This is not an entirely true statement. When the two balls collide the object ball skids away before taking the table's friction and turning into roll. If any top spin could be imparted it would be negligible to the shot.
randyg
Using draw causes more misses?
- Thread starter scottjen26
- Start date
This is not an entirely true statement. When the two balls collide the object ball skids away before taking the table's friction and turning into roll. If any top spin could be imparted it would be negligible to the shot.
randyg
Randy, won't draw on an cue ball impart enough top on an object ball to make it follow into the pocket when shooting a combo?
I think the momentum of a forward rolling OB- as opposed to one that is sliding, as is the case in the early portions of a hard hit OB- is what carries it thru.
I'm glad to see my question wasn't that stupid after all, and probably why I keep hearing this from players who are convinced that draw itself is responsible for them missing on tight tables.
I agree that some small amount of follow (2% - 3% I think is the amount of spin imparted to the OB?) might be imparted to the OB if the CB is hit with draw. But since most of these shots are missed when hitting at speed, the amount of spin transferred is negligible.
I told several people recently, and demonstrated, that I can hit the ball as hard as I want with draw, follow, center, english, etc. and if it hits the right part of the pocket and doesn't touch the rail on the way in it goes, period. Obviously if it's so hard that it's bouncing that could impact things, but any normal power draw or follow or stun shot is no different in my opinion than a slower shot, just the margin for error is smaller and as another posted mentioned people's strokes are usually less accurate at that level of power, so a less accurate stroke at a tighter effective pocket means more misses. Not because of the draw itself, or any other spin.
Like I said, I try to educate some of the players in the room who ask questions and help dispel myths and teach them things that I know to be true, but this one came up so much recently I just wanted to make sure the answer I thought was obvious, and the one that makes sense, was the right answer.
Scott
I agree that some small amount of follow (2% - 3% I think is the amount of spin imparted to the OB?) might be imparted to the OB if the CB is hit with draw. But since most of these shots are missed when hitting at speed, the amount of spin transferred is negligible.
I told several people recently, and demonstrated, that I can hit the ball as hard as I want with draw, follow, center, english, etc. and if it hits the right part of the pocket and doesn't touch the rail on the way in it goes, period. Obviously if it's so hard that it's bouncing that could impact things, but any normal power draw or follow or stun shot is no different in my opinion than a slower shot, just the margin for error is smaller and as another posted mentioned people's strokes are usually less accurate at that level of power, so a less accurate stroke at a tighter effective pocket means more misses. Not because of the draw itself, or any other spin.
Like I said, I try to educate some of the players in the room who ask questions and help dispel myths and teach them things that I know to be true, but this one came up so much recently I just wanted to make sure the answer I thought was obvious, and the one that makes sense, was the right answer.
Scott
Yes draw will make the ball your hitting follow the ball it hits into the pocket if their in a straight line of coarse.
You can't be more wrong. Part of the angular momentum that the cue ball carries while spinning is converted into "linear" momentum (the kind of momentum that you are referring to) when encountered with a rail. What makes this happen is the friction force between the rail and the cue ball at the time of contact.
Depending on how the ball is struck (speed, amount of english) and the characteristics of the rail and the ball (new, old, defects, etc.) this may be the deciding factor on the game.
Stick around, seems that you have a lot to learn
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I would definitely have to agree with Brandoncook26 on this. A cue ball shot with running english can come into a rail very slowly and shoot off the rail because of the running english.
Stick around, seems that you have a lot to learn
It seems a lot of us may come out of this thread learning something.
agreed, interesting discussion so far.
You can't be more wrong. Part of the angular momentum that the cue ball carries while spinning is converted into "linear" momentum (the kind of momentum that you are referring to) when encountered with a rail. What makes this happen is the friction force between the rail and the cue ball at the time of contact.
Depending on how the ball is struck (speed, amount of english) and the characteristics of the rail and the ball (new, old, defects, etc.) this may be the deciding factor on the game.
Stick around, seems that you have a lot to learn
:angry:...there should be a tilted smily. One where there 's steam from his head and he quivers.
If you are lined up correctly and hit draw with a good smooth stroke than there shouldnt be a difference do to pocket size. The only problem I see with draw shot (or rail shots for that matter) is the pockets that spit out perfectly hit shots!!! You know what im talking about!!! Those pockets with the corner points facing 11 and 1 o'clock. The ones where you hit a beautiful and PERFECT force follow or draw shot and its on its way in and.. RATTLEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry: Then you can complain!!!!
I was told by a well established professional that when you play on tables with smaller pockets (4 1/2 or smaller) you need to use a FIRMER grip on your cue and hit the balls a lot harder (not to mention smooth) in order to pocket balls on certain shots. Not that you dont use finese shots on these tables but when the situation arises and you have to come with that stroke and you better hit it GOOD!!!!!
Oh and to add to the topic i was also informed to play with a smaller shaft with a smaller tip to get that pin point accuarcy
I was told by a well established professional that when you play on tables with smaller pockets (4 1/2 or smaller) you need to use a FIRMER grip on your cue and hit the balls a lot harder (not to mention smooth) in order to pocket balls on certain shots. Not that you dont use finese shots on these tables but when the situation arises and you have to come with that stroke and you better hit it GOOD!!!!!
Oh and to add to the topic i was also informed to play with a smaller shaft with a smaller tip to get that pin point accuarcy
Agreed also. Might come in handy :thumbup:
Oh and to add to the topic i was also informed to play with a smaller shaft with a smaller tip to get that pin point accuarcy
I guess that eliminates me, then. I play with 13mm+ because I have larger than normal hands. Those smaller shafts (OB Classic, Predator Z, etc.) feel to me like I'm holding a pencil.
Great tread scott.
What I have seen over the years, is that players raise the back end of the Q to much, thinking that they are going to be getting more of a draw. Then, they would try to power shot the OB in.
Even myself I have caught myself and self correct to bring my arm down to have a more tip to CB, and lighten the stroke with alittle more wrist (snap) follow through. I am potting more OB's on rails then if I didn't pick this up from watching some of the better players. Even (semi)straight shots, with self correcting with what I just said I am getting a better back spin throw.
Then you have the players that are hitting way to low on the CB, then your seeing players missing because they scoup the CB.
When I see new players and they are struggling, I will ask them if they what alittle help, show them that these little tricks. And just watch the smile when they get the draw they were hoping for.
*cheers*
What I have seen over the years, is that players raise the back end of the Q to much, thinking that they are going to be getting more of a draw. Then, they would try to power shot the OB in.
Even myself I have caught myself and self correct to bring my arm down to have a more tip to CB, and lighten the stroke with alittle more wrist (snap) follow through. I am potting more OB's on rails then if I didn't pick this up from watching some of the better players. Even (semi)straight shots, with self correcting with what I just said I am getting a better back spin throw.
Then you have the players that are hitting way to low on the CB, then your seeing players missing because they scoup the CB.
When I see new players and they are struggling, I will ask them if they what alittle help, show them that these little tricks. And just watch the smile when they get the draw they were hoping for.
*cheers*
You can't be more wrong. Part of the angular momentum that the cue ball carries while spinning is converted into "linear" momentum (the kind of momentum that you are referring to) when encountered with a rail. What makes this happen is the friction force between the rail and the cue ball at the time of contact.
Depending on how the ball is struck (speed, amount of english) and the characteristics of the rail and the ball (new, old, defects, etc.) this may be the deciding factor on the game.
Stick around, seems that you have a lot to learn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-wrJObGCew&NR=1
Pay attention to the speed of the one ball. How can spin take any affect at that speed?
I feel your equipment should accommodate the cue ball.
..knew a man with hands like pie plates who played world-class snooker
with a 10mm cue.
I think the draw on the cue ball starts the 1st object ball off with a little top which allows it to pick up the natural roll faster.. If that makes since.
Well, my hands have been referred to as "frying pans" among other things (bear paws, etc.), but I just cannot get used to a shaft that thin. In fact, I just gave up on a 12.5mm shaft.
MitchAlsup...Cuestick acceration and cuestick velocity are the same thing. Wrist snap has nothing to do with how much, how easily, or how far you can draw the CB. It's all about how smooth the transition is between the end of the backswing, and the forward stroke...and letting the cue do the work (versus using muscle).
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com