Why is the APA so frowned upon?

Two days ago my team beat the top ranked team and won the division and then yesterday they complained to the league that Two months ago when I joined I played my first game as a 7 since I didnt know my rank and thats what the captains agreed on at the time. They said that since I am a 9 now that game shouldnt count. I lost all the points for that game which just happened to be enough for the team to overtake us in the standings and knock us out of the next round. Its ridiculous and I am done with this league.
Sorry for the long post just needed to vent.
 
victorl said:
Two days ago my team beat the top ranked team and won the division and then yesterday they complained to the league that Two months ago when I joined I played my first game as a 7 since I didnt know my rank and thats what the captains agreed on at the time. They said that since I am a 9 now that game shouldnt count. I lost all the points for that game which just happened to be enough for the team to overtake us in the standings and knock us out of the next round. Its ridiculous and I am done with this league.
Sorry for the long post just needed to vent.
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That is insane to do that. Its not like you cheated or were on steroids or something that drastically changed the output. Oh no, I said steroids, all teams will be tested end of session now!!
 
victorl said:
Two days ago my team beat the top ranked team and won the division and then yesterday they complained to the league that Two months ago when I joined I played my first game as a 7 since I didnt know my rank and thats what the captains agreed on at the time. They said that since I am a 9 now that game shouldnt count. I lost all the points for that game which just happened to be enough for the team to overtake us in the standings and knock us out of the next round. Its ridiculous and I am done with this league.
Sorry for the long post just needed to vent.
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If that had happened to me, I (and probably most if not all of my team) would've walked out of that league never to return at the very moment I got that crappy news.

This is the kind of crap that pisses people off about APA (if indeed it WAS an APA league where this happened, victorl never mentions APA). But.....this shouldn't have happened in ANY league. Sad thing is, if it was APA, by rule he could have come in as a SL4. What a shitstorm that would've started, huh?

I'm mad about it although it doesn't even have any bearing on me, my team, nor the league in which I play in. It's just that knowing that crap like this CAN happen........

Maniac
 
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From what I have noticed it seems to be because:

- Some don't like the rules they have for 8 ball.
- Some don't like the rules they have for 9 ball.
- Some don't like the LOs.
- Some don't like that not all the players want to eventually play pro speed and would rather have a good time.
- Some don't like that they don't pay out enough.
- Some don't like that they don't pay out 100%.
- Some don't like that they don't give their profits to professional pool.
- Some don't like that it's not the BCA
- Most seem to not like that it's not run exactly the way they would run it.
 
Thanks for the replies. It was apa, but the japanese branch called the jpa. Rules and structure are exactly the same and they send a team from japan to the vegas nationals every year so its basically just a branch of the apa thats really really far away.
I dont mind losing on the table but to have it all taken away on a last ditch complaint AFTER the season ended was really tough to swallow. I feel sorry for my team who played so hard and were so excited at winning the division for the first time.
 
victorl said:
Thanks for the replies. It was apa, but the japanese branch called the jpa. Rules and structure are exactly the same and they send a team from japan to the vegas nationals every year so its basically just a branch of the apa thats really really far away.
I dont mind losing on the table but to have it all taken away on a last ditch complaint AFTER the season ended was really tough to swallow. I feel sorry for my team who played so hard and were so excited at winning the division for the first time.
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That is B.S.

No question about it.

Maniac is right, new male players, by rule, start as SL4. UNLESS that player is a known player, THEN the LO can establish a higher handicap, if he feels the need. That's if I understand it correctly.

We had a guy start with us as SL4, they jumped him to SL7 after two weeks, when he ran over some similar level players. We called, and got him backed down to SL6 which was really where he belonged. That's how it should work. But certainly not retroactively, changing results. Sheesh.

Sorry for you and your guys.
 
gunzby said:
From what I have noticed it seems to be because:

- Some don't like the rules they have for 8 ball.
- Some don't like the rules they have for 9 ball.
- Some don't like the LOs.
- Some don't like that not all the players want to eventually play pro speed and would rather have a good time.
- Some don't like that they don't pay out enough.
- Some don't like that they don't pay out 100%.
- Some don't like that they don't give their profits to professional pool.
- Some don't like that it's not the BCA
- Most seem to not like that it's not run exactly the way they would run it.
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Tap, tap, tap. :thumbup:
 
My take on the APA is a little different.

APA fills pool halls on nights that would otherwise be empty. Regardless of what we may think about the format of APA, payouts, handicapping and so forth it generates business related to pool. In today's economy given the level of interest in pool we need all the help we can get.

While I may think the APA handicapping system is a little ridiculous and makes it totally difficult for good players to get play time I also see that the APA performs a critical a critical function. The APA helps keep the door open at your favorite pool room / watering hole when otherwise many of the businesses I'm talking about would never make it.

Pool players are notoriously cheap where I live and these pool rooms would not survive if not for APA filling them on slow nights.

So all bullshit aside I almost view the APA as a survival mechanism for a lot of pool halls. In reality most people that play enjoy the APA despite any issues I may have personally with the APA. This is why there are tons of teams season to season in the APA.

So for that reason alone I don't frown upon the APA even though I may get frustrated. Boycotting the APA hurts your local pool room more than the APA national organization.
 
OK Folks,

Another APA thread re-appeared this morning. Guess its time for another update on my participation. Neither of the two teams I played on last session made the "city" finals. To me it's proof one player cannot make a team a winner. Its a real TEAM league. Twenty three and all.

We started our new session last week. I was in Vegas and didn't participate. Last night we played another team who beat us pretty bad last session. Our two and three won their matches. Didn't get there in time to see it but it must have been fun. Got to play their four. Last time I shut him out. This time he won a game. To him, it was a highlight. He was really thrilled to have won a game. Wanted to know if it was the first game I'd lost:eek:. We wound up winning all five matches for the first time according the the captain. Still having fun. Still happy I joined.

Lyn
 
Factor said:
I just don't understand all the APA bashing. It is a business and from my point of view, if I don't like a product, I don't patronize the business. If the product (or service) is that bad, then eventually the business either fails or has to change in order to continue. If there are enough customers to "carry" the business then maybe it doesn't fail or change. Either way, I can look elsewhere. For those that say there is no BCA around them, it isn't too difficult to sanction your own league. You just need to take the initiative to do something to make a change - kind of what you are paying a league operator to do. Run the business.
I don't disagree one bit that league operators make money, but like any independant franchise location, some are good at what they provide and some are not. Some are successful and some are not, but it's the customer that ultimately determines the success. It is a choice. I don't berate individuals for the choices they make at the grocery store every week. Maybe I buy different products because those are the products I feel deserve my money. It's all perceived value.

As for the luck factor of slopping balls in. It's like playing poker with a loose cannon. Yes, they are going to draw out on me once in a while, but I'll gladly take their money the large percentage of the time when they shouldn't even be in the hand. More often than not, the "slop" player will do something stupid that is to my advantage at the table. I'll take that percentage too.

Just my two cents. Actually that was more like a quarter.
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Good Post. If the APA wasn't a successful business model then it wouldn't be the largest league. Pretty simple. They are doing something right. People play leagues/pool for a variety of different reasons, social, competition, money, etc.

I've never really understood the APA bashing. IMHO, APA is good for the game overall. It is marketed to bring in new players to the game/sport. Some of those players will become more serious and will venture to other leagues and playing tournaments. They will spend money on cues, cases, and accessories. Buy food, drinks, table time, etc at the local establishments. I'm not sure why the negativity towards the APA. If you can do it better, then do it! That's what is great about this country.
 
cardiac kid said:
OK Folks,

Another APA thread re-appeared this morning. Guess its time for another update on my participation. Neither of the two teams I played on last session made the "city" finals. To me it's proof one player cannot make a team a winner. Its a real TEAM league. Twenty three and all.

We started our new session last week. I was in Vegas and didn't participate. Last night we played another team who beat us pretty bad last session. Our two and three won their matches. Didn't get there in time to see it but it must have been fun. Got to play their four. Last time I shut him out. This time he won a game. To him, it was a highlight. He was really thrilled to have won a game. Wanted to know if it was the first game I'd lost:eek:. We wound up winning all five matches for the first time according the the captain. Still having fun. Still happy I joined.

Lyn
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The really great part of this is how you are realizing what an impact the better players can have on the beginners. This guy had a highlight moment for himself just by actually beating you one game. That's some pretty powerful stuff.

You won't hear it from the beginners/lesser players often enough. But they are watching you, emulating you, hoping to someday be able to play competitively with you, if even for only a few games. (Or even one.) This applies to me, too. I love matching up with the better players when I can, and seeing what I can do. Turns out, after a while, I hang more and more, and beat some of them, too. These folks might just do the same, someday.

That's why it saddens me when the better players get down on APA. I do understand what a drag it can be, especially when you play at a MUCH higher level than your opponents most of the time. But you folks really do help grow the game, and these players games.

Glad you're finding enough good in it, and having some fun.
 
dardusm said:
I've never really understood the APA bashing. IMHO, APA is good for the game overall. It is marketed to bring in new players to the game/sport. Some of those players will become more serious and will venture to other leagues and playing tournaments. They will spend money on cues, cases, and accessories. Buy food, drinks, table time, etc at the local establishments. I'm not sure why the negativity towards the APA. If you can do it better, then do it! That's what is great about this country.
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My guess is 95% of the players can not run an open rack. Therefore they are not REAL pool players. The fact they spend money in game related areas is not germaine to most posters. The APA seems to have found a formula to make itself and the game of pool successful. The only area of operation I see as lacking is the "short" payouts at session end. Its Vegas or nothing! Still for the greatest percentage of pool players, the APA is the greatest. Get too good? Join the ACS, BCAPL, VNEA etc. From my viewpoint, do both! We're all REAL pool players. Some just better than others:cool:.

Lyn
 
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justadub,

Thanks for the comment. After we finished our match, I asked my opponent if he would like to learn "a move"? His captain had already left and no one called time out for him. Showed him how to play a simple safety that might have made him a winner. He said no one had ever shown him how to do that:eek:. If I diagrammed it, you would agree it was really simple. To me, that is what APA should be teaching its players as well as making balls. Pool is a game of percentages. All players need to learn that.

Lyn
 
The APA is great for bringing in new (lower level) player and getting them hooked on the game we love. Their rules ARE geared toward lower player to help them stay at the table and hopefully eventually get better. The APA has brought more new players into pool than the other leagues combined. There must be a reason for this. And when people ***** about "slop", I laugh, because these same players don't have a problem with slop when the play 9-Ball.
I've played in several league and maybe it's just the areas I've played, but so many BCA & ACS players think they are the best, yet they cannot shoot worth a damn. At best they would be 4's & 5's in APA. Now I know there are many outstanding shooters in BCA (we see them in Vegas all the time).
But honestly, IMO 99% of league players are amateur, that's why they aren't "Pros". Enjoy the game and those that play in all leagues.
I don't know why APA gets a bad rap here. You rarely hear and APA player bashing the other leagues. Maybe because they have almost 300K members and are having a good time?

Additionally, some notable players that have play/played APA:
Ike Runnels
Jennifer Baretta
Josh Brothers
 
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OverCutAnything said:
The APA is great for bringing in new (lower level) player and getting them hooked on the game we love. Their rules ARE geared toward lower player to help them stay at the table and hopefully eventually get better. The APA has brought more new players into pool than the other leagues combined. There must be a reason for this. And when people ***** about "slop", I laugh, because these same players don't have a problem with slop when the play 9-Ball.
I've played in several league and maybe it's just the areas I've played, but so many BCA & ACS players think they are the best, yet they cannot shoot worth a damn. At best they would be 4's & 5's in APA. Now I know there are many outstanding shooters in BCA (we see them in Vegas all the time).
But honestly, IMO 99% of league players are amateur, that's why they aren't "Pros". Enjoy the game and those that play in all leagues.
I don't know why APA gets a bad rap here. You rarely hear and APA player bashing the other leagues. Maybe because they have almost 300K members and are having a good time?

Additionally, some notable players that have play/played APA:
Ike Runnels
Jennifer Baretta
Josh Brothers
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I think you underestimate the quality of most BCAPL players. Perhaps the average, at least here in Rochester, would be closer to the five to six area. Regardless, I sometimes think people bash the APA just for something to do. Then again, some do have legitimate grips.

Incidentally, do you know Fred Charette? He used to play in Binghamton, NY. If you don't know the name, perhaps you've seen him play. Don't know of any other player who puts so much "body english" into every shot. If you know him, please say hello for me.

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
justadub,

Thanks for the comment. After we finished our match, I asked my opponent if he would like to learn "a move"? His captain had already left and no one called time out for him. Showed him how to play a simple safety that might have made him a winner. He said no one had ever shown him how to do that:eek:. If I diagrammed it, you would agree it was really simple. To me, that is what APA should be teaching its players as well as making balls. Pool is a game of percentages. All players need to learn that.

Lyn
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I know 7's who have given time outs to their opponent to help teach them :)

I, along with many others in our APA division go out of our way after matches are done to help teach the newer players. I know of several people who have come up to members on my team after they lost a match to that team and offer "Would you like me to show you some things you did wrong and teach you what to do next time?"

Part of what I like about the APA. I'm sure there are APA divisions and leagues filled with asshats, but you get that with anything.

Brian
 
Yes. I know Fred very well. And YES. He still has that unique form. But it works for him. Fred's a great guy, I see him in local tourneys about 3 times a week.

And yes, pool players like to gripe. From beginners to Pros. It's no wonder we are held with such high regard. lol.

I heard this a long time ago: What's the difference between a puppy and a pool player? One day the puppy will stop crying about everything.
 
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