Stiffness Of Cue by listed Cuemakers

skip said:
I have played with four different Tim Scruggs. An all the owners of the cues have played my Schon stl-9. They could not tell any difference in the hit. My 2 cents.
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Hungarian Nut said:
Example, I have this real old Schon shaft. It feels the same on my Toeboy, Schon and Joss which all have 5/16" - 14 SS piloted joints. They all feel the same with this shaft. Common denominator is the shaft first and the joint second.

Bottom line is you must play with various cues to get a feel for how they hit. And this is the fun of playing pool.
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I tend to agree with is. I watched a video some where, they had plain wrapped cues and asked players to comment about playability.

I don't want to be disrespectful but people that say they can tell the difference between full, half splice or solid forearms and wood types. I just get that questioned look in my eye and shrug my shoulders.

There maybe a reason you can't find videos of 10 cues all wrapped in brown paper "joint down" with dozens of players asked rate the hit. ;)
 
arknova said:
bump bump bump! Keep the reviews coming!
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I have a Richard Black. It's got an Ivory Joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.

I have a Paul Dayton. It's got a SS joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.

I have a Cognoscenti. It has a flat faced wood to wood joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.
 
Hungarian Nut said:
I have a Richard Black. It's got an Ivory Joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.

I have a Paul Dayton. It's got a SS joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.

I have a Cognoscenti. It has a flat faced wood to wood joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.
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That was a thread killer. I agree though, it's the tip more than the cue.
 
Some of the points Hungarian Nut made are valid,like tip density and tapers.I know people have different opinions if the joint is more than just a mere tool to locking the shaft to the butt.I believe the joint is the big part of the foundation that compliments the way the shaft feels on the hit.I've put the same shaft on a few different butts and on a couple, the shaft didn't feel right but also on a couple the shaft felt awesome which told me the joint material used with certain wood combinations helped with the harmonics and tone of the hit.Its like finding that perfect tip & ferrule combo that fits your style of play.I believe the butt and joint play a huge part in the hit of the cue.:smile:
 
Cues I've had and played with for a period of time from softest to hardest.

Meucci
Joss sneaky-production
Espiritu
Schon-90's
Scruggs
Huebler-70's
Joss West-70's
Tascarella
 
I don't seem to understand whether you guys get the thread or not. It's the comparison between the hits of cues against other cues. Not a cue against itself with a SOFT OR HARD tip.


Opinions can be differing, which gladly, some nice people actually tried their best to answer and I'm really thankful. If you can't really produce anything constructive, I suggest you keep quiet =)

Hungarian Nut said:
I have a Richard Black. It's got an Ivory Joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.

I have a Paul Dayton. It's got a SS joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.

I have a Cognoscenti. It has a flat faced wood to wood joint. Shafts are exactly the same. One has a soft tip and one has a hard tip. The shaft with the soft tip plays soft. The one with the hard tip plays hard.
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So many variables that it is almost impossible to answer. The very first thing would be to categorize a cue that had not been altered since leaving the shop. I think that the way a cue is set-up or fine tuned impacts the play a lot. There is a lot of truth in the tip hardness issue as to the stiffness of play. Joint, tapers, etc also affect play, as does the internal assembly method.

I have played with ivory jointed, ivory ferruled Scruggs cues that had a somewhat soft (yet very crisp) hit, due to the nature of ivory. Most of the Scruggs cues that I have owned were very firm players, though.

Stiffest cue I ever hit with was an early Kersenbrock...played great, and had a very musical sounding, resonant "ping" when you struck the ball. I assume that nothing had been changed in the shaft, but I don't know that for certain.

Most cuemakers who use a parabolic taper build cues that have firmer play...SW, Kers, Harris, Carmelli, Barnhart...but to varying degrees.

There are just too many variables to simply categorize.

Joe
 
arknova said:
I don't seem to understand whether you guys get the thread or not. It's the comparison between the hits of cues against other cues. Not a cue against itself with a SOFT OR HARD tip.


Opinions can be differing, which gladly, some nice people actually tried their best to answer and I'm really thankful. If you can't really produce anything constructive, I suggest you keep quiet =)
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Sorry.....
 
arknova said:
I don't seem to understand whether you guys get the thread or not. It's the comparison between the hits of cues against other cues. Not a cue against itself with a SOFT OR HARD tip.
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I hope you understand that the "hit" comes mostly from the tip. Obviously, you can't compare cues without tips on them. The premise of this thread is like a trick question that can't truly be answered. You should take a chill pill and listen rather than berate knowledgeable people for offering honest opinions.
 
arknova said:
Does anyone have any idea how PFD cues hit? I've always been a fan but don't really know much about the hit and stuff.
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I have a PFD sneaky. It is solid and stiff. It has a softer tip so it has a soft feel to it.

After reading Hunter's reviews I would rate my PFD sneaky at 8 for stiffness and a soft feel like Capone.
 
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I play with a Barnhart cue with an old-growth shaft, and 1/2" yellow Westinghouse micarta ferrule, and a medium-soft Milk-Dud tip.

That is quite the combo, but the result is exactly what I am looking for. The result is that the old-growth shaft with Cory's firm taper provided a firm flex to the shaft. The 1/2" micarta ferrule and Milk-Dud tip softens the hit slightly.

I get exceptional cue ball movement and english. The tip provides excellent grip. The hit feels firm, not stiff. On a long shot with some "pop" in the stroke, the object ball does not "dart off" of the path as I have a tendence to do with a Predator shaft.

Joe
 
Thanks Joe! Always been of great help ;)

Bamacues said:
I play with a Barnhart cue with an old-growth shaft, and 1/2" yellow Westinghouse micarta ferrule, and a medium-soft Milk-Dud tip.

That is quite the combo, but the result is exactly what I am looking for. The result is that the old-growth shaft with Cory's firm taper provided a firm flex to the shaft. The 1/2" micarta ferrule and Milk-Dud tip softens the hit slightly.

I get exceptional cue ball movement and english. The tip provides excellent grip. The hit feels firm, not stiff. On a long shot with some "pop" in the stroke, the object ball does not "dart off" of the path as I have a tendence to do with a Predator shaft.

Joe
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Yes I do understand it can be very tricky to answer. Which is why I've stated from the very beginning that I'm looking for opinions.

You can feel free to express how difficult it is to describe the hits, heck even constructing your own context of how your cue hits.

I've totally no dispute against that and even will love to know how your experience is. My thread is for me to really know what people's idea of their own custom cues hit.

You should understand however that there are tonnes of people who I know and will agree with me too that "hit" doesn't MOSTLY come from the tip. Feel free to ask any of the cuemakers here on AZ and they'll tell you the same. Construction of the cue DOES contribute greatly to how the cue hits. I've hit enough production cues and custom cues to know that.

Otherwise, (a simple illustration) Predator has almost 0 credibility in promoting their C4 technology in their Ikon series or their low deflection shafts as well as their cues giving a different feel from the rest. You can say it's marketing gimmick (in that case, how can their even sell their product with so many people agreeing with it?). In the end, it's relative to one's own opinions.

So how can you say a cue hit's is according to it's own tip =)?

Mitchxout said:
I hope you understand that the "hit" comes mostly from the tip. Obviously, you can't compare cues without tips on them. The premise of this thread is like a trick question that can't truly be answered. You should take a chill pill and listen rather than berate knowledgeable people for offering honest opinions.
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Bamacues said:
Stiffest cue I ever hit with was an early Kersenbrock...played great, and had a very musical sounding, resonant "ping" when you struck the ball. I assume that nothing had been changed in the shaft, but I don't know that for certain.
Joe
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Hey Joe,

I can assure you that there's nothing wrong with the cue or the shaft. I do have a couple of friends who own SW and stiff hitting cues and they all agree that there's such a positive feedback produced. I think there's a possibility that it's made that way but I've no means to be able to explain why it's like that. Will love to hear from someone who knows. Maybe I'll post another thread for such questions =D

Thanks,
Clarence
 
Ok, Let's get this thread back on track for Arknova.

Below was the original request:

I've always been wondering about how stiff the hit of cues made by top-listed or at least recognized cuemakers and will love to put it together for easy viewing.

So here it is, share your experiences! From a range of 1-10, 1 being the softest and 10 being super duper stiff. Description of stiffness taken from StrokeofLuck: "Stiffness seems to be more how the shaft reacts and hardness seems more like the resonation you feel in your hand and arm."
 
Hungarian Nut said:
Ok, Let's get this thread back on track for Arknova.

Below was the original request:

I've always been wondering about how stiff the hit of cues made by top-listed or at least recognized cuemakers and will love to put it together for easy viewing.

So here it is, share your experiences! From a range of 1-10, 1 being the softest and 10 being super duper stiff. Description of stiffness taken from StrokeofLuck: "Stiffness seems to be more how the shaft reacts and hardness seems more like the resonation you feel in your hand and arm."
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Arknova, I have a question. Based on your defnition of stiffness above being how the shaft reacts. You are defining max stiffness as a 10 and min stiffness as a 1. Does this mean 1 would be maximum whippyness and 10 would be like playing with a broom stick?

Please clarify.

Also, when do you plan to update your list?

Best regards,
MArk
 
Hungarian Nut said:
Arknova, I have a question. Based on your defnition of stiffness above being how the shaft reacts. You are defining max stiffness as a 10 and min stiffness as a 1. Does this mean 1 would be maximum whippyness and 10 would be like playing with a broom stick?

Please clarify.

Also, when do you plan to update your list?

Best regards,
MArk
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Hi Mark,

I guess that's a good gauge but feel free to improvise, heck even develop your own context so long as people understand it. The list is probably inexhaustible so anyone can feel free to review any other cuemaker they like.

Cheers,
Clarence
 
Shifted thread to cue reviews. Think it's more relevant there.

Cheers,
Clarence
 
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