Is Mike Sigel the best ever?
- Thread starter wrldpro
- Start date
Didn't Efren, in an interview around the King of the Hill, say Mike was the all time best? Would that persuade you?
No, Efren is too modest. When asked he usually attributes a win to luck.
On DVD I have Ronnie Allen getting his arse handed to him by Keith McCready in a one-pocket match race to 5 ahead for 10k... (mid 80's, early 90's)
IMHO both Scott "The Freezer" Frost & Grady "The Professor" Mathews are/were better one-pocket players than Efren...
RA and Grady in both their primes would have been a match I would have liked to see...
If anybody has any old VHS or whatever format of RA - Grady matches, PM me I would like to buy a copy...
ANd I guess that is the beauty of this hellish game!
YOu can never be sure of a win.
But you must admit, Efren has a knack of finding a way to win. I think he 'get lucky'.
YOu can never be sure of a win.
But you must admit, Efren has a knack of finding a way to win. I think he 'get lucky'.
Is this thread for real? EFREN! Spots the world two balls in one pocket. Beats the world at eight ball, then there's rotation, 9 ball, straight pool, are you gonna bet against him?
I believe Efren said Mike was his favorite player, not necessarily the best. Whoever you pick, be it Mike or Efren, I can not disagree with you. It's a toss-up that can only be decided by how you pick the games. Favor 9B & 14.1 and Mike gets the edge. Favor 1P & 8B and Efren gets the edge.
Efren has said that Mike Sigel was the toughest opponent he ever faced.
HarleyKR07
New member
Not sure if anyone brought it up but I got to see Sigel play a couple weeks ago for my first time in Frederick,MD at the planet pool stop. He went 2 and out.....
Lol! :thumbup:
That's true, even used the phrase "imo best ever", but then again it was the IPT crew which was interviewing him, so maybe he was told to say so
Edit: Even though he has said so, it doesn't mean Mike was better than Efren himself, which I believe he wasn't.
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kybill9
Banned
I am glad you mentioned the bear Eddie Taylor. The man had huge hands, massive. I was fortunate enough to see him and Bob Bowles play banks on many occasions. One time I remember, they played five no count. Those guys shot in banks better than I can make a three inch straight in. Best player ever? Hard to say. Would some of the old time players have been better with today's equipment? Absolutely. Efren, Earl, Johnny Archer, all dominate at times just like Siegal has done. If you put up a list of fifty players, how do you choose. Now we have international champions and some we don't even hear about because they stay in Asia. Do we count snooker players? Who is the most feared? Tournament? Cash? What's the criteria? How dominate? All games? Knowledge? Any one of the great players could be considered a number one player and you wouldn't be shot down. Every time I go to the DCC, I see the greatest players and how do you choose who is the best of them after a lifetime. I say tip our hats to all of them and call it a tie. The best ever, all of them for their heart.
Interesting read...
Greatest Player Ever?
http://billiardsdigest.com/new_current_issue/apr_10/untoldindex.php
The Record books speak for themselves, if you do not want to take Efren or Mikes word for who the best (living player) is...
Hands down Mike Sigel has the won the most lifetime matches against Efren of any player to-date...
Even counting Mike's big loss against Efren in the 2005 IPT 8-ball King of the Hill, (I have it on DVD) in which Efren had one tough shot the entire match (and to his credit he made it); every shot Efren missed was an easy shot; while with the exception of the first game in which Mike missed his only easy shot of the match; every other shot Mike missed was very low percentage whether he went for a safe or the shot...
While I think Mike & Efren's best days are behind them both; I think we may see another few years of great pool from both of them yet; even though they are both pretty much senior citizens...
Greatest Player Ever?
http://billiardsdigest.com/new_current_issue/apr_10/untoldindex.php
The Record books speak for themselves, if you do not want to take Efren or Mikes word for who the best (living player) is...
Hands down Mike Sigel has the won the most lifetime matches against Efren of any player to-date...
Even counting Mike's big loss against Efren in the 2005 IPT 8-ball King of the Hill, (I have it on DVD) in which Efren had one tough shot the entire match (and to his credit he made it); every shot Efren missed was an easy shot; while with the exception of the first game in which Mike missed his only easy shot of the match; every other shot Mike missed was very low percentage whether he went for a safe or the shot...
While I think Mike & Efren's best days are behind them both; I think we may see another few years of great pool from both of them yet; even though they are both pretty much senior citizens...
The IPT was a scam, if you approach it from a sporting perspective. Scripted entertainment, but you continue to use it as fact.
I like KYBill's determination: how do you choose who is the best of them after a lifetime. I say tip our hats to all of them and call it a tie. The best ever, all of them
I like KYBill's determination: how do you choose who is the best of them after a lifetime. I say tip our hats to all of them and call it a tie. The best ever, all of them
Not sure if you read my post or posts in their entirety; so I am not sure where you are coming from when you say I continue to use IPT as fact...
Let me be try to be more clear...
IPT or not; over the 25-30 years they have been playing each other; Mike Sigel has a greater lifetime winning percentage against Efren Reyes than any other player to-date...
Moreover, I don't think Efren will be playing long enough for anybody else to beat him more than Mike Sigel has...
Additionally, Mike Sigel further has a higher lifetime winning percentage and or making it to the finals percentage of world class competition than any other player in history to-date...
peace
Why charlie ursitti's work is so important...
Because there are so many different billiard games, this argument will never be settled to the satisfaction of anyone but sheep. However, Mosconi's manager Charlie Ursitti has spent a good portion of his life reserching and compiling data from tournaments and matches so that we can FINALLY have some objective data to compare players. The only trouble is that there is 10-15% of tournament data that has not been found. If you have, or know anyone who has, ANY old billiard periodicals with ANY tournament data then you should share it with Charlie.
It's a lot easier with golf because there is only one game, just golf. In golf, I believe that the world #1 should be determined simply by averaging a player's score in every single match ever recorded for him, not giving weight to the Masters or whatever.
Because there are so many different billiard games, this argument will never be settled to the satisfaction of anyone but sheep. However, Mosconi's manager Charlie Ursitti has spent a good portion of his life reserching and compiling data from tournaments and matches so that we can FINALLY have some objective data to compare players. The only trouble is that there is 10-15% of tournament data that has not been found. If you have, or know anyone who has, ANY old billiard periodicals with ANY tournament data then you should share it with Charlie.
It's a lot easier with golf because there is only one game, just golf. In golf, I believe that the world #1 should be determined simply by averaging a player's score in every single match ever recorded for him, not giving weight to the Masters or whatever.
YOu are absolutely correct- I should not have used 'you'- my apologies for singling you out.
And kudos for the kind dialogue!
8 ball should not count lol
SP=mosconi
any rotation pool = Reyes
Banks = Eddie Taylor by far. (BUGS got his balls shot off by gary spaith often did he not?)
One hole = reyes
That's true, even used the phrase "imo best ever", but then again it was the IPT crew which was interviewing him, so maybe he was told to say so
Edit: Even though he has said so, it doesn't mean Mike was better than Efren himself, which I believe he wasn't.
Actually Efren said it long before the IPT. IMO Efren is the best all-around player of the last 40 years (and arguably ever), and Sigel is the second-best all-around player of the last 40 years, and one of the best ever as well.
A recent poll I put up had Mosconi voted as the best American player ever, with Strickland a clear second choice. I think Strickland may have a slight edge on Sigel in 9-ball, mainly due to longevity, but no one was a more consistent 9-ball tournament player than Sigel in his prime. Sigel has Strickland beat in all other games, though, and to me Sigel is far and away the better all-around American player over Strickland.
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madfedaykin
Registered
Great read this thread. There's so much first-hand stories and opinions from knowledgeable pool pundits for everyone to benefit from. I know I gained a lot after reading this thread from start to finish (20 pages as of date).
Here's a couple of questions for those who think Efren should not be the GOAT because of his less than stellar record on world championships (WC). If there were as many rotation WC as there are 9-ball WC or straight pool WC, how many do you think would Efren have won of the former? Say he wins just 5 rotation world championships in the span of 20 years (i think 15/20 is a more realistic estimate), would that have changed your mind on putting Earl, Mike, or Mosconi ahead of him? I guess these aren't really questions. Just trying to make a point that world championship wins should not count as much since there are no world championships for all pool disciplines.
I would like to extend my point to cover tournament wins as well. What if there were as many rotation tournaments as say 9-ball or straight pool, how many of that would have Efren won?
Here's a couple of questions for those who think Efren should not be the GOAT because of his less than stellar record on world championships (WC). If there were as many rotation WC as there are 9-ball WC or straight pool WC, how many do you think would Efren have won of the former? Say he wins just 5 rotation world championships in the span of 20 years (i think 15/20 is a more realistic estimate), would that have changed your mind on putting Earl, Mike, or Mosconi ahead of him? I guess these aren't really questions. Just trying to make a point that world championship wins should not count as much since there are no world championships for all pool disciplines.
I would like to extend my point to cover tournament wins as well. What if there were as many rotation tournaments as say 9-ball or straight pool, how many of that would have Efren won?