Cue ID help please

[Monstermash]

Hi guys,

I just received this as a gift and I was wondering if anyone knew what it was. I checked the BB and it looks like some of the old pre 1900 Brunswick stuff but it's not exactly like any model listed.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
'Mash

 

[cuesblues]

Haven't looked around yet but whatever it is, I thinks it's really cool...

 

[Chopdoc]

I've seen one like that recently but with a leather wrap that had the red background Brunswick decal on it. Like this:

I believe that put it in the 1921-1925 range.

The cue was extremely similar to that one including the "bevel" in the side of the BUTT, the only difference I note is the wrap.

Don't know if that helps or not.

See if you can find it here: http://www.palmercollector.com/Brunswick/BruswickCollectorHomePage.html


Very cool cue. Great condition. :thumbup:

Edit: In addition to the wrap on the one I saw being leather, the wrap also covered more of the points than yours.

 

[Monstermash]

Thanks Chopdoc,

I sent him an email and he believes it's from the 1914 Brunswick catalog only he thinks it may have been a one piece that was converted in the 50's or 60's.

If that's the case whoever did the conversion was very intent on keeping it as much "Brunswick" like as possible. The reason I say that is because way back then when Brunswick added a wrap to a cue, the technique was a little different than it is today. When they did it they didn't cut what we would today call a wrap groove. They only cut it in at each end of where the wrap was to be and then wrapped it. So what you ended up with was a hump in the middle of the wrap instead of it tapering straight.

It makes me wonder if it was something that Brunswick made in limited numbers or something custom or maybe even someone at the BBC factory customized it for himself. The wrap is consistent from the time period.

All I can say is that this must have been in a time capsule to be in the condition is it for almost being 100 years old.

If anyone else has any thoughts please feel free to add your input.

 

[Chopdoc]

I guess it's possible it was a Brunswick job, but the pin in the butt as well as the pilot speaks more of a later conversion from what I know.

I think the in-house Brunswick jobs had the pin in the shaft in that period and the pilots were substantial. Modern tolerances make such big pilots obsolte in general and we can see that the pilots generally got smaller as the decades passed until now when we see so many without a pilot at all.

It's hard to tell from your pics but it looks like it would take a smaller pilot than that time period generally had but the pin is certainly in the butt.

Of course, I am not an expert at all on these. I do enjoy the subject though.

Thanks for showing us.

 

[Monstermash]

I guess it's possible it was a Brunswick job, but the pin in the butt as well as the pilot speaks more of a later conversion from what I know.

I think the in-house Brunswick jobs had the pin in the shaft in that period and the pilots were substantial. Modern tolerances make such big pilots obsolte in general and we can see that the pilots generally got smaller as the decades passed until now when we see so many without a pilot at all.

It's hard to tell from your pics but it looks like it would take a smaller pilot than that time period generally had but the pin is certainly in the butt.

Of course, I am not an expert at all on these. I do enjoy the subject though.

Thanks for showing us.

Thank you for your input. I enjoy the subject as well.

You do have a point about the pin being installed in the butt rather than in the shaft. They were in the shaft from that time period. If it was a custom from BBC then whoever did it was way ahead of his time. Lol.

Also, there is no pilot at all. It's a flat faced joint.

 

[Chopdoc]

I assumed there was a small pilot, didn't even suspect it might be flat faced.

Some time in the next couple weeks I am going to have an example from that time period in my hands. This one has the decal I posted above.

I think it is also a later conversion. It has a small pilot and the pin in the butt....a substantially long pin by the way.

Once I have it in my hands I'll get back to this thread and we can compare/contrast the cues.

 

[Monstermash]

I assumed there was a small pilot, didn't even suspect it might be flat faced.

Some time in the next couple weeks I am going to have an example from that time period in my hands. This one has the decal I posted above.

I think it is also a later conversion. It has a small pilot and the pin in the butt....a substantially long pin by the way.

Once I have it in my hands I'll get back to this thread and we can compare/contrast the cues.

Cool, looking forward to it! :thumbup:

 

[Chopdoc]

As promised, here is the cue:

Obviously the wrap is not original. It's black with green spec linen. But it has the original Brinswick decal, and ivory joint with brass pin, ivory ferrule, and a whole lot of character.

It does have an old brown Brunswick KU bumper on it, which would not be original. The KU Bumpers came much later. These cues, if they had a bumper, originally had what was called a rubber "noise subduer", which was black and dome shaped. I think the original was about the same diameter and height as a KU, but as I said black and dome shaped. But still it's pretty cool I think.

I pulled the bumper off to compare the screw. I have some antique Brunswick parts including some KU bumpers and screws and the screw appears to be an original Brunswick KU screw as well.

Still trying to figure out if it is a conversion or original two piece. If it is a conversion it was done a long time ago....maybe 40's or 50's or earlier?

The wrap groove is the original Brunswick type that is deeper at the ends and would make a bulge in the middle. The wrap installer dealt with this by pressing the wrap more in the center and pressing it less toward the ends. It makes it look more flat. Hard to tell from the pics but that is what was done.

It does have some features in common with the OPs cue. This one has a piloted joint where his is flat faced. This one does have the flat area on the but with the weight stamp (18) though I neglected to get a picture of that. It has a brass pin as well, but I am not sure if they are the same. The wrap on this one is also more forward than the OPs, covering more of the points and generally resembling the later Master Stroke cues in a way.

So, there it is.


.

 

[Monstermash]

Thank you for posting your cue Chopdoc.

I am curious how much different the wrap section really is on your cue vs the one I have.

Here is a photo with a ruler next to it to show the length of the buttsleeve and wrap section. Could you please do the same for comparison purposes?

Thanks

 

[Chopdoc]

Great idea!

Just getting ready for work. I might be able to do it after work today.


Edit:

When I get home I will make it a priority to set up this pic. I think your camera is better than min but I will pull out the tripod, set up some light, and replicate the pic as close as I can. Yeah...sounds over the top but what the heck, try to do it right.

I am wondering....I had a little more time to compare the pics of the joint pins. They look the same to me. What do you think?

What about the shaft? Do you have a shaft for yours? If not, and you want one replicated, talk to me about it. Mine might make a nice pattern for the taper and stuff if you need a shaft made.


EDIT #2: When I got home, life got in the way....woke up a 2AM and realized I had wanted to take pictures! LOL!

So.....yeah, I'll try it again later today.

.

 

[Chopdoc]

Here it is:

Sorry the pics aren't better. I'm still learning and I was in a bit of a hurry.

As you can see the wrap area is much longer on mine, and it starts at right about 2 5/8" from the end of the butt, it ends at about 15 5/8 from the end of the butt, making it 13 inches long.

Your wrap looks to be 2" on the nose from the butt and extend to about 11 1/2", making it 9 1/2 inches long.



Anybody care to advance an opinion on re-wrapping this to make it something closer to original? Should it be natural linen, cork, black smooth leather, silk, or leave it alone?




EDIT: Yes, I know, my lighting sucks......