CueCam says no
Is it just me or does it look like that ball is being under-cut...looks to me like it's going to throw off and miss the corner, LOL
The One Thing You Must Do If You Aspire to Become Good
- Thread starter Choir Boy
- Start date
Is it just me or does it look like that ball is being under-cut...looks to me like it's going to throw off and miss the corner, LOL
For what it's worth, my intention surely wasn't to unilaterally dismiss the idea that it could be useful/helpful to see the cue ball, object ball, and pocket at the same time. However, when you speak in absolutes (as others have mentioned) there is very little room for debate or discourse. Quite simply, you're either correct or incorrect, there's no real issue of degree. If one were to accept the premise that you MUST be able to see all 3, there are a number of shots that couldn't be executed and a number of very strange positions that one might have to put him/herself into in order to achieve this goal for some shots. I think that's where the backlash comes in.
With that being said, if your initial post was framed in something other than absolute terms, you'd probably (hopefully
) get a more open discussion. :shrug:
CueCam says no
Maybe I'm miss understanding the concept but IMO all three targets are easily in my field of vision in this shot. Obviously part of the pocket is occluded but not enough for me to not be able to picture it for the purpose of the shot, which BTW includes the pocket facing from this angle of entry and not the center of the hole itself. (Just for clarification ) And for the record, just because this cue cam sees this shot this way, doesn't mean this is the only way to see it.
While the OPs statement may sound at tad "out there" at first read , after thinking about it I'm not sure of any shots that can't be 'seen' in this manner, infact I believe I do typically. At least without having a table in front of me right now.
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You need an aiming system lol
I can assure you this is a blind pocket and at 3-1/8" once you are down on the shot you would struggle to consistently pocket this ball without memorizing the angle.
I still think he's gonna miss this shot, LOL!!!
BTW, cover up the left side of this picture where the pocket is and see how much fun this shot looks...I see both sides here but I'd choose to see the pocket as opposed to not see it...just saying. But when I blew up the photo and envisioned shooting that ball (and missing due to under-cutting it) ...I found myself referencing the pocket, then memorizing the path...finally shooting ...found myself not looking at the pocket while shooting, but the thought of covering up the view of the pocket would make me crazy...so I see both sides, and thanks for confusing me!!!!
If I find myself confused and missing shots next week, I'm gonna blame all of you, LOL
lol blame it on Canada.
We did an exercise where we took a cardboard box and used it to obscure the view of the pocket on a whole bunch of different shots. It was a lot of fun and teaches you to memorize the point of contact. You will be amazed how pocketing the ball is not that hard even when you cannot see the pocket.
Here's my two cents on the subject for what it's worth (.02 ). First of all there are probably many players on here who are better than me. My days as a decent level player (i.e. shortstop) are long passed. But I do remember what it felt like to play good. 
My personal experience is that I aim for a point on the object ball that I ascertain to be the correct spot to make the shot. Along with that I determine the English I want to use on the cue ball and the speed of my stroke to move the cue ball on the desired path for the next shot. All this is done prior to getting down to shoot. Once I get down on the ball I know exactly how I want to hit the shot. While I'm taking my practice strokes, that is what I'm focused on, doing exactly that as closely as I can. My eyes only move back and forth between the cue ball and the object ball.
Where is the pocket in all this? Yes I do look at the pocket prior to getting down on the shot, SOMETIMES! Not always because (HALLELUJAH!) I already "know" where it is. When you have played pool for about a million years :thumbup:, you really do "know" the table by heart. Even today with failing eyesight and flagging concentration, I know the table better than I know the back of my hand. I just KNOW where the pockets are in relation to the balls at all times. They don't move! And the dimensions of the table don't change.
So that's me and that's what I think about all this. This is not something you have to agree with or disagree with. Maybe you do something like this and maybe you don't. There are as many styles as there are pool players. I do know that when I was playing my best pool, there was little if any conscious thought process involved. It was mostly happening on a subconscious level, kind of like automatic pilot. That's what being in "dead stroke" felt like. In that wonderful place where all shots are possible and nothing seems hard. Players today might say it's when they are running out like water! Kind of has a flow to it, doesn't it.
). First of all there are probably many players on here who are better than me. My days as a decent level player (i.e. shortstop) are long passed. But I do remember what it felt like to play good. My personal experience is that I aim for a point on the object ball that I ascertain to be the correct spot to make the shot. Along with that I determine the English I want to use on the cue ball and the speed of my stroke to move the cue ball on the desired path for the next shot. All this is done prior to getting down to shoot. Once I get down on the ball I know exactly how I want to hit the shot. While I'm taking my practice strokes, that is what I'm focused on, doing exactly that as closely as I can. My eyes only move back and forth between the cue ball and the object ball.
Where is the pocket in all this? Yes I do look at the pocket prior to getting down on the shot, SOMETIMES! Not always because (HALLELUJAH!) I already "know" where it is. When you have played pool for about a million years :thumbup:, you really do "know" the table by heart. Even today with failing eyesight and flagging concentration, I know the table better than I know the back of my hand. I just KNOW where the pockets are in relation to the balls at all times. They don't move! And the dimensions of the table don't change.
So that's me and that's what I think about all this. This is not something you have to agree with or disagree with. Maybe you do something like this and maybe you don't. There are as many styles as there are pool players. I do know that when I was playing my best pool, there was little if any conscious thought process involved. It was mostly happening on a subconscious level, kind of like automatic pilot. That's what being in "dead stroke" felt like. In that wonderful place where all shots are possible and nothing seems hard. Players today might say it's when they are running out like water! Kind of has a flow to it, doesn't it.
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Choir Boy -- Welcome aboard! You're getting a lot of push-back on what you said in post #1. But I'm not sure we all really understand or appreciate what you are trying to convey. Would you be able to take another crack at explaining this -- maybe say it differently somehow, tell us the whys and why-nots of what you are suggesting, give us examples of what you view as appropriate and inappropriate.
You said the old-timers stood fairly upright specifically to see CB, OB, and pocket at the same time. Yet Lassiter said guys who get down lower will play even better in the future? And you personally put your chin on the stick?
I've got a hunch you're presenting an interesting concept here, but I don't think we're really understanding what you mean yet. Hit us again.
You said the old-timers stood fairly upright specifically to see CB, OB, and pocket at the same time. Yet Lassiter said guys who get down lower will play even better in the future? And you personally put your chin on the stick?
I've got a hunch you're presenting an interesting concept here, but I don't think we're really understanding what you mean yet. Hit us again.
[/THREAD]
You should be able to see CB and OB...seeing the pocket is not required.
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TheThaiger
Banned
I've read a few. :wink:
In fact......I teach the stuff at the post graduate level.
Sorry if you couldn't take a little ribbing.
TheThaiger
Banned
If it's not, it SHOULD be. Well said and great post.
Ultimately, we're talking about talent here. Those with no natural aptitude endlessly fiddle at the margins, talking about hand placement, grip, aiming systems(!), PSR etc etc etc, but the really important things are talent and will.
Learn to strike the white ball good.
Learn where the pockets are.
Repeat until you have belief.
TheThaiger
Banned
It was on a barbox, and results are not typical.
(Way to call on the BSer's, though, you're just off the mark this time)
Fair enough. It was worth a try.
Maybe it's super important when first learning, until some table-memory builds up. I'm no seasoned road veteran, but I have played enough that I'm not bad if I leave out my contacts. That showed me how important everything other than the contact point is. You start to remember everything about how a type of shot feels and play accordingly.
I really don't understand why so many people on here are so stubborn and want to challenge everything that is said.
Choirboy posted a tip about pocketing balls and everyone wants to challenge his 'thought' or 'theory'. but why? why can't people just absorb what is being said, and either incorporate it into their own game or not do anything with it? Why do people have to CHALLENGE the original poster, it really doesn't make any sense. Even if the original poster is wrong (im not saying hes wrong or right) whats the difference, if it helps you then great, if it doesn't then don't use it, SIMPLE!
rant over.
Choirboy posted a tip about pocketing balls and everyone wants to challenge his 'thought' or 'theory'. but why? why can't people just absorb what is being said, and either incorporate it into their own game or not do anything with it? Why do people have to CHALLENGE the original poster, it really doesn't make any sense. Even if the original poster is wrong (im not saying hes wrong or right) whats the difference, if it helps you then great, if it doesn't then don't use it, SIMPLE!
rant over.
I agree in principle but it's not always possible (at least for me). When the cue ball is very close to the end rail and I'm forced to jack up the cue to play a stun shot or draw shot to the other end of the table, I'm standing too tall to see the cue ball, object ball, and pocket. In this case, I look at the object ball. It's also a problem on most jump shots.
On normal shots though, I'm low enough on the cue to see all three.
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