Low deflection shafts and higher end custom cues

[Fatboy]

.Personally I've always loved Predator due to inside english is just so much easier but there are maple shafts out there that play outstanding,equal or even better than a Predator but alot harder to find where Predator is alot easier to acquire.:smile:

I agree, I like the Predator shaft for inside english, thats why I use one for breaking 1P on wet tables. As for playing I play better with a regular shaft because thats what I used for so many years, I think If I started playing with LD from day 1, I would be a better player today than I am. But that stuff didnt exist back then.

 

[Fatboy]

well I was a bit harsh..

but the fact remains if you want a predator buy one for $200. and use the other $1800 for something else.

To toss away world class maple in favor of scraps and glue is an insult to the art of cue making.

now if you will excuse me I have to go pull the engine out of a Toyota Camry.. and put it in my Bentley.. because the guy at the stoplight says Camry engines are better..and the commercials say they are the best engines in existence

Thats not a bad idea, you seen how much it costs to have your Bentley serviced nowadays??? I'm going to drop Toyota crate motors in all my cars, actually thats whats in the Lotus Elise.


now back to pool....

 

[kvinbrwr]

I have had 5 Custom cues made in the past 3 years and I order them without shafts. I talk with the cue maker and tell him that I will send him 2 Predator 314/2's and ask him to change out the joint collars to match the new cue. They all are willing to do it for a nominal price. LIke $25 per shaft. You get a low deflection shaft(s) that you are used to using and don't have a lot of traditional shafts lying around gathering dust.

Wedge

Wedge

Just don't ask Barry to do that for you.

Kevin

 

[kvinbrwr]

well I was a bit harsh..

but the fact remains if you want a predator buy one for $200. and use the other $1800 for something else.

To toss away world class maple in favor of scraps and glue is an insult to the art of cue making.

now if you will excuse me I have to go pull the engine out of a Toyota Camry.. and put it in my Bentley.. because the guy at the stoplight says Camry engines are better..and the commercials say they are the best engines in existence

The problem with your "solution" is that many folks that spend 2K and upward on a cue are buying something other than only playability. A 10K Gina, for example, is exactly the same playing cue as a 2K Gina, the other 8K is adornment and collectibility. Save the maker's shafts, play with a Predator, get the ooohs and ahhs and pride of ownership from the butt flash, and when its time to sell, if you have chosen the right maker, you will at least get your money back if not do better, and you will have unplayed original shafts to offer with it.

Thanks again

Kevin

 

[JoeW]

I've used a Predator shaft on my Mottey ever since I got it and love it.

So do I and I have a good reason for doing this.

To me it is not a matter of opinion. The shafts can be tested to determine which one yields the least deflection. After reading all the hype I thought I should at least try the Z2 with my small hands and preferred reduced diameter tip. I really wanted the Mottey shafts to prove to be the better shafts for all the obvious reasons. Turns out not to be true. The Predator is simply a better shaft regardless of the cost and workmanship.

Later someone pointed out to me that it really is a "no brainer." There simply is no comparison betweeen a Predator Z and a shaft with an Ivory ferrule. The weight difference makes for an unfair comparison.

So I have stored both of the original ivory ferrule shafts for my grandchildren. Perhaps they can make a buck when they inherit the stick. I have the best of both worlds, a beautiful 1987 Paul Mottey that plays extremely well.

 

[joelpope]

well I was a bit harsh..

but the fact remains if you want a predator buy one for $200. and use the other $1800 for something else.

To toss away world class maple in favor of scraps and glue is an insult to the art of cue making.

now if you will excuse me I have to go pull the engine out of a Toyota Camry.. and put it in my Bentley.. because the guy at the stoplight says Camry engines are better..and the commercials say they are the best engines in existence

classic ending point.... funny!

 

[jlrowe]

If i didnt like the taper, diameter or hit of the hercek i would use a shaft that i was comfortable using. To me it is not about deflection, because you learn to compensate. The best advice is stick with what you started using when you first started learning to play. It will cut off the time you will have to get used to low deflection or vise versa. To me taper and diameter is my main concerns.

 

[kvinbrwr]

If i didnt like the taper, diameter or hit of the hercek i would use a shaft that i was comfortable using. To me it is not about deflection, because you learn to compensate. The best advice is stick with what you started using when you first started learning to play. It will cut off the time you will have to get used to low deflection or vise versa. To me taper and diameter is my main concerns.

I don't currently use a LD shaft, but I'm leaning closer and closer to making the switch.

Sure you can adjust, and much of the adjustment is ingrained and subconscious and just becomes automatic. However, my current thinking is that if there was a more accurate method and I had to adjust less, when I got used to the new smaller delta of adjustment, wouldn't I then be more accurate in general?

Anyway, the intent of the thread wasn't a discussion of the merits of a LD shaft so I'll stop. Besides FatBoy2 called and I'm going to help him swap motors out for his POS Bentleys (and hopefully the electronics while we are at it).

Thanks

Kevin

 

[PoolBum]

The best advice is stick with what you started using when you first started learning to play. It will cut off the time you will have to get used to low deflection or vise versa.

Not for me. I shot straight with a LD shaft immediately.

 

[TheThaiger]

Can someone explain why you have to "learn" to play with a LD shaft? Surely you just aim as if you're not applying English, but then apply English?

I have very little experience of playing with a custom, but the little I have has persuaded me they are utterly pointless. Why on earth make a difficult game even more difficult. High deflection shafts are just pointless, especially when you're dropping a load of money on a new cue.

 

[kvinbrwr]

Not for me. I shot straight with a LD shaft immediately.

You know, I think I agree with you.

Kevin

 

[jlrowe]

Not for me. I shot straight with a LD shaft immediately.

I sort of agree. I can hit my long straight in shots just as well if not even better some days with a ld shaft because if im a hair off center of my cue ball it doesnt affect it as much. But i have trouble compensating when there is english involved. Especially if say im at a 30 degree angle and running the object ball the length of the table and need to use left or right to get position. Its a different ball game in what my mind projects. But then again it could be my mind. oh no, my mind is refusing to adapt to change. Maybe ive never been able to shoot straight. :scratchhead: :shrug:

 

[quadrary]

Can someone explain why you have to "learn" to play with a LD shaft? Surely you just aim as if you're not applying English, but then apply English?

I have very little experience of playing with a custom, but the little I have has persuaded me they are utterly pointless. Why on earth make a difficult game even more difficult. High deflection shafts are just pointless, especially when you're dropping a load of money on a new cue.

As far as the explanation goes your brain adjusts to the deflection you get when using english over time and pdactice to the point where you dont even realize you are making the adjustment then when it isnt there you tend to hit spin shots to full till you get adjusted back the other way. And as far as wood chips and glue you must be using different low d shafts then i have ever seen as they are wedges of straight cut maple with a consistent grain orientation and that isnt for deflection reduction but radial consistency so keep using that 1 piece pine and paint a dot on it so you always have it turned the same direction when you shoot.

 

[joelpope]

I like the earlier quotes....

Play with what you like, are comfortable with and have confidence in

I have a buddy that has won state & finishes in the top 20 in Vegas pretty much every year in both 9 & 8 that has a Searing on order, carries a Southwest with Searing re-tapered shafts in his case and shoots with a $90 piece of crap he won in a break contest... ask him why. He "likes the feel and hit" and it just doesn't get any more subjective than that

 

[jlrowe]

And as far as wood chips and glue you must be using different low d shafts then i have ever seen as they are wedges of straight cut pine with a consistent grain orientation and that isnt for deflection reduction but radial consistency so keep using that 1 piece pine and paint a dot on it so you always have it turned the same direction when you shoot.

You are right that its not the radial construction that reduces the deflection. But It is the hollowed out end of the shaft with a carbon or foam core and special light weight ferrule that reduces the deflection. Reduced end mass.

 

[quadrary]

You are right that its not the radial construction that reduces the deflection. But It is the hollowed out end of the shaft with a carbon or foam core and special light weight ferrule that reduces the deflection. Reduced end mass.

Agreed and i knew that i was just pointing out the very real reason for the lamination of the shafts which is why meucci puts a dot on their non lam shaft to keep it turned the same direction each time you shoot for the greatest consistency although i am not a meucci fan just saying.

 

[Rod]

Can someone explain why you have to "learn" to play with a LD shaft?

Because all of your play has been with Std higher deflection shafts (high squirt). You get use to adjusting for deflection. Then when you play with LD shafts you have to adjust for lack of deflection (low squirt)

Since they have less squirt the C/B swerves more than anticipated. Actually it does not swerve more, it just appears that way. That is because LD shafts starts the C/B in a straighter line than high squirt shafts. So depending on stroke speed and the amount of side with top or low it will over correct.

An example would be using low left over a distance at med stroke speed. Using a high squirt shaft you may be right on target or maybe hit it a little full. Using an LD shaft, with the same aim point you will over cut the ball. That is just one example but you have to adjust or compensate for lack of deflection.

No matter what shaft you use adjustments are necessary. Some prefer HD shafts because its difficult to adjust to low squirt shafts. Of course some prefer LD as well. I think new players adjust to LD easier because they really don't notice a big difference. That is because their stroke is not good enough to hit the C/B with accuracy. I think they both have advantages so pick your poison.

Rod

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I've been using a 314 1st gen and a Z on a Schon for some time and I love the combination. I also have a few other decent players and got good quality maple shafts with them.

Given the choice tho, I would take a good maple shaft over a lam any day of the week.

 

[kvinbrwr]

I've been using a 314 1st gen and a Z on a Schon for some time and I love the combination. I also have a few other decent players and got good quality maple shafts with them.

Given the choice tho, I would take a good maple shaft over a lam any day of the week.

I don't get it. Seems to me you have that choice right now on the Schon and have opted for the LD shafts?

Thanks

Kevin

 

[SirNoobs]

Anyone try the OB Classics? They say the cue is built solid rather than the known LD shaft "pie construction" and it's got LD properties slightly below Predators.

I really want to try one.