Brazilian Rosewood for real?

One red-flag for me on this seller is that he lists everything as 'dead-on quartersawn'.
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And don't forget......"it's harder than Oak" also....;)

I suspect these boards to be dalbergia spruceana. I could be off base and only guessing but this seems the most logical for the size of the boards he is auctioning off. Very close match to nigra in color and other charateristics minus the tale tale fragrance of the nigra. A while back when you could do so, I contacted a number of the buyers that had made purchases from film4. It was about 50-50 on what they were telling me for it to be the real deal. A lot of the buyers that I asked who said it was didn't know what I was talking about when I asked about the nigra fragrance. So I believe the numbers to be closer to 90-10 on the negatory side.
 
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His stuff looks a lot like this, which is not nigra. Does ring like a bell though.

aefc82b7-e5be-17a4.jpg


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Murray Tucker said:
His stuff looks a lot like this, which is not nigra. Does ring like a bell though.

aefc82b7-e5be-17a4.jpg


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What flav you showing here?

The stuff he has may very well be from Brazil and it may be in the rose family...thus calling it Brazilian Rosewood. But like so many other "catch phrases" used he knows the right wording will reel in the amount of business he wants to unload his stuff. I've emailed him so many times asking if it is dal nigra, he has quit answering. I may have even earned the right to be on his ignore list and can not buy list... :embarrassed2:
 
Murray Tucker said:
His stuff looks a lot like this, which is not nigra. Does ring like a bell though.

aefc82b7-e5be-17a4.jpg


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Click to expand...

That almost looks like jacaranda paulista (still super nice), another form of almost Brazilian rosewood don't recall the dalbergia family name. Way different from the real deal.


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Some of you may recall I sold near a couple hundred Dalbergia nigra squares and rounds several years back now. They were the real deal. I was probably stupid for selling some of them at the price I did based on what they sell for now. I have only a few left.

I will say this, there is a reason why the species name is nigra. That does mean black, not reddish brown or red. I have heard people say the best nigra pieces have a lot of red in them. Some of the material I sold certainly had some reddish streaks in them. Any of us who have had more than a few pieces of wood from the same species pass through our hands know how varied they can be. Generally though, all of the material I had (they were very old stock BTW) looked the same, which is different than some of the listings on ebay being talked about.

Dave is right. Nowhere in the listings (that I have glanced at) does it say nigra species. Technically, if it is any Dalbergia species and from Brazil, it is Brazilian rosewood and the listings are true. I personally wouldn't take the chance with what I see. I could be wrong, maybe reclaimed (maybe why they are fully waxed?) material might look very different, I don't know. If I were to take a chance, I would buy the smallest piece I could and cut on it right away comparing it to what I know is nigra. As it has been mentioned before, the scent can't be faked that I know of.

Just another 2 cents....

Kelly
 
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Thank you Dennis for sharing your insights on this topic.
Like I said, this is a risky business at best this Brazilian Rose.
I feel fortunate in that I've bought BR from Kelly here on AZ and trust both
he and his wood explicitly. So much so that I've used his BR as my benchmark
in determining quality and authenticity of what I've bought from other sources since.
Kelly is a good man to know.

I'll reiterate that eBay is a crap-shoot at best and 'film4' is no exception.
While on a couple of occasions where I was lucky enough to be the top bid on what
I still believe to this day to be BR, I did have one instance where luck was not on my side.
I had won bid on 2 turning sqs. and immediately after removing them from the pkg.,
I knew I was sent something other than BR. It just didn't have the weight you would
expect of BR, nor the tone or grain structure. The color wasn't right either.
As fate would have it, over the 6 mos preceding this purchase, I had bought maybe 100
turning sqs. of EI. Rose from another source. They all had a concave groove running the
length of one side. Placing the 2 sqs. from 'film4' (also with the groove) next to some of
the known EI. Rose, you couldn't tell the difference.
I confronted him on this possible error and was told that he hadn't yet received the 'CITES'
documentation and hadn't confirmed the species on this batch.
At the end of the day, he told me to just keep the wood and he refunded my money.
For those that don't know, there is a considerable difference in the price btwn the 2 woods.
I haven't been able to win any more of his auctions since because they are going for more than
twice what I'm willing to pay. I guess my luck still holds.

Regarding the heavy wax job, I believe he does this himself.
Most of what I've bought from him was not waxed except on the ends.
It's a little difficult to see surface checks and worm holes through an 1/8" of wax
though he does state in his listings that he is not responsible for such defects.
Again, you take what you can get when you can get it.
It's not like it grows on trees anymore.
KJ
 
Funny that KJ. I to have purchased EI that had a horizontal groove running the length of the square.

Maybe the same guy. NY area sound about right?
 
KJ Cues said:
West Penn IIRC.
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Ditto, but probably not exclusive to West Penn.

The grooves (pretty sure about the grooves), and the notches (very sure about the small square notches) at the very ends of some squares are usually a "feature" cut into the wood when processed in the country of origin so they can be sold as furniture legs to get around bans (sometimes temporary based on quotas) on exporting dimensional/raw lumber.

***minor hijack below***
I bought some Burmese padauk once that had the notches. Most padauk is from Africa. Burmese padauk is better, but harder to find. Andaman islands padauk is rumored to be the best, but it was wiped out I think.
***minor hijack above***

Kelly
 
Kelly_Guy said:
Ditto, but probably not exclusive to West Penn.

The grooves (pretty sure about the grooves), and the notches (very sure about the small square notches) at the very ends of some squares are usually a "feature" cut into the wood when processed in the country of origin so they can be sold as furniture legs to get around bans (sometimes temporary based on quotas) on exporting dimensional/raw lumber.

***minor hijack below***
I bought some Burmese padauk once that had the notches. Most padauk is from Africa. Burmese padauk is better, but harder to find. Andaman islands padauk is rumored to be the best, but it was wiped out I think.
***minor hijack above***

Kelly
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I got all My rosewood squares mixed up. I have some with the concave looking profile on one edge. It's that type of profile that the Brazilian squares had in them isn't It? Or did some of their EI squares have that in them? I know they all couldn't have It, because I have some that I know are EI, and there are no profiles on them. I have a lot of squares to turn when I get the parts in to finish that dust box. Might be easier to tell when I turn them. I have some others that are definitely rosewood, and look pretty cool, and not EI, but somewhere along the way I lost track of what type they were.

Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
I got all My rosewood squares mixed up. I have some with the concave looking profile on one edge. It's that type of profile that the Brazilian squares had in them isn't It? Or did some of their EI squares have that in them? I know they all couldn't have It, because I have some that I know are EI, and there are no profiles on them. I have a lot of squares to turn when I get the parts in to finish that dust box. Might be easier to tell when I turn them. I have some others that are definitely rosewood, and look pretty cool, and not EI, but somewhere along the way I lost track of what type they were.

Greg
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I have seen the curved profile on one face on EI only, not brazilian. I can't remember if one or two of my brazilian pieces made it your way, but if so they did not have a profile cut on them.

If anyone wants a "free" sample of brazilian rosewood, they can pay for my shipping/paypal cost and I can send a small cut off or a knife scale size piece for them to have on hand. The smell when cut really is distinct.

Kelly
 
Kelly_Guy said:
I have seen the curved profile on one face on EI only, not brazilian. I can't remember if one or two of my brazilian pieces made it your way, but if so they did not have a profile cut on them.

If anyone wants a "free" sample of brazilian rosewood, they can pay for my shipping/paypal cost and I can send a small cut off or a knife scale size piece for them to have on hand. The smell when cut really is distinct.

Kelly
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Ok, yeah I think that was Your batch of EI that had that profile then, the batch I got after did not have them, Seems like we got them from the same place, but I think Your batch was better looking then mine, well Yours were smoother and Mine were more rough cut, but Mine look fine after surfacing. I have 3 of them with the profile though, so They must have came from you. I think that was some samples You sent me to check out before I bought Mine.

Yeah You did send me some BR, that must be the cool looking squares LOL. That makes more sense because they look more like It to me, and yes there are no profiles in those. I also had them stashed off to the side of the other rosewoods, so that would make sense as well.

That's the reason I asked the question, because I read the mention of a profile here, and I couldn't not tell the difference in the EI that I bought, and the squares with the profile cut into them. Now I know It's because they are the same. The BR squares that I had stashed to the side are definitely different looking then those.

Hey buddy If You can save me one of those small scales, so that I can compare with what I have here just to make sure I'd really appreciate It. I don't need it right now, will just get you to send it later if that's ok.

Thanks for the clarification.

Greg
 
Here is a picture of the end grain ofwhat the one guy (film) is selling. The grain is much darker is darker than the lousy picture.

Mario
 
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It smells good enough to eat....I cut a thin a slice out of four different squares from four different suppliers, some had more black than others going through it but the smell was the same. :)

Mario
 
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