$25 for a piece of chalk is ridiculous!

[The Chinchilla]

Okay, let's assume that it really does a better job than the competition.

Still, how does the manufacturer justify the price premium? Not the player, who may believe that every game he's won is because of the new chalk, but the manufacturer. Is it a special costly material, a very labor intensive process, or special machinery that dictates the expensive price? Or is it just charging what you can get?

No judgements, just asking.

J

Kamui will say research. It is total bs. Pricepoint is very important; I believe Kamui is very machiavellian. They could charge say 5 or 10 dollars or even less. They know they have a good product (good for them), and they know the $25 dollar price point will get people talking, and meanwhile put a LOT of dollars in their pockets (shame on them). Perhaps the pricepoint is even a key part of their marketing strategy. The only real defense we have is to stop buying the stuff (then watch the price decrease), but people like it, so what can you do?

I personally hope if this product takes off, the chinese knock this stuff off and charge a fraction of the price for it. That's the "solution."

 

[gunzby]

Kamui will say research. It is total bs. Pricepoint is very important; I believe Kamui is very machiavellian. They could charge say 5 or 10 dollars or even less. They know they have a good product (good for them), and they know the $25 dollar price point will get people talking, and meanwhile put a LOT of dollars in their pockets (shame on them). Perhaps the pricepoint is even a key part of their marketing strategy. The only real defense we have is to stop buying the stuff (then watch the price decrease), but people like it, so what can you do?

I personally hope if this product takes off, the chinese knock this stuff off and charge a fraction of the price for it. That's the "solution."

Good point. I used to work for a marina here on my days off installing boat lifts around the lakes. At the start the price was much lower and they just couldn't sell many of them. They heard it was people believing the phrase "you get what you pay for".

After that they jacked up the price higher than the competition, doubled profit and doubled sales.

 

[Roadie]

The fact is that no one knows whether Kamui is justified in their price as based on cost or if the price is simply to test the boundaries of what the market will bear. So speculation designed to incite hate is counterproductive. At this price it invites intense scrutiny and if found to be lacking then the product will be short lived. So far it seems to holding up. Well, except for the pieces that have crumbled.

Being more expensive than a precious metal is suspect though. I question the materials reason that was given for the price but do not totally discount it as I know from my job that sometimes small operations are forced to pay absurd prices for small quantities of premium materials.

 

[Masayoshi]

The price in this situation has nothing to do with how much it costs to produce the chalk. Its due to high demand. There is nothing wrong with manufacturers charging the price people will pay for a non-essential item.

You guys who ask what is Kamui's justification for its high price can all go take a pay-cut, because you can physically work for less than you are working for now.

I personally hope if this product takes off, the chinese knock this stuff off and charge a fraction of the price for it. That's the "solution."

Just don't be surprised if the Chinese knockoff is found to contain asbestos or rat poison.

 

[The Chinchilla]

Can somebody clear something up. I saw one guy posted he was selling it for 25 bucks in his shop, yet not making any profit. I assume that means he is buying it for 25 bucks a pop too? So, should this chalk really be retailing for a price over $25?

 

[Roadie]

The price in this situation has nothing to do with how much it costs to produce the chalk. Its due to high demand. There is nothing wrong with manufacturers charging the price people will pay for a non-essential item.

You guys who ask what is Kamui's justification for its high price can all go take a pay-cut, because you can physically work for less than you are working for now.



Just don't be surprised if the Chinese knockoff is found to contain asbestos or rat poison.

How do you know that either of those two items are not currently in the product? Many products contain poison because they are not meant to be ingested.

It is just as likely that the competitive version would be the same or better.

Stereotyping is in poor taste.

 

[Roadie]

Can somebody clear something up. I saw one guy posted he was selling it for 25 bucks in his shop, yet not making any profit. I assume that means he is buying it for 25 bucks a pop too? So, should this chalk really be retailing for a price over $25?

If someone is selling this product for the suggested retail and they are not making a profit then they should not be in business. Retailers should not be in business to altruistically promote brands.

 

[tattoo]

its good but....

i have been using it for about a month.....i am mixed about it.....i really like the way it holds to tip....dont see any problems with it getting on my hands like the preflag masters that i normally use....i did miscue after about an hour of playing after only chalking a couple of times.....but that was my own fault for not chalking it sooner.....i use a pressed milkdud elkmaster from pooldawg so i am assuming maybe a softer tip might of held alittle longer but damn an hour that is really good.....know what bothers me about it is that i am use to chalking ever other shot so i have to make a mental note not to use is so often which could be kinda of a distraction but o well it is only 25 bucks and even if i chalked after ever shot i am sure the chalk would last a year being that i only play 2 times a week for about 4 hours at a time....i am have made a custom chalk holder for it...lol totally rigged a electrical 2 to 3 prong extension for the chalk cube to fit in so that it would break anymore....to my next point the chalk is very brital seems to almost break off if you put to much pressure on the outside of chalk....not that i am manhandling it just seems alittle brittle....also could they use a cheaper wraper for outside cube of chalk....what garbage that is....seems to just fall apart.....not wraped very thight around the cube....i will use it tell it is gone or till someone wants it more than i do or i lose it...lol....but for me preflag masters is good enough for me....but for some i am sure they will stand by it as being the greatest thing since the sardo tight rack....o wait.....

 

[mristea]

my Kamui chalk review

I promised to revert with a review after trying this chalk.
I received it yesterday and went on to try it immediately.
First thing I wanted to try was to hit the real extremities of the cue ball with it. I mean I tried to really hit the edges of the cue ball - places where I knew for certain that with my previous chalk (blue diamond) I would mostly miscue.
Guess what - I did not miscue hitting these edges with the Kamui chalk! It really offers you a larger sweet spot on the cue ball so that you can generate more spin. I don't say you need to use such extreme spin - but it was good for me to know...
Then I played over 20 shots without chalking again - and for every shot I tried to use a lot of english / follow / draw. Never miscued, everything went smooth.
Then I watched the cue tip and it seemed as though it has no chalk left on it. I still continued to shoot without chalking - another 5+ extreme spin shots until I finally managed to miscue...It was unbelievable, I was really trying to miscue, applying extreme spin and so on...
I really like this chalk despite its high price. Compared to other players, I did not include chalking before every shot in my routine. Actually stopping and chalking before using a powerful draw or something was disturbing my concentration in the past. So I think using this chalk will be an advantage to me. I intend to chalk with kamui before every rack or so, it should be enough...
Every person is different and I understand those who are against paying 25$ for a piece of chalk. But I advise them to try it from friends or others and decide afterwards if it gives them an advantage or not.

 

[Masayoshi]

How do you know that either of those two items are not currently in the product? Many products contain poison because they are not meant to be ingested.

It is just as likely that the competitive version would be the same or better.

Stereotyping is in poor taste.

There's nothing wrong with stereotyping if it has nothing to do with race, gender, or whatever else people these days get butt hurt over. Its the same thing as warning people who buy cars from yugoslavia.

Fact of the matter is, Chinese products are often found contain harmful chemicals and are generally unregulated and its usually found out when somebody gets sick or dies of it.

Japan on the other hand has product regulation on a similar or higher level than the US.

 

[The Chinchilla]

If someone is selling this product for the suggested retail and they are not making a profit then they should not be in business. Retailers should not be in business to altruistically promote brands.

I just wanted to know if pool supply shops are buying this for $25 a pop, or pool players, or both. Ie, it may potentiall retail for 30 or even upwards a pop. Who knows.

All I know is, if I ever invent a product, i'm going to call kamui to promote it, I think these guys are geniuses at pulling the wool over. Not in the sense that they sell bad products, but in the sense that they seem to have the ability and track record to get people to pay 20 times the price for say 5% increase in performance.

 

[Roadie]

I just wanted to know if pool supply shops are buying this for $25 a pop, or pool players, or both. Ie, it may potentiall retail for 30 or even upwards a pop. Who knows.

All I know is, if I ever invent a product, i'm going to call kamui to promote it, I think these guys are geniuses at pulling the wool over. Not in the sense that they sell bad products, but in the sense that they seem to have the ability and track record to get people to pay 20 times the price for say 5% increase in performance.

No. Retailers are not paying 25 per cube. Cubes have been retailing for more than that though as things tend to in low supply high demand situation.

I find it funny that people continually toss out numbers without attempting to understand the significance of them. What does a 5% reduction in miscues mean to a professional players's income? What does a 5% reduction in miscues mean to an amateur player's enjoyment?

Probably more than the cost of the chalk. What if the performance increase is 10% reduction in miscues? What if the increased friction results in more accurate hits? There are a lot of areas where improvement could be present. Not the least of which is psychological if using this product boosts confidence. Someone else mentioned that it helps them with rhythm if they don't have to chalk before every shot. I can relate to that because I prefer to play quickly and decisively.

When you are on the outside looking in you can only speculate. And speculating without facts is the internet population's number one pastime.

By all accounts the performance of this product has so far lived up to the hype. Fairly unusual in today's world.

 

[conetip]

With the falling US dollar, I wounder what it will be in August when it is finally released.
$25 maybe a bargain price.

 

[SeanC]

I am afraid the example mit have been a little under explained. To clarify the assumption is that the chalk works as advertised and thus having suffered no miscues the player then wins the event. It is a hypothetical example but one that no less a player as John Schmidt has used where he said clearly that if the chalk eliminated just four miscues per event then it would be worth it.

One has to assume that Mr. Schmidt is proficient in the use of all standard non-Kamui brands of chalk and thus has the experience to back up his analysis of the relative value as relates to improved performance.

Mr. Schmidt then fits into the second category in my classification, no offense to him. No tournament winning player should, in my opinion, should reduce their success on a piece of their equipment. They are, or should be, better than that.

 

[The Chinchilla]

No. Retailers are not paying 25 per cube. Cubes have been retailing for more than that though as things tend to in low supply high demand situation.

I find it funny that people continually toss out numbers without attempting to understand the significance of them. What does a 5% reduction in miscues mean to a professional players's income? What does a 5% reduction in miscues mean to an amateur player's enjoyment?

Probably more than the cost of the chalk. What if the performance increase is 10% reduction in miscues? What if the increased friction results in more accurate hits? There are a lot of areas where improvement could be present. Not the least of which is psychological if using this product boosts confidence. Someone else mentioned that it helps them with rhythm if they don't have to chalk before every shot. I can relate to that because I prefer to play quickly and decisively.

When you are on the outside looking in you can only speculate. And speculating without facts is the internet population's number one pastime.

By all accounts the performance of this product has so far lived up to the hype. Fairly unusual in today's world.

Yeah, those numbers were thrown out, the real price on that to a pro would be way less that 5%. I'd bet on that one. Anyway, that was just an example to show what they are doing. But you are right. I mean if a drag racer can get to go 1% faster with certain tires, what is that worth to him... well, he just won the race because of it, it's worth a lot. Let's say the tires cost 50 times more than the next best ones, yeah he should probably buy them. But people driving around on the street (ie a B player) can't justify that expense.

I love this chalk, it proves a lot to me. Keep buying it, I think it's great everybody's game is improving. Maybe now you can give that guy you have been playing even for 10 years a game going to 11.

Anyway, the way I really feel about this is buy it if you like it, that's the truth. The only thing i'm really saying is people can say all they want, I don't think this chalk prevents miscues. If it does, I stand corrected and kamui has probably hit a gold mine if they don't ban the stuff. I mean i'm sure if you look closely in the rules of pool there is definitely some kind of limitation as to substances/chemicals you can apply to your tip.

 

[Itsnotme]

No. Retailers are not paying 25 per cube. Cubes have been retailing for more than that though as things tend to in low supply high demand situation.

I find it funny that people continually toss out numbers without attempting to understand the significance of them. What does a 5% reduction in miscues mean to a professional players's income? What does a 5% reduction in miscues mean to an amateur player's enjoyment?

Probably more than the cost of the chalk. What if the performance increase is 10% reduction in miscues? What if the increased friction results in more accurate hits? There are a lot of areas where improvement could be present. Not the least of which is psychological if using this product boosts confidence. Someone else mentioned that it helps them with rhythm if they don't have to chalk before every shot. I can relate to that because I prefer to play quickly and decisively.

When you are on the outside looking in you can only speculate. And speculating without facts is the internet population's number one pastime.

By all accounts the performance of this product has so far lived up to the hype. Fairly unusual in today's world.

You speak the truth and I agree with you. But before kamui chalk and tips came out there was still people winning world championships, large gambling matches, executing wild trick shots and people making balls fluently. I think if you have a flawed stroke and forget to chalk your cue, then this product is for you. If your stroke is straight, consistent and you remember to chalk your cue in-between shots then you should not have a need for this product. I'm my eyes this is a beginners product. I'll stick with my moori tips and masters chalk--they have never let men down and don't drain my wallet.

 

[LC3]

I too said I'd never spend that much on chalk. It's not an unreasonable reaction to going from $1 to $25 for "chalk." But I do like the idea of it being cleaner than regular chalk. Eliminating chalking from the prestroke routine simplifies things. I'll eventually try it.

 

[jimmyg]

I'm glad you ask. Someone mentioning that by weight, it is more expensive than silver, got me thinking. So I sent an email off to Kamui.

Quote:
I was wondering why Kamui chalk is so expensive? It's currently more expensive than even silver.

The reply:

Quote:
Thank you for the email. The chalk is made up of a total different compound than what we know as chalk. Kamui chalk is that much different. When you experience it, you will understand. The elements that make up the chalk is expensive in their own right. If we could make it cheaper we would because it would open up the market to more buyers. Quote]


The part about it being "total different compound than what we know as chalk" makes me wonder if it really is some sort of makeup being processed and repackaged as "chalk"?

Thanks for your reply. Although I have no facts to substantiate it, my gut feeling is the same as you and The Chinchilla suggests below. J

[Quote: The Chinchilla] Kamui will say research. It is total bs. Pricepoint is very important; I believe Kamui is very machiavellian. They could charge say 5 or 10 dollars or even less. They know they have a good product (good for them), and they know the $25 dollar price point will get people talking, and meanwhile put a LOT of dollars in their pockets (shame on them). Perhaps the pricepoint is even a key part of their marketing strategy. The only real defense we have is to stop buying the stuff (then watch the price decrease), but people like it, so what can you do?

I personally hope if this product takes off, the chinese knock this stuff off and charge a fraction of the price for it. That's the "solution."

 

[Roadie]

Yeah, those numbers were thrown out, the real price on that to a pro would be way less that 5%. I'd bet on that one. Anyway, that was just an example to show what they are doing. But you are right. I mean if a drag racer can get to go 1% faster with certain tires, what is that worth to him... well, he just won the race because of it, it's worth a lot. Let's say the tires cost 50 times more than the next best ones, yeah he should probably buy them. But people driving around on the street (ie a B player) can't justify that expense.

I love this chalk, it proves a lot to me. Keep buying it, I think it's great everybody's game is improving. Maybe now you can give that guy you have been playing even for 10 years a game going to 11.

Anyway, the way I really feel about this is buy it if you like it, that's the truth. The only thing i'm really saying is people can say all they want, I don't think this chalk prevents miscues. If it does, I stand corrected and kamui has probably hit a gold mine if they don't ban the stuff. I mean i'm sure if you look closely in the rules of pool there is definitely some kind of limitation as to substances/chemicals you can apply to your tip.

It prevents miscues. In fact all chalk prevents miscues to varying degrees. Kamui would be very very stupid to put out a product such as this for such an enormous increase in price over the leading brand if it could not be objectively tested independently of the company's claims.

At some point someone will decide to devise a sort of test that can show whether or not Kamui chalk performs so much better or not. They will put this test on video and the results will be there as hard evidence.

Wouldn't you think that Kamui, being in Japan with a lot of great pool players and carom players at their disposal would have already tested this chalk against every major brand extensively before releasing it to the market? Especially at this price point?

Tires are an excellent comparison. Where are tires developed and tested? On the race track for racers. Then they make it to the man on the street.

Remember the old ad with the baby in the car which had the tagline, "there is a lot riding on your tires."? When a tire company puts out an ad they emphasize the performance benefits such as tires that cut through water, tires that grip the road better, tires that are puncture proof. These tires are not cheap, they are expensive. Are they worth it? Well if you have a blowout going 75 miles an hour on the highway with two precious children in the car because you wouldn't spring for better tires then maybe the reason to spend more money on the only thing between you and the pavement will be clear.

Maybe the chalk is worth a game against the guy I have been playing $100 sets with every week for ten years. If the majority of our sets are decided by a few game's difference in score then even a 10% improvement on my side will get me far more money than I spent getting that improvement. You can run the numbers on that if you like and you will see that I am right.

If you're right then it's no harm no foul. People are buying $25 chalk and getting no extra benefit and so they have no advantage. If you're wrong then they have a slight advantage which pays out over the long run. I have tried the chalk. It works. However I did only get to try it for a short time and when I receive my piece I will test it out thoroughly. I am not a complete sucker for hype alone in that I have in fact tried it and waited until many others had bought and paid for it and used it before I decided to purchase.

I personally believe that this product is a game changer. It's like moving from ivory balls to phenolic, from straw rails to rubber, from thick carpet style cloth to worsted wool etc... At this price it will not penetrate much into the market but as with all such innovations the initial price is high and over time the price comes down dramatically as more competition enters the space. Hopefully Tweeten is reverse engineering it as we speak.

 

[bboxgrinder]

Roadie your doing ok, not getting beat up too bad. Are you sure you don't need a job in the marketing feild. You may have some sales skills lol.