your bridge distance behind the CB the same.

As the OB is farther away from the CB, the offset, and included angle, must be smaller or the CB will not contact the OB correctly or at all.

If you start at CTE with the CB and OB separated by 6 inches, and move your cue to the center of the OB (don't consider the relationship with the CB [remove it]) you will move much more to the side than if the OB were down table by 8 feet.

You need to deliver the CB to contact the smaller appearing OB in relation to the distance that separates them...there cannot be a 1/2 tip offset for all separations between the CB and OB if you want to maintain the distance between your bridge and CB (12"?) etc..

If you try my diagram and shift to the center of the OB, you will achieve a very thin cut...or miss the OB by a bit.:smile:

I hope the diagram helps....it was for free to AZB.:)


I hope this helps.
 
sfleinen said:
I agree, Dave. He can try that shot all night with me, and I'll offer him $20 for THREE TRIES at a pop. In other words, if he can make this shot ONCE in a three-try set, he gets my Andrew Jackson. Otherwise, I get his. He can try this all night, at $20 / 3-try set. I think I'm being quite gracious by offering 3 tries, but it's to prove a point.

The first carom angle he shows (the 3-ball into the 4-ball) is possible, albeit difficult to do with accuracy to get on the precise line to have that 3-ball then carom the 5-ball at the proper angle. And he would need to do this at speed to get the near 90-degree angle carom off the 4-ball -- the 3 needs to be sliding upon impact with the 4-ball. I'd say he's lucky to even hit the 5-ball with the 3-ball after 3 tries. But then to say he can have the 3-ball hit the 5-ball at the correct point to offer another near 90-degree angle carom into the side pocket (in other words, the 3-ball is still sliding upon impact with the 5-ball)? Horse puckie!

duckie, I'm a native ghostballer just like you. I consider myself one of the lucky few that can actually "see" the ghostball plain as day, just like any other object ball, and I can envision it in the correct place to pocket the object ball the lion's share of the time. But there are other factors in play than just merely aiming correctly on a shot to make the cue ball contact the object ball at the correct point to pocket that object ball, or otherwise send that object ball in a particular direction. I'm getting really, really tired of seeing you foist Babe Cranfield's arrow as the "aiming panacea." Like JB says, you can't use it in real games. And it only scratches the surface on single-ball carom angles (nevermind multi-ball carom angles at the distances you show). There are other aiming methods that grew out and upwards from the arrow (e.g. the back-of-ball aiming technique used in snooker, as good example of "moving onwards and upwards"). Babe Cranfield's arrow was a training tool. It was not intended to be the "all aiming roads stop here" multi-purpose panacea for any shot in pool.

I live in NY, with some of the best 3-cushion players in the world (Hugo Patiño, et al.) -- players that know how balls react when contacting each other. I'm officially calling you out on this shot. And I'm sure some of the 3C guys here would like to get in on this action, too. I don't know where you are, but if you're anywhere near NY, you have action with me.

Care to partake?
-Sean

P.S.: if the message wasn't clear, I'll spell it out for you. GET OFF THE ARROW. It's a training tool, not a be-all/end-all aiming panacea. Take your training wheels off.
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Stealing my action Sean, LOL.
 
JB Cases said:
Care to put your money where your mouth is?

Of course you don't.
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Why do you bother writing this? Every time I've seen you offer someone a challenge on AZ, you backed out. Every time I've ever seen someone offer you a challenge, you backed out.

Not to say you didn't grandstand for awhile and shoot your mouth off and make it seem like it was going to happen (only to have some hilarious condition or excuse thrown in to back out).

In the words of Russell Peters, "Be a man, do the right thing" (in a hilarious accent, of course).
 
irock said:
LAMas, thanks for posting the diagrams, they are helpful. I do not see the off set for 1/2 tip pivot. JoeyA or anyone else, successful with Pro1, is it not needed in accomplishing the shots?
Click to expand...

You must use the half tip pivot in Pro One CTE. IN Pro One, you have done the Manual pivot so much, you know where your eyes need to be and you know where your bridge hand needs to be and you place it there.

Pro One is the same as Pro One/CTE, except that there is no manual pivot.

I use a half tip offset on every Pro One CTE shot.

JoeyA
 
Buck Naked

duckie said:
The drawing was for reference only and not a exact placement of the balls. The point is I did a double carom into the side on the first try.

The real question is can you? I have already done this shot, so now yall go do it on the first try. I practice this level of difficulty shots all day long. I really get creativity in my shot making.

It's funny that those that have made the arrow have told me it works perfect. I've yet to hear that about any other training aid. There is nothing wrong with using a training aid when needed, which is no different than getting lessons which is also mentioned more than I have ever mentioned the Arrow or Babe Cranfield.

Also, I nowhere mentioned the arrow as much as CTE, PRO 1 or any other system on this forum. Ever see a thread title The ARROW, nope but there sure is PRO ONE DVD........

Just too funny..... I have nothing to prove to anyone here, I know what I can do and that's all that matters

Now, go worry about your own shot making.....or lack of it.
Click to expand...

Duckie,
You were doing just fine taking pot shots at the CTE guys at every turn. Occasionally you might have gotten a high-five from a hater here and there but your publicly announcing that this is the kind of shots that you practice strips you down to your birthday suit.

Being anonymous has its privileges but when you make statements about what you practice and what kind of shots you take seriously it kind of exposes you to the rest of the players.

You did it yourself, you're out of the closet now but it was your own doing.
 
duckie said:
Oh yeah, the real point was to use CTE to make that shot I posted, on a 9ft table.

Thats all I would like to see, a explanation of how to use CTE on that shot I posted.

Simple.
Click to expand...

Dude, you couldn't write an explanation on how to make that shot with any method. I mean, c'mon. To even call that shot a "carnival shot" is insulting all other carnival shots out there.

You couldn't make that shot if your life depended on it. CTE is a ball to pocket system or a CB to pocket system. I guess if you're gonna shoot a captain-blaster shot like that, anyone would have to get creative no matter what method of shooting they use.

So in short, stop talking smack by posting ridiculous shots you can't even execute yourself (or anyone for that matter). I see a slew of other az'ers already called your nonsense out. Since I'm the last one to call you out on that shot, I'm just hoping you have cash left before you get to my place in line.
 
shinobi said:
Why do you bother writing this? Every time I've seen you offer someone a challenge on AZ, you backed out. Every time I've ever seen someone offer you a challenge, you backed out.

Not to say you didn't grandstand for awhile and shoot your mouth off and make it seem like it was going to happen (only to have some hilarious condition or excuse thrown in to back out).

In the words of Russell Peters, "Be a man, do the right thing" (in a hilarious accent, of course).
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When? When have I ever offered a challenge where I backed out?

I have only offered ONE challenge on here where my conditions to freeze up the money were NOT MET and because of that and not wanting to continue to fade nonsense and insults by someone who wouldn't freeze up the cash and just make the game I finally gave up and decided that my time is better spent with people I care about.

I conceded everything the other side wanted EXCEPT setting the time. I tried everything possible to arrange the match and had $10,000 ready to bet with. But I was not going to allow it ALL to go his way and allow him to insult me on here and then make me wait around until he was ready to show up. Sorry but I work all day at the Super Billiards Expo and if someone wants to make that kind of a game then they should be willing to show up on time. I even forwent the demand the freeze up the money.

The fact is that we are all separated by great distances. So when a challenge is made by any side then most of the time it's logistically impractical to make it happen.

However I will play YOU a match of Fargo or Equal Offense for $500 live on video. We have to both start at the same time and stream it through Ustream. We have to both PayPal the money to a third party and the will be paid less the fees.

Bet?

Bueller? Bueller.......... B U E L L E R????????

Crickets chirping, the moon rises in the distance, the silence is deafening. Money has a color that is unseen when is kept safely in the pocket...........

Oh wait,

Aw SNAP, here comes the stupid backing out condition - I don't know WHO YOU ARE?

Shinobi? Who is that?

My name is John Barton, I have been a part of these forums using my REAL NAME, Age sex and location for 15 years. I am easy to find.

So forgive me if I consider your opinion to be worthless. I don't play phantoms. Based on what you write I am sure that I could drill you in any pool game. But I wouldn't put it past you to put a ringer in the box on video.

So sorry, without knowing who you are I can't play you. If you want to prove your identity and I can see you're not some "known" world beater then you have action. If you're an unknown world beater then I will pay up when I lose as long as it's YOU that I am playing. We might have to devise some sort of test though to prove it's actually you? Any idea how to structure that?

Can you see that logistically most of these "challenges" are just a way of expressing oneself and not meant to be taken seriously?

It's like when you say to someone I bet a million dollars you are wrong. It's a figure of speech. Now some challenges like the one I made to Eric were serious.

However I don't see where I agreed to be subjected to a bunch of idiotic insults while making the game. The record is pretty clear that I didn't start in that way and I was not in the wrong.

So I hope that this clears up your understanding of why I do what I do. If not then I don't care. Suck it up and put me on ignore.
 
JB Cases said:
When? When have I ever offered a challenge where I backed out?

I have only offered ONE challenge on here where my conditions to freeze up the money were NOT MET and because of that and not wanting to continue to fade nonsense and insults by someone who wouldn't freeze up the cash and just make the game I finally gave up and decided that my time is better spent with people I care about.

I conceded everything the other side wanted EXCEPT setting the time. I tried everything possible to arrange the match and had $10,000 ready to bet with. But I was not going to allow it ALL to go his way and allow him to insult me on here and then make me wait around until he was ready to show up. Sorry but I work all day at the Super Billiards Expo and if someone wants to make that kind of a game then they should be willing to show up on time. I even forwent the demand the freeze up the money.

The fact is that we are all separated by great distances. So when a challenge is made by any side then most of the time it's logistically impractical to make it happen.

However I will play YOU a match of Fargo or Equal Offense for $500 live on video. We have to both start at the same time and stream it through Ustream. We have to both PayPal the money to a third party and the will be paid less the fees.

Bet?

Bueller? Bueller.......... B U E L L E R????????

Crickets chirping, the moon rises in the distance, the silence is deafening. Money has a color that is unseen when is kept safely in the pocket...........

Oh wait,

Aw SNAP, here comes the stupid backing out condition - I don't know WHO YOU ARE?

Shinobi? Who is that?

My name is John Barton, I have been a part of these forums using my REAL NAME, Age sex and location for 15 years. I am easy to find.

So forgive me if I consider your opinion to be worthless. I don't play phantoms. Based on what you write I am sure that I could drill you in any pool game. But I wouldn't put it past you to put a ringer in the box on video.

So sorry, without knowing who you are I can't play you. If you want to prove your identity and I can see you're not some "known" world beater then you have action. If you're an unknown world beater then I will pay up when I lose as long as it's YOU that I am playing. We might have to devise some sort of test though to prove it's actually you? Any idea how to structure that?

Can you see that logistically most of these "challenges" are just a way of expressing oneself and not meant to be taken seriously?

It's like when you say to someone I bet a million dollars you are wrong. It's a figure of speech. Now some challenges like the one I made to Eric were serious.

However I don't see where I agreed to be subjected to a bunch of idiotic insults while making the game. The record is pretty clear that I didn't start in that way and I was not in the wrong.

So I hope that this clears up your understanding of why I do what I do. If not then I don't care. Suck it up and put me on ignore.
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John, I've never seen anyone write so much as you. I worried about my posts being too long winded. IMO some of what you say is pretty cool, but I believe alot of it is biased ranting. You may be a great shooter, you sure sound like you are, but what happened when you surprised Patrick with a visit. As I interpreted things, none of your ranting was justified, and you were soundly defeated, by a "nerd" - one of the scientists you continually scorn. Sorry, just being honest. I don't know who shinobi is, either, and I don't know why, but I got a feel'in you're about to get another rude lesson. Not hoping against you, just say'in!
 
shinobi said:
Why do you bother writing this? Every time I've seen you offer someone a challenge on AZ, you backed out. Every time I've ever seen someone offer you a challenge, you backed out.

Not to say you didn't grandstand for awhile and shoot your mouth off and make it seem like it was going to happen (only to have some hilarious condition or excuse thrown in to back out).

In the words of Russell Peters, "Be a man, do the right thing" (in a hilarious accent, of course).
Click to expand...

One more thing Shinobi, a challenge can only be backed out of IF it's accepted.

If the challenge is not accepted because the two parties cannot agree to the terms then no one is backing out.

So show me one time on AZ where I ever backed out of a challenge that I accepted. Get busy little beaver, this is a big tree you have to chop down.
 
shankster8 said:
John, I've never seen anyone write so much as you. I worried about my posts being too long winded. IMO some of what you say is pretty cool, but I believe alot of it is biased ranting. You may be a great shooter, you sure sound like you are, but what happened when you surprised Patrick with a visit. As I interpreted things, none of your ranting was justified, and you were soundly defeated, by a "nerd" - one of the scientists you continually scorn. Sorry, just being honest. I don't know who shinobi is, either, and I don't know why, but I got a feel'in you're about to get another rude lesson. Not hoping against you, just say'in!
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Soundly defeated?

Can any of you people actually read?

Ok first of all Pat was not surprised. I had set up the visit weeks in advance.

Secondly it happened at 11pm after I had been traveling all day through three airports.

Thridly it was INFORMAL and goofing around. We didn't COMPETE we were banging balls around and shooting the shit.

When I tried to show Pat what I do he was not interested in actually TRYING it - he was only interested in peppering me with the same type of questions he asked on the forum. These are questions I couldn't really answer BECAUSE I am not a CTE instructor and I have not studied the mechanics in depth enough to have the answers at the ready.

However I am sure that IF Pat had simply tried to follow my directions then he probably would have found the answers he was looking for.

Believe me if you want to bet on Pat Johnson then I SWEAR TO GOD ON A BIBLE that I will go to Chicago and play him one pocket until one of us goes flat broke. I have NO FEAR of his game in any game whatsoever.

We have played exactly TWICE and once he beat me in a little RSB match race to five and then a few months ago where we were just fooling around.

I didn't get any sort of a lesson from Pat. IN FACT I have video of him playing where he is sort of "pivoting" when he is aiming. When I pointed it out to him he denied that he had any movement at all when he gets down on the ball. Then several shots later he said that he did but that he had never noticed it before.

I am sure that if Shinobi's reading comprehension is any indication of his pool playing ability then he has no chance to beat me at any pool game. But then again we won't find out will will because no match is going to take place is it?

I am ready and can be live in one hour.
 
Island Drive said:
Your wite............you silly wabbit....Have a nice day. :cool:
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[/QUOTE]

Your to agreable. :wink:

Have a nice weekend. :cool:

I just hope somebody comes out with a video that makes them think they're much better than they are and pushes a convincing argument in favor of gambling. Let me know when that comes out and I'll start giving it out for birthday presents.. and christmas presents.. and president's day presents.. and.. well, you get the picture. :grin:
 
Ive been playing for 25 years and always aimed by feel until yesterday. I decided to look into this. I watched this video for free on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij38hYBti4c&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Turns out this is a friend of mine. I had no idea he did this but I do know he is a hell of a player and has spent a lot on lessons.
With in an hour using this method became 2nd nature and I almost felt like it was cheating. I don't have the best eyes any more but you barely need to aim. At the end of the day I was aiming c to e then after pivoting back to center....closing my eyes and firing and the ball was hitting the back of the pocket every time. It works...period. I don't know why and frankly don't care.

Heres the thing... If you don't have solid fundamentals this nor will anything like this work. You also of course have to make adjustments when you apply English. I remember last year watching the gentlemen who teaches for predator talking about how systems help you play under pressure. That the average guy who plays by feel Will be in trouble when the cheese is on the line. When that adrenaline gets flowing and the preasue is on it's tough to clear your head and still let nature take it's course. Systems allow the average guy to push through the haze and still succeed.
 
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