Drill to stop elbow drop
- Thread starter mantis99
- Start date
I was responding to Spider's comment.: "95% of all pool-playing pros drop their elbow and that's a fact."
Lou Figueroa
Certainly not, however, with the pendulum stroke you are taught to follow through after contact until your hand hits your chest, which is what causes the deceleration.
Follow through in sports is meant to stop you from decelerating before you hit your target, release a ball, hit a volleyball or tennis ball etc. Not dropping the elbow does nothing to stop follow through of the pendulum stroke.
Neil I am not trying to throw rocks but can you hit your chest or bicep if you are not using an open or loose bridge? I have worked at length on a solid closed bridge and my follow thru stops when the cue angle changes to the point that the bridge is trapping the cue against the table surface... It makes for a very compact follow thru but since I am not physically stopping it I do not think it is detrimental....
I myself was going to link to this, just because it shows that the shot can be done both ways. I also notice in the Massey video that his elbow does not drop before contact.
I have found with my shot that I am much more accurate the quieter my arm is as a whole, and I have much less miscue on extreme shots. Maybe it is the elbow drop, and maybe something else is the cause, I am not sure.
I am open to trying anything to see what is the most effective and natural way of shooting for me. Right now though, something that includes elbow drop has me jumping the CB off the table (which I never did before) when I try to hit hard draw or very low draw. I've had a very busy week, so I haven't had a lot of time to try much of the stuff in the thread, but I plan on doing a fair amount over the weekend, and trying to get it on tape to see what I find looking at the shots.
Careful there cowboy. Randy or I will make you a bet on that one, for certain.
Pendulum or piston...both work, as is evident by many players. In the end, elbow drop is a choice, NOT a necessity. I still insist that there is no normal stroke shot that cannot be made with a pendulum swing, that can be made easier or better with a piston stroke.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
mantis99...Try doing that low draw stroke with you eyes closed. You may be surprised that you don't miscue. Keep your grip loose, and the transition from backswing to forward stroke quiet and smooth. Remember, the only difference between the #3 draw position (lowest possible) and a miscue is that 1/8" or 3mm. You can't hit lower than low...but you can swing the cue faster, and keep a loose cradle.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I think you're right about elbow drop. I plan to investigate why I have trouble with elbow drop because I've seen some of the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD using elbow drop.
If the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD thought no elbow drop was best, don't you think they would be doing it?
Use whatever stroke makes you the best player you can be.
That is definitely food for thought... I use a very long bridge as well but not for the pendulum..... You may have opened up a whole new can of worms I can beat on you about:thumbup:
Careful there cowboy. Randy or I will make you a bet on that one, for certain.
Pendulum or piston...both work, as is evident by many players. In the end, elbow drop is a choice, NOT a necessity. I still insist that there is no normal stroke shot that cannot be made with a pendulum swing, that can be made easier or better with a piston stroke.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
hey scott, how are you buddy? hope you and randy are well.
I said to Neil there are more than 1 way to skin a cat, but coming from snooker the elbow drop was the way for as the table required more power and control.
I just find these days, with the faster cloth helping players, you don't require as much power anymore, to move the cueball.
The pendulum stroke is easier to teach weaker or lesser players, the top players all drop their elbow, but it can take 3 months to master or get to grips with this technique, i know it John Morra this long when i was coaching him.
Hey buddy, once i come and do a coaching school in your city, i will show you how to master this technique.
Hope to see you soon.
your welcome Fran, anytime.
I think I can get to the crux of the matter... Raw talent in pool is not about seeing the balls it's about an innate ability to know and feel where the tip of the cue is at all times... Most pro players are professionals because they excelled very quickly due to raw talent and then put in the time to hone their skills....
This ability however is not restricted to only those who possess it at birth. It can be learned thru diligence and polished thru hard work. Those of us not born with it must develop a way to measure, quantify and know where the tip is... For that part of the pool world the pendulum may be the nutz...
For the pro players.. They can do anything they want... God gave them a talent and gave it to them in spades... For anyone to insist that an elbow drop is or is not the best way to hit the balls is absurd... It is going to be on a case by case determination....
I have never gotten to see Lee Brett hit a ball... But I know the stroke as described and I can execute it... Pure elbow drop with no backswing is nooo problem... Likely at an 80% click.... I have some talent... Father time does a funny thing with pure talent... If you don't develop it at some point he takes it away.... Ask me next year and I may hedge down to 70%...
Before you cast stones into the other camp take some time to think about the possible differences... Some people need the pendulum and some people can make due without even knowing what it is....... The best thing we can all do is to help people learn both and make their own decisions without trying to sway them with out own personal bias.....
This ability however is not restricted to only those who possess it at birth. It can be learned thru diligence and polished thru hard work. Those of us not born with it must develop a way to measure, quantify and know where the tip is... For that part of the pool world the pendulum may be the nutz...
For the pro players.. They can do anything they want... God gave them a talent and gave it to them in spades... For anyone to insist that an elbow drop is or is not the best way to hit the balls is absurd... It is going to be on a case by case determination....
I have never gotten to see Lee Brett hit a ball... But I know the stroke as described and I can execute it... Pure elbow drop with no backswing is nooo problem... Likely at an 80% click.... I have some talent... Father time does a funny thing with pure talent... If you don't develop it at some point he takes it away.... Ask me next year and I may hedge down to 70%...
Before you cast stones into the other camp take some time to think about the possible differences... Some people need the pendulum and some people can make due without even knowing what it is....... The best thing we can all do is to help people learn both and make their own decisions without trying to sway them with out own personal bias.....
all of the shots i play come from the elbow, but are guided by my v grip technique, its this grip technique that allows me, to do what i want with the cueball, and to use this grip effectively to its maximum potential, i have to drop my elbow.
At lot of the points missing, are pro's drop their elbows, all comes from the grip in the 1st place. by having the right grip allows you to hit through the cueball 100%, and extend the arm throught the shot.
At lot of the points missing, are pro's drop their elbows, all comes from the grip in the 1st place. by having the right grip allows you to hit through the cueball 100%, and extend the arm throught the shot.
to look at the elbow drop versus the pendulum stroke. its like driving a top sports car to an average sports car.
The bugati veyron (elbow drop), you will lose control unless you can learn how to control the power.
The average sports car (pendulum stroke) is much easier to control and can do the job, but its just not a bugati veyron
i prefer to drive a bugati veyron, because i can control a veyron, and can do so much more with it.
Other people prefer an average sports car, because thats all they can control and are happy with it.
Its what you prefer at the end of the day. There is more than 1 way to get from A to B..
The bugati veyron (elbow drop), you will lose control unless you can learn how to control the power.
The average sports car (pendulum stroke) is much easier to control and can do the job, but its just not a bugati veyron
i prefer to drive a bugati veyron, because i can control a veyron, and can do so much more with it.
Other people prefer an average sports car, because thats all they can control and are happy with it.
Its what you prefer at the end of the day. There is more than 1 way to get from A to B..
I've been studying this topic with some zeal over the past several days.
I've been experimenting with the pendulum stroke for longer than that and I just can't seem to improve with using it.
I'm not knocking the stroke iteslf at all if it works for others but I can attest that it certainly does not work for me.
Things have gotten so bad with my experimentation using the pendulum that I can barely make one or two balls whether I am using the pendulum or the elbow drop.
I am going to have to state that I should have never changed from the elbow drop and will have to re-integrate the elbow drop back into my own game.
For me...I guess....it actually comes down to a "to each his/her own" kind of thing and that I should not have tried to fix something that probably wasn't broken to begin with.
I'm not going to be a strong advocate for either type but will state that each individual should probably just stay within what is their own comfort zone and continue to use what works best for them.
I'm the prime example of trying to add something to an already fairly decent game and it didn't work out so well and it is costing me tremendously on the table on a daily basis just in terms of my own frustrations and embarrassments. I'm afraid to even pick up a cue now. LOL.
There's nothing better than lessons in humility. LOL.
I've been experimenting with the pendulum stroke for longer than that and I just can't seem to improve with using it.
I'm not knocking the stroke iteslf at all if it works for others but I can attest that it certainly does not work for me.
Things have gotten so bad with my experimentation using the pendulum that I can barely make one or two balls whether I am using the pendulum or the elbow drop.
I am going to have to state that I should have never changed from the elbow drop and will have to re-integrate the elbow drop back into my own game.
For me...I guess....it actually comes down to a "to each his/her own" kind of thing and that I should not have tried to fix something that probably wasn't broken to begin with.
I'm not going to be a strong advocate for either type but will state that each individual should probably just stay within what is their own comfort zone and continue to use what works best for them.
I'm the prime example of trying to add something to an already fairly decent game and it didn't work out so well and it is costing me tremendously on the table on a daily basis just in terms of my own frustrations and embarrassments. I'm afraid to even pick up a cue now. LOL.
There's nothing better than lessons in humility. LOL.