APA..change your rules...

The $ is to compete at the venue.

I am not a member of APA (nor do I want to be), however "my" league owner makes this very clear. A player must make the trip to be entitled to any trip funds. If you don't go to Vegas to compete and support your team, then you are due nothing.
 
tigerseye said:
Paid my fees every week for a year, win the trip to Vegas but due to my
1st born i could not attend the week they were having the event...
I asked what would happen? Well my league operator said there was nothing she could do...i dont win anything at all.
All in the mean time she keeps asking me if i am gonna attend,and if not she didnt want to spend the money on a plane ticket....
So i figured she would attempt to figure out a way to compensate me for my time and my hard earned money i put into this APA league...
No compensation is apparently in order for me.
I have contacted APA and they are on board with there colleague...

:(:(:(:(:(
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Here is what I have seen in the past. Say you are going, and get the ticket. Change the ticket to a credit, then you and whoever go wherever and you pay the difference.

I have also seen the money that has been set aside for the ticket go the player in addition to the money set aside for the room. Either way, you won it and deserve the money. Too bad your operator can't see it that way.
 
sloanst said:
I am not a member of APA (nor do I want to be), however "my" league owner makes this very clear. A player must make the trip to be entitled to any trip funds. If you don't go to Vegas to compete and support your team, then you are due nothing.
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That's exactly how they lay it out for us, too. They're pretty explicit when it comes to that, they leave no room for interpretation.
In some cases, the winner(s) are required to purchase everything first, and provide proof, before the LO will release the funds.

Don't try to circumvent the league by 'buying a ticket and then changing it'. Hell, you'll already be down a c-note just for changing the ticket. What's the point ?

It's pretty simple. If you want to play for money,then play in a tournament that pays back money.
 
Roger Long said:
I don't think it's fair for you to accuse someone of being crooked when you have no proof of such. I talked with the local APA operator in my area about this tonight, and he explained it to me the same as the APA LO in this thread explained it to you: the APA has strict rules as to what happens to monies in situations like this and the LO's are subject to audits to make sure those rules are adhered to. I seriously doubt that any LO would risk losing their franchise just to pocket one person's plane ticket money.

The APA does have their rules, and they're probably not going to change them just to satisfy you.

Roger
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See the problem here is one league operator would do it one way another will do it another way but all in all their LO would have done something for the player for his/her efforts... EXCEPT MINE...So therefore...CROOK..
Does that clear things up for ya??
 
Mickey Qualls said:
I can't tell from your post if this is a trip that you won outright in a tournament, or if this was more of a 'Luck of the Draw' kind of thing. I also don't know if any alternates were selected in the event someone could not make the trip.
I sympathize with your plight. You feel like you tried to do the right thing and were left out in the cold. I'm going to try and put myself in your shoes for a moment.........

I've played in a few different leagues, and there are tournaments that specify that you are 'playing for the opportunity to play in Las Vegas'. If you cannot, for WHATEVER reason, play in the tournament, you forfeit any prize money/entry fees and whatever else is associated with that trip. The majority of the leagues that I've played in draw at least two 'alternates' in the event that the first person picked cannot attend. Then the league has done it's job by sending someone to represent them in Las Vegas.
Flip the coin..... what if you were drawn as an alternate, but the LO chose to give the monies to the player that couldn't attend ? At this point, my only beef would be if someone else was sent to Las Vegas to represent the league in my place (and I could accept that), or if the LO kept that money for themselves (that would be uncool).

Based on what you've posted in this thread regarding this subject....
In my opinion, the league really owes you nothing. Yes, the timing is unfortunate, but that's the way things are. You kind of have to swallow the pill on this one.
If the LO makes the exception for you, then Pandora's Box has been opened for every other player to simply 'take the money', and not the trip. The whole concept behind the trip is to have league representation at national events.

Hope this helps.
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No one was sent in my place to represent this league...
 
Scott Lee said:
Here's how I handled this exact situation, when I was an APA LO twenty years ago. In the tournament to determine which team got the trip to Vegas, I paid cash prizes to the other teams playing in the tournament, and vying for the trip. The team that won decided, as a team, that they couldn't/didn't want to go to Vegas. The team that took 2nd DID want to go. I allowed the 2nd place team to swap their prize money ($800 total) with the 1st place team...and they took the trip (which I paid out $1500 for entry fee, travel expenses, hotel rooms and 'spending money'). If the 1st place team had not agreed to the switch, they would have gotten nothing...and the money would have been put back into my league. Just because you win doesn't mean that you can swap the prize out for cash or something else.

In the case of the OP, I would have just taken the trip 'money'; allowed my team to find another substitute player, and had them pay me for the plane ticket and hotel room.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Not the same situation but at least you tried to make things right for your players...
 
sloanst said:
I am not a member of APA (nor do I want to be), however "my" league owner makes this very clear. A player must make the trip to be entitled to any trip funds. If you don't go to Vegas to compete and support your team, then you are due nothing.
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I dont think you understand....I COULD NOT GO DUE TO THE BIRTH OF MY SON....
There is a difference than just not deciding to go...understand??
 
tigerseye said:
See the problem here is one league operator would do it one way another will do it another way but all in all their LO would have done something for the player for his/her efforts... EXCEPT MINE...So therefore...CROOK..
Does that clear things up for ya??
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Nope! No one has said that the other LO's would all do something for "the" player. What they've said is that APA rules dictate that unused monies have to go toward something for their "players" (plural). So, you're still accusing someone of stealing "your" money solely on your suspicion, rather than on proof. That's not too wise. I hope you don't slip up and start using real names here.

On the other hand, if you ever do find proof that this LO has actually misappropriated league money, I'll be more than happy to offer my sincerest apology. :o

Roger
 
You.ve received some greta badvice and opinions but rememeber that everyone has an opinion so we all can't be right. Ultimately go with your gut but here's how I assess your situation. You obviously have reason to be upset and most of us would. But when you're not involved with the situation at hand, sometimes you see things from a different perspective....and that's not imply, and I hope you don't infer, that my opinion is more valid than anyone else's.

The APA Operator has to remain squeaky clean so that it never appears that trip awards can be converted into cash by the recipient. The IRS frowns upon that and it's not uncommon for similae sitautions to arise in business. Case in point, two years ago I won a sales contest for my compamy but due to a workers comp injury, I couldn't go on the sales trip. IN fact, I was on disability leave when the trip took place.....Oh Blah Dee Oh Blah Daa....the company sent someone else in my place because they couldn't, or wouldn't, alter the contest rules so that it might appear they were paying out a cash award when in fact it was intended to be a sales.business trip. Go on a cruise for 6 dats and you have two breakfast meetings of 60-75 minutes and it's a write off with no associated payroll expenses otherwise incurred with cash patments which are non-reimbursed business expenses. I know it sounds like a bunch of crap but it's easier tocomply with the rules than attempt to circumvent them. Best advice I've heard is just take the tickets....I would....but I'd say something like I'm planning to go so go make my reservations....then see if tyou can return the tickets for a flight at a later date, or see if they can be cashed in, or see if you can sell them on-line auctions etc.

It stinks but the Operator is just trying to avoid potential headaches and problems that only they'd incur and not you. Imagine the situation if next year 5 people came up withreasons that sounded valid. DOes everyone get a refund....it becomes Pandora's Box....once you open it everything changes and eveyone has an opinion about that as well. I know the APA Operator isn't able to send a substitute for you but if that was the case, it would be more understandable...right? But because that is allowableunder APA, the Operatpr would otherwise seem to be benefiting from this but only the Operator knows whether they're doing it for personal monetary gains or just to remain consistent in how this type of situation is treated now and in the future.

Matt
 
tigerseye said:
See the problem here is one league operator would do it one way another will do it another way but all in all their LO would have done something for the player for his/her efforts... EXCEPT MINE...So therefore...CROOK..
Does that clear things up for ya??
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I wouldn't have done anything for you in lieu of travel assistance, either. I provide trophies at the event, so you would get a trophy, but the travel assistance is for those who travel.

I took a look at your operator's bylaws, and came across this paragraph:

"The winning teams that advance from the LTC to the Nationals will be required to play in the next League year’s summer session. They will receive Travel Assistance. If a team elects not to go, Travel Assistance will be given to the teams and players that actually attend the National event."

Now, I know this doesn't specifically address an INDIVIDUAL who doesn't go, but I think a reasonable person reading it could figure out how much Travel Assistance she "stole" from you.
 
tigerseye said:
I dont think you understand....I COULD NOT GO DUE TO THE BIRTH OF MY SON....
There is a difference than just not deciding to go...understand??
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Congratulations on the birth of your son, by the way. Fun times ahead for you, and WAY more important than any pool league or other leisure activity.

But it's still a choice - a really, really easy choice, but a choice nonetheless. Maybe you can't imagine choosing the trip, but trust me when I say I know guys who would do just that. It's good to know that you're not one of them.
 
APA Operator said:
Congratulations on the birth of your son, by the way. Fun times ahead for you, and WAY more important than any pool league or other leisure activity.

But it's still a choice - a really, really easy choice, but a choice nonetheless. Maybe you can't imagine choosing the trip, but trust me when I say I know guys who would do just that. It's good to know that you're not one of them.
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Tap, tap, tap. True, true, true.
 
tigerseye said:
Why couldnt i get the plane ticket money?? Obviously there was money put into a holding account for 4 players to fly....
I was honest about not being able to go and now i get nothing for my honesty...
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Why should you get any of the travel money?? I've been on team's before where somebody had to miss the trip, they wouldn't get a share of the travel money, that money would be split by the team members who did go. but all the team members would get a share of any money the team won in vegas.
 
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APA Operator said:
I wouldn't have done anything for you in lieu of travel assistance, either. I provide trophies at the event, so you would get a trophy, but the travel assistance is for those who travel.

I took a look at your operator's bylaws, and came across this paragraph:

"The winning teams that advance from the LTC to the Nationals will be required to play in the next League year’s summer session. They will receive Travel Assistance. If a team elects not to go, Travel Assistance will be given to the teams and players that actually attend the National event."

Now, I know this doesn't specifically address an INDIVIDUAL who doesn't go, but I think a reasonable person reading it could figure out how much Travel Assistance she "stole" from you.
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Is this becoming an apa rule that you have to play in the summer session?
 
Hey try this ask the lo can you sale your spot do to your son coming ? And if that works to remind them ,( lo ) that mr or Ms xyz will be receving your part of your money when they land there . Get it all in black and white . Good luck onthe new born .. Sorry about the Bs ...
 
cookie man said:
Is this becoming an apa rule that you have to play in the summer session?
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It's not a national rule. It's in a lot of bylaws, though. Some require the team to play, others require the team members to play, but not necessarily on that team.

It has to do with the 2 1/2 month lag between the Local Team Championship and Nationals. It's supposed to deter teams from taking the Summer off and putting their lower-skilled players through intensive training so they can surprise everyone with how well they play at Nationals.
 
W
Roger Long said:
Nope! No one has said that the other LO's would all do something for "the" player. What they've said is that APA rules dictate that unused monies have to go toward something for their "players" (plural). So, you're still accusing someone of stealing "your" money solely on your suspicion, rather than on proof. That's not too wise. I hope you don't slip up and start using real names here.

On the other hand, if you ever do find proof that this LO has actually misappropriated league money, I'll be more than happy to offer my sincerest apology. :o

Roger
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I understand that they cant give me cash...i am only asking for some kind of compensation. Wether it be paid league fees for a couple sessions or my plane ticket to vegas this year...Anything but tough crap...
 
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