Joe, you seem to be saying that lower deflection is equivalent to "better." I'd call this a personal preference you hold rather than a fact applicable universally. Some players, for legitimate reasons, prefer a shaft with higher deflection than your Z2. To them, lower deflection would not be better.
Low deflection shafts and higher end custom cues
- Thread starter No Limit
- Start date
Joe, you seem to be saying that lower deflection is equivalent to "better." I'd call this a personal preference you hold rather than a fact applicable universally. Some players, for legitimate reasons, prefer a shaft with higher deflection than your Z2. To them, lower deflection would not be better.
Yes... It is a great shaft. Type the string below into Google search. It will return all the posts containing "OB classic". The AZ search wont work on "OB" because it is too short.
ob classic site:forums.azbilliards.com
Use what works...
When I had my $5,500.00 Ambassador built I had Dan build it with 2 30" Predator 314-2 shafts (60" Cue). I just play well with them and see no reason not to use them. He had no problem not using his shafts.
When I had my $5,500.00 Ambassador built I had Dan build it with 2 30" Predator 314-2 shafts (60" Cue). I just play well with them and see no reason not to use them. He had no problem not using his shafts.
In my opinion...
You can have any shaft you want in any butt you have...but neglecting the most important balance weight of the whole cue together...
In mass production cues....eg when they found a cue that is lighter in weight, all they do is slam a weight screw in the back of the butt, if the weight is still light, they will change the previous screw and put a much longer weight screw in the butt. That way is much easier for them to make a 19.5oz cues.
The question is...what is the specific weight for the forearm, the handle, and the shaft?
Back to the topic...
so you have to be lucky enough to have a balanced cue by mixing this butt with that shaft...
IMO
You can have any shaft you want in any butt you have...but neglecting the most important balance weight of the whole cue together...
In mass production cues....eg when they found a cue that is lighter in weight, all they do is slam a weight screw in the back of the butt, if the weight is still light, they will change the previous screw and put a much longer weight screw in the butt. That way is much easier for them to make a 19.5oz cues.
The question is...what is the specific weight for the forearm, the handle, and the shaft?
Back to the topic...
so you have to be lucky enough to have a balanced cue by mixing this butt with that shaft...
IMO
TheThaiger
Banned
Let’s say you have a car that tends to pull left or right as you accelerate into a turn. The more you accelerate the more it pulls. On soft turns it can get goofy as it doesn’t always grab like it should.
If you grew up with that car you would be used to it and might even prefer it over a car with power assisted steering. I guess that could be considered a preference.
However, when engineers find that several of their cars are acting in this hard to steer way they re-engineer the car so it responds better at slow and at faster speeds. The “new” engineering is a “better” driving system. None-the-less many people grew up with the old difficult to steer cars and still prefer them to the newer equipment. For the older people it seems the old way is better and they have to re-learn to steer a car that doesn’t pull.
So in a sense you are right, it is a preference. However, it has been unequivocally demonstrated that cue sticks made with lighter “front ends” have better playing characteristics. That is not opinion. That is fact. So the preference is for a type of stick that really doesn’t work as well. It is something like going from driving a tractor to a car with power steering. The new car requires a much lighter touch and this has to be learned.
The analogy between cars and cue sticks breaks down when it comes to the subtle differences in cue sticks. The cue stick improvement is not immediately apparent to the newer player who has to test the differences between sticks. Heck some people are not even aware of what happens during deflection. With the newer sticks one does quickly learn that it is possible (and easier) to stay closer to center ball for the same effect.
Older (especially good) players have learned that deflection is part of their game and have mastered its effects so they don’t “need” the new fangled equipment.
For me it simply makes sense to reduce (not eliminate) whatever error inducing effects I can remove. I guess this could be considered a preference. The older player tells me to learn to deal with it like he did.
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By older player I mean older in experience not older in years.
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I've read many stories about how many of the older greats started playing on tables made of plywood, balls made of mud, and their grandfather's wooden leg for a cue.
Perhaps the need to compensate for every roll in the table, crack in a ball, bad rails and cue deflection nurtured a greater perspective for all the subtleties on a modern table.
Do whatever makes you a better shot. Whatever you choose, stick with it. I have had several OB's matched up to several different custom's that I own. I'm currently playing with a Lambros Ultra shaft and no adjustment was ever needing from day one. They just play great.
We got a guy in our BCA leauge that has worn the finish off the butt section of his Scruggs SP. When the butt of your cue is staining blue from chalk, you better believe that cue has seen a lot of table time. That guy is also one of the best players I have ever personally met. Does the equipment make the shooter or does the shooter's experience/skill adjust to the equipment's playability?
That's what it boils down to. Quality table time makes the player, period. I don't want or need a $50 tip to improve my game. I like my Triangle tips just fine...
We got a guy in our BCA leauge that has worn the finish off the butt section of his Scruggs SP. When the butt of your cue is staining blue from chalk, you better believe that cue has seen a lot of table time. That guy is also one of the best players I have ever personally met. Does the equipment make the shooter or does the shooter's experience/skill adjust to the equipment's playability?
That's what it boils down to. Quality table time makes the player, period. I don't want or need a $50 tip to improve my game. I like my Triangle tips just fine...
Made in the USA
I have a higher end custom cue and have played with OB Shafts for that cue since day one.
Ob shafts for me are just the way to go. They are highly consistent and incredibly reliable. They are made here in the USA and for me are the best on the market in LD technology.
The question you have to ask yourself is this. Do I want to rely on one cue and one set of shafts to achieve the highest level of consistency? If so then stick with your cue maker's shafts.
If you want the dependability of being able to switch cues at will and still be able to play with shafts regardless of any kind of damage or mishap, then play LD. Low deflection gives you that luxury of consistency through the life of your playing career. Higher levels of consistency = higher performance levels. Of course there are those who just dial in their cues and play with them for a long time. However if they switch shafts, even amongst the same cue maker, there is a larger learning curve according to that shaft particular nuances.
Predator isn't the only option in low-deflection so shop around and test what feels good to you. If you haven't played with low-deflection before then you will go through a learning curve to your shaft of choice.
Best of luck in your path to success.
Sincerely,
Raymond Linares
I have a higher end custom cue and have played with OB Shafts for that cue since day one.
Ob shafts for me are just the way to go. They are highly consistent and incredibly reliable. They are made here in the USA and for me are the best on the market in LD technology.
The question you have to ask yourself is this. Do I want to rely on one cue and one set of shafts to achieve the highest level of consistency? If so then stick with your cue maker's shafts.
If you want the dependability of being able to switch cues at will and still be able to play with shafts regardless of any kind of damage or mishap, then play LD. Low deflection gives you that luxury of consistency through the life of your playing career. Higher levels of consistency = higher performance levels. Of course there are those who just dial in their cues and play with them for a long time. However if they switch shafts, even amongst the same cue maker, there is a larger learning curve according to that shaft particular nuances.
Predator isn't the only option in low-deflection so shop around and test what feels good to you. If you haven't played with low-deflection before then you will go through a learning curve to your shaft of choice.
Best of luck in your path to success.
Sincerely,
Raymond Linares
what are the reason you buy a Hercek? you need to answer this question first....for a collection...for an invesment ...you buy Hercek for the playability or else...once you answer this question you will know why you need the LD shafts for...
If you buy it because you want to sell it later with a profit...then...don't play it....put it in a nice cue case then post it later in this site ....you can sell it as a brand new Hercek....i believe market will appraise your cue higher than a mint condition hercek or a used one....So..my suggestion is ...buy a cheap Predator a 400-500$ Predator and play with it....
I will give you the same suggestion..if you are a collector of a high end cue...put your Hercek on a box of glasses..and admire the cue every time you enter your room...don't ever play with it...20 or 30 years later...sell it with a high profit....
If you buy the cue because it's playability...then..bring it to the pool room...play with it until this cue blueing with chalk...maybe there some nick or scar and else....every 2-3 years...repair it to the cuemaker and keep playing until you master it.....JOEL HERCEK's known for a Master cuemaker and his cue Known very well because it's playability.....
i'm not saying that you are not respect the cuemaker if you put a LD shaft to Hercek butt....but...it's really not a logical sense to put a LD shafts to custom cues butt....it will play like a predator 314 2 or it will play like a mezz if you put wd700 on it...why the hell you want to do it and risk your hercek butt get the scar or nick..if you know what i mean.
If you buy it because you want to sell it later with a profit...then...don't play it....put it in a nice cue case then post it later in this site ....you can sell it as a brand new Hercek....i believe market will appraise your cue higher than a mint condition hercek or a used one....So..my suggestion is ...buy a cheap Predator a 400-500$ Predator and play with it....
I will give you the same suggestion..if you are a collector of a high end cue...put your Hercek on a box of glasses..and admire the cue every time you enter your room...don't ever play with it...20 or 30 years later...sell it with a high profit....
If you buy the cue because it's playability...then..bring it to the pool room...play with it until this cue blueing with chalk...maybe there some nick or scar and else....every 2-3 years...repair it to the cuemaker and keep playing until you master it.....JOEL HERCEK's known for a Master cuemaker and his cue Known very well because it's playability.....
i'm not saying that you are not respect the cuemaker if you put a LD shaft to Hercek butt....but...it's really not a logical sense to put a LD shafts to custom cues butt....it will play like a predator 314 2 or it will play like a mezz if you put wd700 on it...why the hell you want to do it and risk your hercek butt get the scar or nick..if you know what i mean.
Raymond
Another good point, you can always take your shaft with you.
Thanks
Kevin
Ever since I got my Keith Josey I can't play with my predator anymore, it feels like a cheap piece of crap with no feedback. I can still play with my Bob Frey, it's solid, firm hit (like the Josey) provides the feel I need to play now. In the past I loved the predator, but not any more.
I like and agree with all of your post except this. You can't get the same effect (amount of spin) hitting closer to centerball with a low-squirt shaft.
pj
chgo
Very nicely put:thumbup:
Your car analogy doesn't really address what was behind my earlier post.
A "low-deflection" shaft is not a "no-deflection" shaft. The cue ball still deflects, or squirts, when it is hit with side spin with a low deflection shaft. It just squirts less than it would with a regular-deflection shaft.
So squirt compensation is still needed with low-deflection shafts. There are several techniques to compensate. If one prefers to compensate for squirt by using back-hand english (rather than parallel english, front-hand english, or some combination of techniques), then he is best served by using a shaft with a pivot point approximately at the bridging point. With a low-deflection shaft, the pivot point is generally farther from the tip of the cue than one would normally like to use for a bridging point.
So, for players who compensate for squirt by using BHE, a regular-deflection shaft is a higher performance shaft, i.e., a "better" shaft.
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Well that all depends on if your cue maker knows the exact weight and joint diameter of your low d shaft. Some of us buy a custom for specific reasons such as getting the exact weight and balance point and joint we want as well as a few other options we want that are not available in off the wall cues but still choose to play with a particular shaft that has certain properties we also like at least that is true in my case.
I am not sure about that PJ. A few tests here wold be useful. Hyothesis: An LD shaft can produce more spin than a regular shaft when the CB is hit 1/4" off center on the horizontal axis.
Seems to me it does but I have no way to tell. Now I know you are going to get into the physics and that is OK with me. Perhaps the speed of the shaft increases with an LD shaft for the same amount of power?
OB Classics LD properties are worse than Predator 314^2.
OB-1 LD properties are the same as 314^2.
The lowest deflection shaft I have seen is on my old Stout cue I won in a raffle.
For example, you can apply tone of left spin and the ball goes perfectly straight. It is weird to see the CB go 100% straight and then jump left like that.
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