master9baller
Banned
Geez all that talent and no heart. What a shame. Well if you get a heart transplant you know where I am. And yeah you can have the 7, but what do you do when you lose the first set?
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APA in Fulton NY A MUST READ STORY
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Geez all that talent and no heart. What a shame. Well if you get a heart transplant you know where I am. And yeah you can have the 7, but what do you do when you lose the first set?
master9baller
Banned
So you beat touring pros and Dennis Hatch at these events? Oh really? Maybe I know your name then....what was it again?
I'm not the one talking down to every poster and claiming to be the better player, or claiming to resolve your issues by playing for money.
Besides, nowhere did I ever say I beat touring pros, you just tend to improperly jump to your own conclusions. My intention of that statement was to show that with all that talk you have, you cant even cash at a Joss Event on the Main bracket, only at the second chance event which are races to 3. You dont need to beat Dennis Hatch to cash at the main bracket, you just need to beat him to WIN the event.
master9baller
Banned
FYI I only played 2 Joss events this year and cashed 1st in the 2nd chance event in one beating 7 or so A-AA1 players in a row and beat a player named Bucky Sovanthong in the other. The next Joss stop he double dipped Hatch for the win. A great guy and player who you may have heard of, he won the SBE open this year. I wish they were more opportunities to test myself in tournament play, but there just isn't. If you are not aware the pool scene up here is dying on the vine. The regional tour we had is a shadow of it's former self and all the tournamnets here are suffering.
I've played 3 Turning Stone events thus far, will play again in September. I've played some real talented players there. I play not because I am a worlbeater, but because I will play anyone.
I know the level of my game and I'll put it into play with anyone and if they need it they will get whatever weight they require to have a chance at the cash.
If I misunderstood your statement,then please, what were you trying to say?
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let me be the 1st to say its a bummer to hear you are not allowed to play and i do hope you win your appeal. keep us posted on the outcome.
i would like to take the time here to give you a different perspective of how some people have reacted to some of your posts and a little friendly advice . please dont think i am being critical or judgemental of you.
you are the 1st person on this forum that i have ever got in a pi$$ing match with. you are the only one that has ever given me red rep also (understandable since i went off you in one particular post).
in some posts you come across as a pretty level headed decent guy but the minute some one posts a different view you becme very confrontational. other times you come across as brash and cocky about your playing ability ( which is ok to an extent ) . its fine to be confident in yourself ( but you take it to a level that borders arrogance ). yet you show obvious disdain for an opponent that displays those same characteristics.
again i am not trying to pass judgement on you as a person as i dont know you personaly. just trying to explain how you come across in some of your posts. if the opportunity ever arose i wouldnt mind meeting you , playing a little and maybe picking up a few pointers from you.
hope you take the time to really think about what i posted and reflect back on some of the comments you posted before you go off and red rep me again
again good luck with your appeal.
in
i would like to take the time here to give you a different perspective of how some people have reacted to some of your posts and a little friendly advice . please dont think i am being critical or judgemental of you.
you are the 1st person on this forum that i have ever got in a pi$$ing match with. you are the only one that has ever given me red rep also (understandable since i went off you in one particular post).
in some posts you come across as a pretty level headed decent guy but the minute some one posts a different view you becme very confrontational. other times you come across as brash and cocky about your playing ability ( which is ok to an extent ) . its fine to be confident in yourself ( but you take it to a level that borders arrogance ). yet you show obvious disdain for an opponent that displays those same characteristics.
again i am not trying to pass judgement on you as a person as i dont know you personaly. just trying to explain how you come across in some of your posts. if the opportunity ever arose i wouldnt mind meeting you , playing a little and maybe picking up a few pointers from you.
hope you take the time to really think about what i posted and reflect back on some of the comments you posted before you go off and red rep me again
again good luck with your appeal.
in
master9baller
Banned
let me be the 1st to say its a bummer to hear you are not allowed to play and i do hope you win your appeal. keep us posted on the outcome.
i would like to take the time here to give you a different perspective of how some people have reacted to some of your posts and a little friendly advice . please dont think i am being critical or judgemental of you.
you are the 1st person on this forum that i have ever got in a pi$$ing match with. you are the only one that has ever given me red rep also (understandable since i went off you in one particular post).
in some posts you come across as a pretty level headed decent guy but the minute some one posts a different view you becme very confrontational. other times you come across as brash and cocky about your playing ability ( which is ok to an extent ) . its fine to be confident in yourself ( but you take it to a level that borders arrogance ). yet you show obvious disdain for an opponent that displays those same characteristics.
again i am not trying to pass judgement on you as a person as i dont know you personaly. just trying to explain how you come across in some of your posts. if the opportunity ever arose i wouldnt mind meeting you , playing a little and maybe picking up a few pointers from you.
hope you take the time to really think about what i posted and reflect back on some of the comments you posted before you go off and red rep me again
again good luck with your appeal.
in
Points taken.
You see what people will do when they are annonymous, outnumber you or have the authority to do whatever they choose. Several members here go on to challege me and say I am a liar, say I have reason to spin things. I have no reason to lie about anythng I post here or in my real life. Baby I am an open book, even going so far to let them know I got kicked in the nuts and can't go to the tournament.
As far as people woffing and responding to it, it's real simple for me. The answer is yes, I'll play for cash, been doing it for some time now. It seems I have some games waiting for me in Vegas perhaps, that's cool.
So I have 2 local guys who annonymously call me out, WTF?? They post my name, events I've played so what? To them I say just show yourselves, post the cash and play. I mean it's very simple right? Are you men or mice?
This site used to have so much less of this BS, now it's continual.
Just curious but is your league on barboxes???
Oh and if you beat Bucky I need the last 3 and the break :smile: I played in the TS event in December of last year did you play aswell?? Too bad Greg Antanokas catch me on the worst day of my pool player life
He played great but man I couldnt get a roll!!! Ill be up in Binghamton in August and might play with Bucky and Lee Sibly.. Be nice to see what you got
master9baller
Banned
Just curious but is your league on barboxes???
Oh and if you beat Bucky I need the last 3 and the break :smile: I played in the TS event in December of last year did you play aswell?? Too bad Greg Antanokas catch me on the worst day of my pool player life
Ill be up in Binghamton in August and might play with Bucky and Lee Sibly.. Be nice to see what you got
Beating Bucky in his prime meant alot to me. That man can flat out play. That's why I like the chance to play guys like him, because I know I can rise up to a very high level. I broke and ran a 7 pack almost 2 years ago. Too bad it was for a $10 bill. Back then I was beating the ghost on my home table more often than not.
Binghampton is a ways south of me, what are you playing there, a event of just coming home and playing?
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Yeah Bucky is a beast!!!! Known the guy since he was a young gun at the age of 16!!! Very proud of him for his accomplishments. How many guys can say the double dipped HATCH for the CHEDDAR!!!!!
My new born son will be there to be baptized with the rest of the family since im from Binghamton. I may make it up to Cortland while im there to play Damian at the 77 club or maybe just to my teachers house in Trumansburg (outside of ithaca).... Lee Sibly was my teachers idol growning up so I contacted Lee about making a SURPRISE visit to his house... Its the least i could do for the old man :lol:
My new born son will be there to be baptized with the rest of the family since im from Binghamton. I may make it up to Cortland while im there to play Damian at the 77 club or maybe just to my teachers house in Trumansburg (outside of ithaca).... Lee Sibly was my teachers idol growning up so I contacted Lee about making a SURPRISE visit to his house... Its the least i could do for the old man :lol:
master9baller
Banned
Just one question
So as I understand it I am barred from playing the Masters Tournament because of 2 reasons as explained by Brad Rees the league operator.
1) I "must have done something" to agitate the opposing player to hit me during the handshake. Sort of like the old days when girls were thought to have "caused" men to attack them in the classic rape defense. Pretty archaic and simplistic way of looking at things really.
2) Tonight when he called me he said I sharked my opponent by telling him to "Bet from here" after he was up 2-0. He was talking trash earlier about how his team was going to win, betting it was so and I ignored him, knowing it wasn't permitted. So in the heat of it, when he was getting bold up 2-0 and pulling moves I said it. He threw down money and I smiled at him and said "you don't mean it" and play continued. At no time did I engage in betting anything, just 3 words.
The question is this, if either of those 2 offenses are enough to bar me from playing the Masters Tournament, why would they not be enough to disqualify my win?
Its nonsense that he bars me from playing the Vegas event, but lets my set of 7-2 count towards our 15-8 win total right? To me this underscores that this is just Mr. Rees's way of penalizing me alone because that's what he's after anyway. Just trying to take some of my scalp for his buddies that could not intimidate me. The other 3 persons on my team are from the area and have played APA before, so he really isn't after alienating them either.
I had written Mr Rees and told him that doing the right thing is easy, just do it. You have to forgo the fact that you may have to tell friends and business associates they were wrong. He took the chichen$hit way out and nailed me just to save face with his people. His ruling against me is simple retribution. He's made all the money he ever will from me, now he'll have to earn it.
I will file the appeal with the APA next week and point out the many discrepancies in how the LO handled this. I will also do what I can to ensure that the remaining 2 players get what sanctions they deserve. I'm down here and no doubt fighting a losing battle, but that doesn't mean I won't fight it. I'm hopeful that someone who handles the appeal will be open to consider the situation I was placed in and allow me to play with my team at the Masters Event.
So as I understand it I am barred from playing the Masters Tournament because of 2 reasons as explained by Brad Rees the league operator.
1) I "must have done something" to agitate the opposing player to hit me during the handshake. Sort of like the old days when girls were thought to have "caused" men to attack them in the classic rape defense. Pretty archaic and simplistic way of looking at things really.
2) Tonight when he called me he said I sharked my opponent by telling him to "Bet from here" after he was up 2-0. He was talking trash earlier about how his team was going to win, betting it was so and I ignored him, knowing it wasn't permitted. So in the heat of it, when he was getting bold up 2-0 and pulling moves I said it. He threw down money and I smiled at him and said "you don't mean it" and play continued. At no time did I engage in betting anything, just 3 words.
The question is this, if either of those 2 offenses are enough to bar me from playing the Masters Tournament, why would they not be enough to disqualify my win?
Its nonsense that he bars me from playing the Vegas event, but lets my set of 7-2 count towards our 15-8 win total right? To me this underscores that this is just Mr. Rees's way of penalizing me alone because that's what he's after anyway. Just trying to take some of my scalp for his buddies that could not intimidate me. The other 3 persons on my team are from the area and have played APA before, so he really isn't after alienating them either.
I had written Mr Rees and told him that doing the right thing is easy, just do it. You have to forgo the fact that you may have to tell friends and business associates they were wrong. He took the chichen$hit way out and nailed me just to save face with his people. His ruling against me is simple retribution. He's made all the money he ever will from me, now he'll have to earn it.
I will file the appeal with the APA next week and point out the many discrepancies in how the LO handled this. I will also do what I can to ensure that the remaining 2 players get what sanctions they deserve. I'm down here and no doubt fighting a losing battle, but that doesn't mean I won't fight it. I'm hopeful that someone who handles the appeal will be open to consider the situation I was placed in and allow me to play with my team at the Masters Event.
master9baller
Banned
Yeah Lee plays amazing for a man of any age, not sure I know all of his accomplishments, but there must be alot of stories he could tell. He used to come to the regional tournament here and do very well for himself.
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I am new here, but have followed the forum for a couple of years (and pool almost forever). I'm up in the NW and when APA came to the area it really opened it up for pool. We had the first team west of the Mississippi win the National 9-ball title (they were from Kent, WA.)
It hurt a lot of action, because if you wanted to play someone the first thing they asked was "what are you rated". Unfortunately, with the upswing in popularity, they had to, of course, recruite people who were not necessarily "into" pool, they were into drinking and happened to be in the bar sponsering the league.
Spent 6 years in the APA. Went to nationals twice and it was AWESOME! The first time I was there Bustamante won the Pro event, ran into him and his crew in the elevator - they were feeling good to say the least.
You would think a masters league would have players who respect the game a little more.
I don't want to bash the APA, because I think it serves a purpose, to get people who would normally be afraid to play with/in front of people to get involved. I will say though, I moved on for that very reason.
Leagues in bars have drunks. I remember (back in the day) "beer frames" each bar put up 2 pitchers of beer, they threw dice for the roster number, you played one game twice a nite over and above league. Losers bought the other team a pitcher.
It hurt a lot of action, because if you wanted to play someone the first thing they asked was "what are you rated". Unfortunately, with the upswing in popularity, they had to, of course, recruite people who were not necessarily "into" pool, they were into drinking and happened to be in the bar sponsering the league.
Spent 6 years in the APA. Went to nationals twice and it was AWESOME! The first time I was there Bustamante won the Pro event, ran into him and his crew in the elevator - they were feeling good to say the least.
You would think a masters league would have players who respect the game a little more.
I don't want to bash the APA, because I think it serves a purpose, to get people who would normally be afraid to play with/in front of people to get involved. I will say though, I moved on for that very reason.
Leagues in bars have drunks. I remember (back in the day) "beer frames" each bar put up 2 pitchers of beer, they threw dice for the roster number, you played one game twice a nite over and above league. Losers bought the other team a pitcher.
master9baller
Banned
APA the fleecing of American pool
Well I did it in reverse, playing conventional big table pool and this was my experience. Certainly not full of the cordial beautiful people that grace the APA website. Have fun, meet people, play pool...Okay whatever. More like meet drunks, get punched and be forced to defend yourself for me.
The promise of this session was a free trip to Vegas. We had 4 teams and they took in nearly $3000 in monies. Our expense fund for winning is $2090, for 4 to get to Vegas and hotel. I would expect to spend perhaps another $800 more than that each in expenses. That's ridiculous as that hardly covers 2 players going. Meanwhile Brad Rees and company take in just short of $1000 for doing what? Collecting score sheets that we leave at a bar, that's what.
Then there's the paid entry of $150 to the Masters Tournament, yeah guys that was our money, thanks for "paying it" for us. There are about 200 leagues that send teams to the masters, the average local tournament to win a spot is certainly more than just 4 teams probably 3 times that anyway. I would estimate the total haul from these 200 league masters qualifying events is say 200 x $3000 so let's just say and about $600,000. Plus imagine the sweet heart deal they must have with the Riviera? I mean they bring thousands of bonafide gamblers---I mean pool players--- to their doors, so they get to fleece them as well.
Have you seen the payouts there that they characterize as "100% payout"? Yeah 100% payout of the $150 entry monies taken in from our dues. However it's not even 10% of the total haul of $600k. How can that be called 100% payback when first gets $7500 and second $3000? The payout are less than a typical pro tournament held with 25K added and 35K in entry fees. By the time you get to 4th it's $1000. Remember those payouts are split 3-4 ways among teammembers. They can't be serious calling that winning anything.
I'd love to know the total haul the APA gets in a year. Great business model really. I mean what are they selling anyway? If the payouts in the other leagues follow suit, just on a much grander scale, it's a real goldmine. Can you imagine that APA central has 50 employees? What do they do there, just count the money all day? This corporate model for tournament pool does nothing to advance pool as it was.
I would say the APA is the bastard child of pool as it was and brother you can keep it. Every rule they have benefits the less skilled players, not so they can ever really win the tournament money, but only to keep them coming in the door. It just waters down what pool really is about to me. I know people find it fun to hang out, drink, shoot a little pool, just like I like to bowl a 130 game once in awhile with my family.
Just know what it is you are getting into when you sign up to give them your hard earned money and what little you may ever see in return. Know full well that when the stuff hits the fan the league operator will side with whatever and whoever keeps the flow of easy money coming in. Because that's all its' about with these guys and the organization. It has nothing to do with "saving pool", I'm afraid that it's beyond saving anymore.
Well I did it in reverse, playing conventional big table pool and this was my experience. Certainly not full of the cordial beautiful people that grace the APA website. Have fun, meet people, play pool...Okay whatever. More like meet drunks, get punched and be forced to defend yourself for me
.The promise of this session was a free trip to Vegas. We had 4 teams and they took in nearly $3000 in monies. Our expense fund for winning is $2090, for 4 to get to Vegas and hotel. I would expect to spend perhaps another $800 more than that each in expenses. That's ridiculous as that hardly covers 2 players going. Meanwhile Brad Rees and company take in just short of $1000 for doing what? Collecting score sheets that we leave at a bar, that's what.
Then there's the paid entry of $150 to the Masters Tournament, yeah guys that was our money, thanks for "paying it" for us. There are about 200 leagues that send teams to the masters, the average local tournament to win a spot is certainly more than just 4 teams probably 3 times that anyway. I would estimate the total haul from these 200 league masters qualifying events is say 200 x $3000 so let's just say and about $600,000. Plus imagine the sweet heart deal they must have with the Riviera? I mean they bring thousands of bonafide gamblers---I mean pool players--- to their doors, so they get to fleece them as well.
Have you seen the payouts there that they characterize as "100% payout"? Yeah 100% payout of the $150 entry monies taken in from our dues. However it's not even 10% of the total haul of $600k. How can that be called 100% payback when first gets $7500 and second $3000? The payout are less than a typical pro tournament held with 25K added and 35K in entry fees. By the time you get to 4th it's $1000. Remember those payouts are split 3-4 ways among teammembers. They can't be serious calling that winning anything.
I'd love to know the total haul the APA gets in a year. Great business model really. I mean what are they selling anyway? If the payouts in the other leagues follow suit, just on a much grander scale, it's a real goldmine. Can you imagine that APA central has 50 employees? What do they do there, just count the money all day? This corporate model for tournament pool does nothing to advance pool as it was.
I would say the APA is the bastard child of pool as it was and brother you can keep it. Every rule they have benefits the less skilled players, not so they can ever really win the tournament money, but only to keep them coming in the door. It just waters down what pool really is about to me. I know people find it fun to hang out, drink, shoot a little pool, just like I like to bowl a 130 game once in awhile with my family.
Just know what it is you are getting into when you sign up to give them your hard earned money and what little you may ever see in return. Know full well that when the stuff hits the fan the league operator will side with whatever and whoever keeps the flow of easy money coming in. Because that's all its' about with these guys and the organization. It has nothing to do with "saving pool", I'm afraid that it's beyond saving anymore.
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master9baller
Banned
I see the same in the pool halls here, APA night is just another reason to drink for many. At the finals last wekend we had the 3 belligerant drunks plus the one individual on another team who passed out on the floor for 3 hours during his team's play. He was drunk from the night before, their team captian no less.
It's a whole different culture really. I feel bad that the players will miss the experience of coming up the ranks, learning from stronger players and seeing the real beauty of the game. Sure they may get a taste of what pool has to offer, but nothing like what they could have.
So now you're trying to "rally the troops", draw support and get people in your corner by turning this into an APA bashing thread ???
Unbelievable........
Unbelievable........
As much as it pains me to say this, if you think pool is dying or dead here in the states, then imagine what it would look like without the APA these last 20 or so years. Of course the APA is all about favoring the less skilled players and bringing new blood into the game....the model is set up for expansion. At some point many of the most highly skilled participants "graduate".
master9baller
Banned
Just keeping you abreast of where I am at, come along or not. If you know nothing about me you must know I am happy to go it alone.
Heard today that the room owner and the non-intoxicated member of the other team tried to stand up for me. Told the LO in front of one of my teammates that I did nothing to provoke anyone.
What place does the truth have anymore anyway? It's all just spin spin spin. Right Mickey.
Mickey, when are we playing pal? That's the only question I have for you. Quit ducking me after you called me out, makes you look foolosh.
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master9baller
Banned
Pp?
God I hope this is the original PP. Man you must be must be Nostradamus or something. Your posts all came true, if only for me. You are one wise individual.
Well I would say the APA is not a place for players like me. It's just way far from what I think pool should be. Besides it's very easy to see that just want your $ and treat you like sheep at slaughter when they choose.
Winning TS? I will be in stroke to be sure, but my winning outright would be the greatest pool story ever! I'll do my best.
Too bad there isn't somewhere that advanced amateurs can compete and do well on a biggger stage. That's the niche I see. Probably for the next league. The APA Masters isn't it.
Spoke to my teammates today and I'll be going no matter what. My friend tells me the practice room there is just like the SBE, open non-stop gambling. Now that sounds like a little slice of heaven to me. They couldn't keep me away. I am only banned from my "next event", which just happens to be the finals. Nothing said about not playing minis or just matching up for the entire trip. This will be fine. My team has another strong player or two in mind that will be there for other events so they will be able to sub in, they will be fine too.
God I hope this is the original PP. Man you must be must be Nostradamus or something. Your posts all came true, if only for me. You are one wise individual.
Well I would say the APA is not a place for players like me. It's just way far from what I think pool should be. Besides it's very easy to see that just want your $ and treat you like sheep at slaughter when they choose.
Winning TS? I will be in stroke to be sure, but my winning outright would be the greatest pool story ever
! I'll do my best.Too bad there isn't somewhere that advanced amateurs can compete and do well on a biggger stage. That's the niche I see. Probably for the next league. The APA Masters isn't it.
Spoke to my teammates today and I'll be going no matter what. My friend tells me the practice room there is just like the SBE, open non-stop gambling. Now that sounds like a little slice of heaven to me. They couldn't keep me away. I am only banned from my "next event", which just happens to be the finals. Nothing said about not playing minis or just matching up for the entire trip. This will be fine. My team has another strong player or two in mind that will be there for other events so they will be able to sub in, they will be fine too.
While in the AF about 12-15 years ago I played on a master's league out of Hampton or Newport News, VA. I think it was an APPA league but I might be wrong. It was a lot of fun, there was probably at least 20 teams in that area and we had a stacked team. One of my teammates got 2nd the year before in the master's singles so we always played me first and then him to get back to back run outs. It was apparently a different format from what you played. It was 3 rounds of a 5-man team taking turns.
Anyway, we win the trip to Vegas and when we were about to leave my supervisor at work told me I was no. 1 on the deployment roster and had to leave for Germany. We switched my tickets with a guy I could give the 7-out to. My supervisor didn't realize I had server access as our intraweb maintenance man so I looked up the deployment roster and found out I was really number 12 on the list.
At that time computer programmer's were getting out after their 4 years was up even though we were offered the highest re-enlistment bonuses because the private sector was paying so much better. If I went to Germany I would have run past my enlistment time and maybe they thought I'd re-enlist if I got to travel the world. Dunno what they were thinking. By the time I realized what they'd done it was too late for me to change tickets back and it would have probably been wrong to invite the guy to take my spot and then take it back so I didn't get to go to Vegas for the 2nd time. I was either the best or a tie for the best on my team and they still got I think 12th spot with a scrub in my place. Would have been fun.
First time I missed out on Vegas I was in Louisiana and you could drink at 18 so I joined a team even though I was underage for the Vegas trip. We won and I had to sit out then too lol. Only two times I've played on leagues that could win a trip to Vegas and we won the trip both times and I couldn't go.
Anyway, we win the trip to Vegas and when we were about to leave my supervisor at work told me I was no. 1 on the deployment roster and had to leave for Germany. We switched my tickets with a guy I could give the 7-out to. My supervisor didn't realize I had server access as our intraweb maintenance man so I looked up the deployment roster and found out I was really number 12 on the list.
At that time computer programmer's were getting out after their 4 years was up even though we were offered the highest re-enlistment bonuses because the private sector was paying so much better. If I went to Germany I would have run past my enlistment time and maybe they thought I'd re-enlist if I got to travel the world. Dunno what they were thinking. By the time I realized what they'd done it was too late for me to change tickets back and it would have probably been wrong to invite the guy to take my spot and then take it back so I didn't get to go to Vegas for the 2nd time. I was either the best or a tie for the best on my team and they still got I think 12th spot with a scrub in my place. Would have been fun.
First time I missed out on Vegas I was in Louisiana and you could drink at 18 so I joined a team even though I was underage for the Vegas trip. We won and I had to sit out then too lol. Only two times I've played on leagues that could win a trip to Vegas and we won the trip both times and I couldn't go.
Brian, I already told you why I'm not going to play you. I'm confident enough in my game to say that I'm sure it would be a good match. But I'm not going to be brazen enough to try and predict a winner. One or two good or bad rolls either way can easily tip the scales one way or the other. Heck, you know that.
That being said, I'm going to change gears here. We can go back and forth with the 'play each other' banter, but one of your more recent posts struck a chord with me.
You're in the Masters Division of the APA. You've played (and cashed) in at least one of the Joss tournaments (second chance or not, that's still an accomplishment). I know the competition can be pretty tough on the Joss tour.
Bucky's a tough cat to beat. Once you let him in, he's there to stay. Kito, Dave Grau, DJ. All those guys are pretty solid. It doesn't take any of them very long to catch a gear.
But any one of them wouldn't hesitate to show a newbie something if they were asked. An alternate grip, a different stance, a solid bridge, etc. As I read your quoted comment above, it begs the following question :
Have you ever offered helpful advice to a lesser skilled player ?
I read the above quoted post, and I'm just curious if you've ever offered to help a player who's struggling with his game, particularly if thier problem is overly apparent.
And that's an honest question. It's not an attempt at a dig or anything.
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