CTE/Pro One DVD update

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I have been using CTE/Pro One off and one since first taking the lesson with Stan Shuffett.

I have used many different ways to aim for a long, long time. CTE/Pro One is just the latest aiming method that I learned and use.

This past week in the pool tournament, in playing against a lot of good players, I found myself in dead punch and just had to lower myself to the shot and I knew the ball was going to fall. This happens once in a blue moon where I get into stroke and can only wish it would happen more often.

What I find ironic, is that during the tournament, I was using basic contact point to contact point aiming and doing really well. The irony is that when I had trouble seeing the shot (before I became fatigued), I would revert back to CTE/Pro One aiming. I did this many times throughout the tournament. It was nice to have another aiming system to back into when needed.

For those naysayers who don't believe CTE/Pro One has any real value, I say you are entitled to your opinion but I can say that from my own personal experience, CTE/Pro One has a great deal of value for all levels of players who want to use it's precision.

There are going to be some players who don't get it, some other who won't get it and even a few who can't get it but for those who want to get it, they can. Some people just don't want to put in the effort to get it and that's the bottom line.

Even I had trouble getting it with one on one instruction from Stan but I eventually started seeing the consistency of using this aiming system.

I'm not hear to defend or to argue with anyone. I'm just stating my personal experience with CTE/Pro One.

I said a LONG TIME AGO, that the naysayers would not be able to change their minds no matter what they saw in a video or learned from one on one instruction. They have dug themselves a hole and now they can only shovel a little more dirt. It's all that's left for them to do. It is one of the reasons that I don't get caught up in the "discussions" any more.
 
lukemindish said:
Congrats on doing so well in the tournament JoeyA!!
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Thanks Luke. It was fun but the Calcutta buyers out there should know it is practically impossible for one man to catch lightning in a jug twice in one month.

JoeyA
 
Thanks for the update.

Joey,

As a student of the game, I can appreciate your efforts despite the background noise. I have said several times, in several different ways the same things you just related in your post. People criticize systems and if they're not microwaveable, they're a sham and somebody's trying to rip off the public.

I spent about a year trying to learn the pivot systems. I acquired a lot of knowledge that not only centers around how these systems are all basically cousins, but a simple discovery of many overlooked by-products. I have developed a strong pre-shot routine; my alignment is straight, I don't steer the cue stick; I get in stroke in just a few shots.

After using these systems my pool brain realized where I had to be to pocket balls. I automatically align myself correctly and don't use any system unless I draw a blank on a tough shot. This is the next step after Pro One. You have trained yourself to go to automatic and you just move down into the shot without thinking. The basic alignment is there, but it has become a natural progression that enables you to attain DEAD WHACK!

It doesn't come easy. It's taken me many hours to understand and train my brain. It's been frustrating, but should I just give up and hit balls for another twenty years with mediocre results? Hell, NO!

I read the posts about people not understanding the dvd and wanting a refund. Did they honestly put in the effort it takes to make it work after a few weeks? This isn't a TV dinner or liposuction. If you want it, you must keep working at it.

Good for you, Joey! Sounds like you picked up a ball or two. Nice.

Best,
Mike
 
Congratulations again Joey. It's good to see that in the whole scheme of things it does work. Thanks you for the up-date !
 
Mikjary said:
Joey,

As a student of the game, I can appreciate your efforts despite the background noise. I have said several times, in several different ways the same things you just related in your post. People criticize systems and if they're not microwaveable, they're a sham and somebody's trying to rip off the public.

I spent about a year trying to learn the pivot systems. I acquired a lot of knowledge that not only centers around how these systems are all basically cousins, but a simple discovery of many overlooked by-products. I have developed a strong pre-shot routine; my alignment is straight, I don't steer the cue stick; I get in stroke in just a few shots.

After using these systems my pool brain realized where I had to be to pocket balls. I automatically align myself correctly and don't use any system unless I draw a blank on a tough shot. This is the next step after Pro One. You have trained yourself to go to automatic and you just move down into the shot without thinking. The basic alignment is there, but it has become a natural progression that enables you to attain DEAD WHACK!

It doesn't come easy. It's taken me many hours to understand and train my brain. It's been frustrating, but should I just give up and hit balls for another twenty years with mediocre results? Hell, NO!

I read the posts about people not understanding the dvd and wanting a refund. Did they honestly put in the effort it takes to make it work after a few weeks? This isn't a TV dinner or liposuction. If you want it, you must keep working at it.

Good for you, Joey! Sounds like you picked up a ball or two. Nice.

Best,
Mike
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It drove me crazy at first. I still probably don't do it right but I am "starting" to see and pocket balls better day by day. I can now stand, or step back if necessary, see my two lines step into the shot while holding the lines ( I seem to adjust slightly as I get down but hold the lines)I remind myself that it is a center ball system and some times have to pivot sometimes not. I have a lot of balls to hit yet as sometimes I screw up some shots--but fewer each week. But I know nothing works if I don't deliver the cue right. It is definitely a valid and valuable tool.
 
Thanks for the update on your CTE journey.. Glad you played well and found it helpful! Great job.
 
JoeyA said:
II said a LONG TIME AGO, that the naysayers would not be able to change their minds no matter what they saw in a video or learned from one on one instruction.
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JA,
So you are saying that ALL who don't use it or don't like it are close-minded??? That's a statement that conveys a certain sense of close-mindedness in itself (I'm thinking you didn't mean it that way), and bound to be wrong in my view. I've always thought that "all generalizations are wrong...including this one." I know 2 people that have taken the instruction from HH and have chosen to not use it for various reasons (what I consider to be very good reasons, and they certainly play your speed or higher), so I would disagree with your assessment.

Having said that, you would be quite correct in saying that SOME players on BOTH sides of the fence will never change their view (hopefully that is what you were trying to say); but I suspect much of the stubborness results from lack of convincing evidence on either side.

It was GREAT to see one of our AZB'ers do well in the tourney. Keep it up.
 
shankster8 said:
JoeyA congrats on your recent tournament play!
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Thanks Shank!

eezbank said:
Good shooting Joey! Sounds like things are starting to come together.
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Exercise helped before the tournament and then stopping exercise during tournament helped. Also complex carbohydrates is my new motto. :wink: A little CTE/Pro One to back me up was also seet

Williebetmore said:
JA,
So you are saying that ALL who don't use it or don't like it are close-minded??? That's a statement that conveys a certain sense of close-mindedness in itself (I'm thinking you didn't mean it that way), and bound to be wrong in my view. I've always thought that "all generalizations are wrong...including this one." I know 2 people that have taken the instruction from HH and have chosen to not use it for various reasons (what I consider to be very good reasons, and they certainly play your speed or higher), so I would disagree with your assessment.

Having said that, you would be quite correct in saying that SOME players on BOTH sides of the fence will never change their view (hopefully that is what you were trying to say); but I suspect much of the stubborness results from lack of convincing evidence on either side.

It was GREAT to see one of our AZB'ers do well in the tourney. Keep it up.
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Don,

Not ALL people who don't use it are close-minded but some of them are and nothing short of a religious experience is going to open their mind. :wink:

What I am saying and what I am comfortable in saying is that the more outspoken naysayers will find eating crow a tasteless and undesirable meal and therefore because of loss of appetite they will not give their best efforts to learn CTE/Pro One and will be reluctant to learn how to use it.

To address another point that you made: As far as HH is concerned, I too, took lessons from Hal and I DID NOT USE CTE as he taught it because it just didn't have what I needed to make balls consistently.

What Stan taught me with CTE/Pro One is FAR MORE VALUABLE and it works consistently well.

It is unfortunate that I took the CTE/Pro One lesson in person first and then saw the video because I had a different experience than most of you. I know that when I first started using CTE/Pro One I was determined to learn the mechanical movements of CTE/Pro One and wanted to make these movements perfectly before I even thought of moving on to Pro One. I used CTE for one full month before I even thought of going to Pro One. That's a whole month Don, playing practically everyday.

Maybe some of the people don't have the motivation to learn CTE/Pro One and maybe the one on one lesson helped me. (I'm sure it did)

Look, CTE/Pro One isn't going to make you a great player. It's just another tool, like any other aiming method. Learn it, don't learn it, ignore it, shout it from the rooftops, but for Pete's sake, don't beat it to death because you don't get it or don't want to get it.

People use shadow aiming. I've used it. It works pretty good. I mean really good. Just because I used it doesn't mean that I will use it all of the time.

Some people use the lights to aim by. I've tried it but I just don't get it like I do with CTE/Pro One but I'M NOT GOING TO ***** and whine about every person who says they use it consistently well and can run out like water. Just because I don't get it and am not willing to do more to get it, doesn't mean that it doesn't work and that it doesn't work well.

Personally, I think some of the naysayers are genuinely perplexed and I can understand that. I think that some people naturally fall into CTE/Pro One and others have to work at it. I was one of those who had to work at it. It really is simple to use consistently well on a WIDE RANGE of shots but I think like with most things, you have to get comfortable with it. I believe CTE/Pro One is a visual perspective aiming system and a good one. With that being said, when I played in this past weekend's tournament, I did not use it on every shot. I did use it on some shots and IT HELPED A LOT.

Prior to taking the lesson with Stan, I doubted CTE had much value for me as a player. Stan refined and defined CTE/Pro One and all of the new information that Stan showed me (and what's in his video is the same thing that he taught me in person), WORKS. I would probably have remained skeptical about CTE/Pro One if I didn't take the lesson with Stan.

I think some of the posters are making good suggestions about "getting it" and straight in shots is probably the best way to "get it". My trouble was understanding visually how to maintain the center to edge line from the CB to the edge of object ball, while simultaneously aiming the edge of the cue ball at points A,B, or C. For the record, I do all of this standing upright but as I lower myself to the table, I hold these two perspectives. With some practice, you learn which side of the CTEL to place your bridge for the correct pivot.

I didn't mean for this to be a lesson in CTE/Pro One because I am not qualified to give one, but it is my perspective on what I see and what I do.

Don, I think a lot more peace would be spread about AZB land if the naysayers were to admonish the "snipers" who deliberately attempt to sabotage discussions on CTE/Pro One.

In addition maybe the naysayers and the disciples of CTE/Pro One could tone down their posts. Personally, I think both sides have done some of this.

I haven't seen much in the form of personal apologies for all of the mud-slinging that has occured in the past.

I also don't see where Dr. Dave has answered the question about whether he extended professional courtesy to Stan Shuffett by asking him if he had permission to post the content of CTE/Pro One on his website. Maybe I just missed it. Did you see where he extended that professional courtesy?
 
JoeyA said:
I also don't see where Dr. Dave has answered the question about whether he extended professional courtesy to Stan Shuffett by asking him if he had permission to post the content of CTE/Pro One on his website. Maybe I just missed it. Did you see where he extended that professional courtesy?
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That's the core of my beef in the other thread. To compound that, he never had the courtesy to call Stan to discuss some of his questions. Dr. Dave instead demanded that questions be answered in that thread (when the thread was trying to schedule phone consultations). Next thing ya know, the DVD didn't cover "this-and-that."
 
Congrats Joey on the fine finish this weekend. I was another that took lessons from Stan last October. I learned his Pro One/CTE with an open mind. I had read some of the threads concerning aiming systems but did not really pay attention. I was able to understand the aiming system fairly quickly and it does work. I have played competitive pool for years as an amateur and really don't have too many issues pocketing balls. It's the other issues that slow me down :grin:

For me, Pro One is a tool. Some people use the system exclusively such as Stan or Landon. I have had good success using it on certain shots that I don't "see" very well using my experience as my primary aiming method. I know that the system works but sometimes I think people want a magic pill that will improve their game. But in reality, it takes hard work, patience, and constant desire to improve to get better IMHO. Not to mention, rock solid fundamentals. It doesn't matter how you aim if you can't get your cue through the cue ball on target.
 
dardusm said:
Congrats Joey on the fine finish this weekend. I was another that took lessons from Stan last October. I learned his Pro One/CTE with an open mind. I had read some of the threads concerning aiming systems but did not really pay attention. I was able to understand the aiming system fairly quickly and it does work. I have played competitive pool for years as an amateur and really don't have too many issues pocketing balls. It's the other issues that slow me down :grin:

For me, Pro One is a tool. Some people use the system exclusively such as Stan or Landon. I have had good success using it on certain shots that I don't "see" very well using my experience as my primary aiming method. I know that the system works but sometimes I think people want a magic pill that will improve their game. But in reality, it takes hard work, patience, and constant desire to improve to get better IMHO. Not to mention, rock solid fundamentals. It doesn't matter how you aim if you can't get your cue through the cue ball on target.
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I'm glad to see your post. It's nice to know that some others took the lesson first and then saw the video. It makes perfect sense to me.
 
I think it was Lou Figueroa or maybe it was someone else had said that learning CTE/Pro One could easily cause me to lower my overall level of play.

I don't think that is the case. Not trying to stir up another s**t storm that seems to be brewing in other threads.

I'm just saying that my personal experiences are contrary to this type of thinking.

Apologies to Lou if he wasn't the person who suggested this although I did consider what he said.

It is my belief that CTE/Pro One has enhanced my level of play rather than reducing it.

Like I said in other posts, there are other positive derivatives beside a new and unique way to aim that I obtained from learning CTE/Pro One. The importance of finding the very center of the cue ball can never be emphasized enough. Having the confidence to know that you are aiming correctly cannot be emphasized enough.

All that being said, CTE/Pro One is a minimal part of my overall game and it will be for anyone who uses it.

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
Don, I think a lot more peace would be spread about AZB land if the naysayers were to admonish the "snipers" who deliberately attempt to sabotage discussions on CTE/Pro One.

In addition maybe the naysayers and the disciples of CTE/Pro One could tone down their posts. Personally, I think both sides have done some of this.

I haven't seen much in the form of personal apologies for all of the mud-slinging that has occured in the past.

[/B]
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JA,
Too true. I'm not as familiar with those threads, because when the mudslinging starts, I exit. I have zero interest in internet debates among poorly mannered people, and I don't really follow those threads much; I'm not really sure who the trolls are, but I know they exist.

While I do not use any CTE principles currently, I have DEFINITELY planned to seek out more/better instruction in it. Even if I don't use it, as a student of the game it is quite interesting to investigate different methods.

My idea was to get the gist of it from SpiderWebComm (but he has been ducking me at DCC the last 2 years). I definitely think he could help, he has a nice scientific/analytic bent. I think he fears I will corner him and talk him to death. Last time I saw him was in the parking lot during the Executive West DCC late night fire drill several years ago, and we had a nice discussion. He knows a lot about the system.
 
As the CTE/Pro One world turns.

It's been a while since I've added anything to this thread because I don't want to post ad nauseum.

That being said, I'm going to make some bold statements. I will try not to admonish anyone in the process. It's just not necessary.

I believe that CTE/Pro One is an ACCURATE and one of the BEST tools to use to shoot shots.

CTE/Pro One may become the most popular aiming system in the world.

It is obvious that some people are getting immediate positive results in their pool game. I can't really say that, although I seem to be playing better than ever. I can't say that my game took an immediate jump but as I've mentioned in other posts, my game seems to be improving slowly.

I've been working with CTE/Pro One ever since I took the one on one lesson with Stan Shuffett. In recent weeks I have been moving back and forth between traditional aiming and CTE/Pro One aiming, depending upon my mood at the time.

As I learn more about the visual perspectives (yes, I continue to refine my visuals of CTE/Pro One), thanks to Stan's post on AZ Billiards Main Forum, I realize that my expertise in using CTE/Pro One is evolving in a postive way. In other words, I feel like I can use CTE/Pro One better, the more that I use it.

I've spoken to a number of people who have trouble with CTE/Pro One and I give them the help when I can. I've also spoken to people who are new to CTE/Pro One and there are some VERY POSITIVE stories being told by different people with different skill levels.

I have just started using Pro One, which I call the natural or non-mechanical way of aiming with CTE/Pro One. I have held back on going to Pro One for a longer time than may be necessary for some of you but I wanted to be certain that I fully understood the mechanical part of CTE/Pro One.

I was asked recently in a private email by another poster if CTE/Pro One actually helped my game. I answered the person by saying that I was pretty sure it had helped my game but as I was typing I realized that I was POSITIVE it had helped my game. Now for those of you who know me, the bottom line is how I play in matches not how I play in practice. When the pressure is on is how I weigh things.

I am still kind of new with Stan Shuffett's CTE/Pro One but am getting more comfortable with it every day. I actually think I could teach it. That's how comfortable I'm getting with it. For the record, I'm glad I took the one on one lesson with Stan Shuffett first. I think his tutelage gave me the confidence to stay with CTE/Pro One after I got back home. The video has all of the information that you need to learn CTE/Pro One but I have to believe one on one is the way to go with CTE/Pro One.

Now as I had mentioned in one of the above paragraphs, how I perform under pressure in tournament play or gambling matches is how I measure my performance. I've had some recent tests that were marginally positive. There are some additional tests coming up soon, one in Lafayette, Louisiana where there is a $30,000.00 to $40,000.00 Calcutta along with the entry fees of 128 players and added money, the other at the U.S. OPen One Pocket Championship where I would like to play. Both of these events are filled with top players, maybe the world's best in their respective fields of discipline.

Anyway, I want to say that my journey with CTE/Pro One has had its ups and downs but as I refine my visuals, I know that the end result is getting better. When I say refine my visuals, that is not code for "FEEL AIMING", it is simply that I am paying more attention to the nuances of CTE/Pro One.

I know this is rather lengthy and I'm glad that you put up with these type of posts. I don't care what other people do or don't do. I am trying to improve my pool game and enjoy learning new things. CTE/Pro One is a great thing to learn. At the beginning, I thought there would come a day when I might retire CTE/Pro One and go back to contact point to contact point aiming but I am leaning more toward CTE/Pro One than any other time since learning it.

Don't invest any money in the Calcuttas on me because it's a big gamble. There are LOTS of TOP players vieing for those big bucks, in fact, there are far better players than myself who will be playing. Besides I don't like paying the big bucks for myself in the Calcuttas. :D

I know that some of you are struggling with CTE/Pro One but it is not a "silver bullet" (thanks Ray Martin :) ) It is real, it is true, it is accurate but it takes work and a willingness to learn. I'm still learning and hope you will stay with it. I'll be letting you know in the future if I think it is worth it by what I do on the tournament trail. Hope to see you there.

Anyway, stay tuned as I continue the journey.

JoeyA

P.S. Oh yeah, it's a lot of fun too! :yeah:
 
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