jump sticks and 14.1
- Thread starter pulzcul
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Not p*ssing my pants. Like I said, I'm old school and don't believe in jumping. Jumping is yet another by-product of Texas Express rules (bad hit = ball in hand). Wanna jump? Play TE 9-ball. There's no need for it in 14.1.
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You "purists" make me laugh! If you have the means to pocket the ball, jump cue or not, it's a shot you have in your bag of tricks. Kamui Chalk is similar to a jump cue, a new innovation that gives you an edge, will you never use that? Sans the cost of course. What about all these layered tips and different hardness of tips, another innovation, why not just use the chunk of leather they used 50+ years ago, that's "purist" for you.
The game has evolved leaps and bounds, if there is a rule forbidding the use of a jump cue, you have the right to complain. If there is no rule and you state you would quit right then if some one used a jump cue, you need to sit in the corner with all the other non-playing/think they can play/I know it all individuals that whine about everything that are in every pool hall.
The game has evolved leaps and bounds, if there is a rule forbidding the use of a jump cue, you have the right to complain. If there is no rule and you state you would quit right then if some one used a jump cue, you need to sit in the corner with all the other non-playing/think they can play/I know it all individuals that whine about everything that are in every pool hall.
There IS a rule forbidding a jump cue in 14.1 (BCA).
Obviously you know very little about 14.1 and the way it's played. It's basically the same game Willie played 60 years ago.
Then re-read my post, then it's a foul, you have the right to complain....and call the foul.
I know plenty about 14.1...Did they have jump cues 60 years ago? As technology evolves, can the rules not change? Did they have layered tips 60 years ago? The rules changed for that.
It's "basically" the same game Willie played? When you say basically, does that mean it has changed in some form? That's what I thought. If you want to play it the way they did 60 years ago, I'm totally down with that and you have every right to feel that way. However, when the game evolves due to equipment, ie the PGA, you have new rules that you may or may not agree with.
There were no jump cues because there was no need to jump. There is no such thing as a bad hit in 14.1 (and there still isn't - as long as you hit ANY ball and a rail, it's a legal shot). There was also no need to jump in 9-ball, either. REAL 9-ball was played with 2 shot roll out, i.e. you could push on any shot. Jumping is a result of Texas Express rules (bad hit = ball in hand).
And please cite me a rule in 14.1 that has changed because of layered tips.
And why on earth would you want to jump over a ball when shooting the combination is a higher percentage shot anyway? I'll shoot a combination over a jump anyday.
Winston, so we're on the same page, I don't think we're talking about jump-shot scenarios where combinations also exist. For the sake of this thread, let's assume the shooter is obstructed by a cluster.
With that said, if the obstruction is slight and only a small jump is needed to pocket a relative hanger, I don't think you'll find a player in the past 60 years that will not take that jump shot. On the other hand, if the shot requires jumping over an entire ball and/or the object ball is not hanging near the pocket, it would be regarded as foolish then and now.
Personally, I would rather not see jump cues used in 14.1 because of a number of reasons but most importantly because 14.1 has the game's most cherished record - 526 consecutive balls pocketed. In my humble and personal opinion, in order to break this record, one would have to do so with the same exact cue for each and every shot which is a player requirement as opposed to equipment requirements which players cannot control (ie., size of table, size of pockets, etc).
If I'm locked up and the only option I have to pocket a ball is by jumping, what's the big deal? Maybe I don't want to play safe? Maybe I'm more comfortable jumping the ball than shooting a combo? If I pocket that ball via jump, I continue my run, how is that such a travesty of the game? I can kick just fine, but I can jump like a kangaroo...with accuracy and gain shape. Why should I be penalized? One pocket has went from the slow, methodical play to guys firing at everything and running out..that wasn't the game I saw 20+ years ago, it has changed...evolved.
As for a specific 14.1 rule, I was referring to rules in general. Equipment rules change often, just look at the phenolic tip....Legal on day, illegal the next. New tips came to fruition, the rules had to be changed to allow or disallow them.
The point here is that I'm not disagreeing with you, if you want to play "old school", that's great and I would have no problem with playing that way either. But don't bust balls when someone wants to go out of the norm of the "purist" views.
Jude, we are on the same page. I am talking about a flat out jump shot. I understand what you're saying, just that for me, I would be a little more comfortable using a little spin/masse in that situation - again, not masseing around a whole ball, but just to get around an edge to a ball that's a relative hanger.
Whoever said I was busting balls? 14.1 is an "old-school" game. There is no top player in the world today that would be foolish enough to try a jump shot in a match - unless he wants to spend the rest of it sitting or he's 1000% sure he's going to make it AND control the cue ball.
Please let's not turn 14.1 and one hole into this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqos3x-7JKY&feature=related
Don't get me wrong I have a jump cue and can use it but not for non-jumping games. What's next sex in church? OK I change my mind. Sign me up.
Nick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqos3x-7JKY&feature=related
Don't get me wrong I have a jump cue and can use it but not for non-jumping games. What's next sex in church? OK I change my mind. Sign me up.
Nick
Just a question.
Suppose I`m playing with my jump/break cue as my player.It has a leather tip and I can still jump over a full ball about 1 1/4 balls away with a full cue not broke down for jumping.Am I committing a foul?Also would some of you quit because I just(if not a foul)made a shot you don`t agree with even though it is not a foul.
It is no different than someone knowing the diamond system and someone not knowing it.Everyone has the chance to learn they just have to choose to do so.I agree if the rules state it is not allowed then it is not allowed but if I make a perfectly legal shot and someone quits me because they don`t think it`s right then that person needs to fina new game to play grow up.Not trying to start a war just a honest question.
Suppose I`m playing with my jump/break cue as my player.It has a leather tip and I can still jump over a full ball about 1 1/4 balls away with a full cue not broke down for jumping.Am I committing a foul?Also would some of you quit because I just(if not a foul)made a shot you don`t agree with even though it is not a foul.
It is no different than someone knowing the diamond system and someone not knowing it.Everyone has the chance to learn they just have to choose to do so.I agree if the rules state it is not allowed then it is not allowed but if I make a perfectly legal shot and someone quits me because they don`t think it`s right then that person needs to fina new game to play grow up.Not trying to start a war just a honest question.
Actually George "Ginky" Sansouci made a jump shot in the final of the 1999 National 14.1 Championship. It was a fairly tough shot but he made it and won the match and tournament.
If you can play the whole game with that and not break it down during your "jump sessions"...fill your boots.
Jump cue vs Diamond system? I think your stretching your poetic license there. We are not playing ball in hand rotation here. You have options.
Nick
Jump cue vs Diamond system? I think your stretching your poetic license there. We are not playing ball in hand rotation here. You have options.
Nick
You're making it sound like if someone uses a jump cue, they are pond scum...and who said we were talking about "top players"? I give up, if it's ok with the rules and I feel comfortable with the shot, what's the big deal? You feel if I shoot the jump shot, I'm a total moron, have no idea what's going on and making a travesty of the game. At least I was open minded to say I'd gladly play with no jump cue if the rules forbid it, even if someone did whip out a jump cue, I'd still play, I would quit like you have stated. I'll never quit a game in that scenario and kinda sad you would....but i guess you are who you are.
You get it, thanks!
Just to be clear, the BCA and the WPA rules are the same and there is no prohibition against jump cues, though the phenolic tip would probably disallow it. The BCAPL (Mark Griffin's Pool League, not affiliated with the BCA) does expressly disallow using other than your playing cue to jump balls in straight pool.
Did he whip out a jump cue for the shot?
I'm an elder. Using a jump cue is smash-mouth straight pool. Frankly though, while I wouldn't use one myself I'd probably not mind if my opponent did. I tells me he has no concept of the potential penalty of a missed shot in straight pool, even against me. :wink:
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