All League Players - Poll as to Money Spent on League Night ***

[JAMSGOLF]

Contact your LO and tell him to raise dues, because you need a cut. If he aint willing to, send a bill to the corperate office.

APA is Ponzi anyways....Bunch of crooks.

From your AZ name, it seems I just need you to come play here :thumbup:

I know the APA is trying to make money...don't blame them really...just hate to see (and tired of seeing) all the local money for playing pool going to a national organization with little to no money going to the local facilities that are allowing the leagues to play...essentially without a place to play, the leagues wouldn't exist...

Jason

 

[12ozCurl]

From your AZ name, it seems I just need you to come play here :thumbup:

I know the APA is trying to make money...don't blame them really...just hate to see (and tired of seeing) all the local money for playing pool going to a national organization with little to no money going to the local facilities that are allowing the leagues to play...essentially without a place to play, the leagues wouldn't exist...

Jason

Ding Ding Ding.

And I have been told (mind you I was younger at the time) that I kept a bar in business. I would drink $100 a night 5 nights a week. Man to be young again...

You are dead on right. They make money, and I dont hold them at fault for that. The thing is they shit all over the places that allow them to make the money. If the APA wanted real growth they would jack up the fees by a dollar a person. From there they would give that dollar to the bar they play at. Its not much but hell, atleast it is something.

 

[JAMSGOLF]

Jamsgolf, have you thought of dart tournaments? I assume you are using a black widow or other coin op electric board, tournaments for those can be pretty popular. And yes, they tend to be drinkers.

I just started doing bi-weekly pool tournaments on the weekends...some have been good turnouts...one flop week...

Yes, I've thought about the dart tournaments. I have 3 Coin-Op Scorpion Dart Boards. The tournaments for those will likely come with time....

I really want to get the situation with the League players straightened out...such that I don't piss them off and lose their interest in leagues in this area...on the other hand, with the league players playing right now (in this league), by losing their "business" I'd actually be making money...it costs more for me to recover the 4 tables I have than I've made from the league players over the last 3 sessions...sad but true!!!

Jason

 

[JAMSGOLF]

The thing is they shit all over the places that allow them to make the money. If the APA wanted real growth they would jack up the fees by a dollar a person. From there they would give that dollar to the bar they play at. Its not much but hell, atleast it is something.

Yeah, I was going to try and "bite my tongue" with regards to my feelings about the APA league operator for this area...

However, I know they're not ALL like that. I had posted a question with regards to putting on the tournaments and I got a call out of the blue from an APA League Operator in PA, who suggested I call my local LO for help...I informed him that would likely not be coming any time soon...he replied that he would send me any info/brackets I needed or wanted...so they're not ALL bad...however, this local guy...well, read between the lines on that one....

But I do agree that the APA (at least in this area) wants their money for the league play, but they do NOTHING for the facilities where leagues are held...they're banking on the fact that the players are taking care of the facilities...escept alot of times the players AREN'T. THOSE OF YOU WHO DO TAKE CARE OF YOUR LOCAL FACILITIES, THAT COMMENT WAS MEANT FOR THOSE WHO PLAY WITHOUT SPENDING A DIME OTHER THAN THEIR LEAGUE DUES...

Jason

 

[dr9ball]

In the Metro-DC area the last time I played APA, The house kept the APA envelopes and the Team Captain's bought the envelopes from the house for approx. $15. This way the house was making money on the league players playing there. We played on 9 foot tables but it would work equally well on a coin-op. With 8 teams you'd have $120 a night to cover your expenses.

As a business owner, you have to look out for your business. If you're losing money, remember there are other alternatives for leagues besides APA. TAP, BCAPL, VENA etc.

Good Luck.

 

[brandoncook26]

You should definitely charge a green fee or lock the tables and have people pay by the game. A $2 greens fee with 8 teams would net you $80 per league night.

No way you should be supporting the league and not getting anything out of it. You have a business and should be paid for the table time.

 

[Koop]

I like beer!

 

[lady9ball]

**The following is for a league other than APA. A large percentage of the league fees goes back to the payout fund and NONE of it goes to the sanctioning body - those dues are paid once each year. You said all league players, though, so here's our situation.**

We pay $5 each for league dues, tables are closed and avg $1 per game, 9 games per night, split between two teams. The tables are owned by the vending company and although I don't know their particular arrangement, table income split 50/50 w/ the establishment is common.

My husband usually drinks 4 or 5 beers at avg. $3 each. I drink one or two sodas, avg. $1.50 each. This is a scotch doubles league so that makes up our whole team.

Broken down:
League fees - $10
Coin for games - $4.50 ($2.25 would go to the establishment)
Avg cost for drinks - $18

So in our case, the bar/room gets about double what the league fees are.

When we owned a bar (vendor owned and maintained tables) we were always excited to sponsor teams. Crowds attract crowds, so having a room full of league players was good for bringing in and keeping other customers around. Although some teams didn't drink much, we were never sorry to have them around. And some of the other teams more than made up for them!

 

[Maniac]

Oh, I could drink me some Crown Royal on league nights, but I didn't vote because at my home bar the tables were open, but when away they were usually closed. I would say that as a whole, I almost always spent more money on league night than my weekly dues were, whether at home or away.

Maniac

 

[JAMSGOLF]

**The following is for a league other than APA. A large percentage of the league fees goes back to the payout fund and NONE of it goes to the sanctioning body - those dues are paid once each year. You said all league players, though, so here's our situation.**

We pay $5 each for league dues, tables are closed and avg $1 per game, 9 games per night, split between two teams. The tables are owned by the vending company and although I don't know their particular arrangement, table income split 50/50 w/ the establishment is common.

My husband usually drinks 4 or 5 beers at avg. $3 each. I drink one or two sodas, avg. $1.50 each. This is a scotch doubles league so that makes up our whole team.

Broken down:
League fees - $10
Coin for games - $4.50 ($2.25 would go to the establishment)
Avg cost for drinks - $18

So in our case, the bar/room gets about double what the league fees are.

When we owned a bar (vendor owned and maintained tables) we were always excited to sponsor teams. Crowds attract crowds, so having a room full of league players was good for bringing in and keeping other customers around. Although some teams didn't drink much, we were never sorry to have them around. And some of the other teams more than made up for them!

I did say "all" leagues...I try hard to catch myself when I make a "catch-all" phrase...I don't always see it in time...

I have to say when I first starting sponsoring teams to play out of my facility, I WAS excited. I understand that not every team/member drinks...nor do I expect them to. Even with one non-drinking team, there's usually one or two more "drinking" teams on the same night...HOWEVER, for whatever reason, in this league I've been referring to, I was being conservative when I stated 75% of the players don't drink...and on average are spending $2-4 dollars (that's an average for all the players...).

It seemed you were graced with clientelle who understood that pool isn't free...it has to be paid for somehow (e.g. food/drinks/etc). But since the players in the league that's here now don't seem to get that, I wanted to hear what other league players are "willing" to pay when it comes to playing on league nights...

I just want to see what's going to be the best option for BOTH the league players and my business.

p.s. I thought Scotch Doubles was a drink...it's a pool term too??? (Just kidding).

Jason

 

[daylate$short]

League Fees/Costs

I play in two different league systems. Both systems have about the same fees, and costs.

a. Bar/Sponsor pays $75 as a Sponsor Fee per League Season. Part of this goes to the National Tournament, and National Fees (for VNEA League anyway), and part goes to prize fund for State Tournament. The other league is a state organization; some of the money goes to the State Tournament.

b. Weekly League Fee: $5.00 per player; I think most of this goes to the State Tournament Prizes, and expenses? (both leagues)

c. Tables are closed; $1.00 per game in the match (8-ball we play a 16 game format; 9-ball we play a 27 game format.

I spend $15-$25 extra at the bar per league night, depending on if I have a meal, or not. I would bet the "average" extra per player would be in this range.

We are in a area which does not have any other opportunities for "structured" pool competition....no pool rooms, only bars with 1-4 bar tables. The tables are provided by vendors, who do the maintenance. Actually one of the bars does own their tables (2 Diamond Smart Tables 7 foot); that's where I play for one league. 2 vendors=2 seperate league systems=no bar supplied by one vendor, can have teams in BOTH league systems.

Charlie
Aberdeen, SD

 

[BrokeHustler]

If you serve alcohol ? get a hot chick to serve it, Serve food? Serve better food maybe raise your food prices or dink prices , think about running specials to get people to spend money but if they don't have it they still will not spend it., The idea is that the league brings people to your establishment that would not other wise be there, but if you have nothing else to offer besides pool then you are going to take a lose because of the use of your equipment and re-felting and maintenance, how much are the tables? to make a league pay for table doesn't really work in my opinion because of certain rules.

 

[JAMSGOLF]

...but if they don't have it [money] they still will not spend it

Yep, that's a problem in my eyes...they have the money to spend on the national organization that tracks their pool games, but apparently no money to pay for the pool itself (paying for drinks- yes beer/wine, other table time, arcade games, golf simulators, jukebox...anything of those other things mentioned really "pays" for their pool!!).

Jason

 

[scratchs]

Jason

If it were me,I would have the tables closed during league play.this way you have the money to recover etc..The bar I play out of recovers their tables twice a year..
The owner has open tables during the day an closes them around four..
I would not sponsor any teams.unless its one or two teams..I've played for over ten years, an never ask a place to sponser one of my teams..
I will say the place I play out of has the best food in town..that is for a bar a
n grill.I think if you pervide quality service,an good equipment to play on,you'll do okay.
Only do what you can afford.wish you the best with your business.

 

[scratchs]

Forgot the important part of your question..yes I spent more then my weekly.I usualy have breakfeast an lunch there..or lunch an dinner..just depends on how long I hang out
.sometimes I just drink soda..other times barley pop:smile
I can be cheap,but my being cheap is more then some will gamble with.
I think what I am saying is..folks just need to quit expecting others to pay for the to play..an free table time. It suckens me when I hear some say..so an so is paying all my dues,plus my table time,and is buying my drinks for the night..just because he/she is playing on their team..enough said..got off top.

 

[JAMSGOLF]

Forgot the important part of your question..yes I spent more then my weekly.I usualy have breakfeast an lunch there..or lunch an dinner..just depends on how long I hang out
.sometimes I just drink soda..other times barley pop:smile

"Barley Pop" - I haven't heard that one for awhile.

Someone brought up a valid point in a PM they sent me. The lower skilled players usually get paired up against other lower skilled players. In the APA, they may only play 2-3 games. Which is just fine. The problems (from a customer standpoint...not an owner's) is when the 6's or 7's get paired up. Then it becomes a possibility of 9 games being played.

I want to keep things fair for the players...but fair for my business as well. So I'm thinking I'm either going to close the tables or charge a flat fee to each team (greens fees) for the night...

I'm getting some great information...some I hadn't thought of...so my thanks goes out to ALL who are letting me know how they and their leagues are operating!!!

Jason

 

[scratchs]

Jason

I barrowed barley pop from my grandad..it just stuck.I'm in my fifty's.

 

[danquixote]

I do not currently play on a league, but when I did I was not influenced by open or closed tables. I like to have dinner at my pool establishment but I'm not overly fond of Pub Grub....you know....the deep fried everything or pre pattied burgers. I like a house speciality, no matter if it's BBQ, Pizza, or Gumbo.....as long as it's not a microwaved cardboard entree. Home cookin is a plus even if it's served out of a crock pot. One place here offers a $10 grilled steak nite.....ribeye and baked tater.....I'll spend money on that kind of food anyday. And nothing goes better with good food than cold beer and good service.....my $.02......Dan

 

[Brozif]

Bottom line is that as a room owner, you must protect yourself from the possibility that the league players might not spend any money. It's great that you want to support the game of pool by promoting league play in your establishment, but if they don't support you, then they will not have a place to play.

It is absurd for people to expect the room owner to survive off of table time alone. Any table cost or table time money usually goes to pay for the tables and their upkeep. The establishment itself depends and counts on making their money from alcohol and food sales.

Good luck in your decision. It is not an easy one as you cannot please everyone! However, the one you must worry about is YOU and YOUR business!

 

[nateobot]

Half of our league nights are spent on Closed tables vs Open tables. I spend roughly the same at all the establishments. I don't take into account how much I am paying for a table, five bucks or so isn't going to sway my purchasing ability.