Which break ball position do you prefer?

No haters please

Ron F said:
Option B for me all day long. One benefit of a good memory is being able to recognize shots that have turned out poorly in the past - and to me Option A is one of them. Higher chance of sliding off the rack and scratching or hitting the side of the rack full and sticking to it. All the above responses were spot on. With option A I always feel I have to hit it a bit harder to prevent the cue ball from sticking to the pile or to get more draw on it to prevent a scratch - hitting it harder means my make percentage also goes down as well. I actually hate option A come to think of it. lol

Ron F
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There is no time for hate Ron, as I said either option is reliable. Remember fear is the path that leads to the dark side, fear leads to anger - anger leads to HATE, and hate leads to suffering. It's also the opposite of Love.
I actually love option A almost as much as B and the reason is cause I am not AFRAID of either shot and would always enjoy just being at the table. I am not trying to be the english police either, I just loath people who use hate as an analogy for our great game of 14.1, but they are usually starved for attention. It is very important to stay positive no matter what situation we are confronted with in the game of Pocket Billiardsr. To say you hate something and then next say with lots of love is an oxymorone. Again hate is my least favorite word, I deal with people every day who are afraid and full of anger - so once again say what you wish but know that some are reading your fearfull remarks with dissapointment. If I were you Ron I would practice option A untill your fear goes away for good.
 
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"fear is the path that leads to the dark side"

Danny, nice Star Wars reference :D

I believe Ron was joking when he said "hate".

But you're right about fear. Fear in pool (or in life) in very counterproductive will never get you anywhere. Like you said, best to tackle our fears head on, until they are no longer our fears.
 
Danny Harriman said:
I actually love option A almost as much as B and the reason is cause I am not AFRAID of either shot and would always enjoy just being at the table.
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Boy am I glad I didn't make the title, "Which break ball position do you hate more?" :D

Actually, if I find myself having a tough run of luck during a match and find myself in a frustrated mindset, I try to remind myself I'd rather be doing this than anything else at the moment, so enjoy the challenge.
 
Reading the responses is very helpful. I like having option B, but then I am still yet to break 50. I have more trouble when I get on the bottom of the rack and try to make the ball and take a couple balls out of the stack. Ive noticed with the A option I move more balls around, however with B i can move a couple and still have a decent ball to shoot at. Thanks for the post Dan. Ive really enjoyed this one.
Cheers
 
Huh?

Danny Harriman said:
There is no time for hate Ron, as I said either option is reliable. Remember fear is the path that leads to the dark side, fear leads to anger - anger leads to HATE, and hate leads to suffering. It's also the opposite of Love.
I actually love option A almost as much as B and the reason is cause I am not AFRAID of either shot and would always enjoy just being at the table. I am not trying to be the english police either, I just loath people who use hate as an analogy for our great game of 14.1, but they are usually starved for attention. It is very important to stay positive no matter what situation we are confronted with in the game of Pocket Billiardsr. To say you hate something and then next say with lots of love is an oxymorone. Again hate is my least favorite word, I deal with people every day who are afraid and full of anger - so once again say what you wish but know that some are reading your fearfull remarks with dissapointment. If I were you Ron I would practice option A untill your fear goes away for good.
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Danny,

Are you for real?

lol = "laughing out loud", not "lots of love".

I am not and have never been starved for attention.

Why would you be critical about someone saying they hate something and then turn around and say you loathe something? All you did was change the semantics to a word you find more agreeable, but essentially the same offense was committed.

When and how did "fear" come into it? When YOU play straight pool, don't you routinely select shots based upon your known make percentage? Aren't there some shots you're more confident in making than others? Would you say you "fear" those lower percentage shots simply because they're more difficult for you? I don't fear Option A. I simply much prefer Option B when given a choice as was offered by the question posed by the OP.

Finally, to me, the opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference, or apathy.

I do agree with you, however, that I should practice Option A until I love it! That's a no-brainer.

Thanks,
Ron F
 
I watched 3 or 4 good players taking alternate turns trying to run 100 at the World's a couple years ago. I think it was Tony Robles, Zion and maybe Mika and/or Lipsky.

This same discussion came up when Zion asked which ball to leave for a break shot. Tony said very definitively to leave the ball further away. His reasoning was just like Marop said - no chance of scratch in the corner. A good follow stroke won't scratch on B no matter what contact point on the stack. A good follow stroke on A could still scratch if you catch the lower side of a ball in the stack.

I used to like A more because I could read the tangent line more accurately. Now I like B more because I can still read the tangent pretty well and less chance to scratch if I misread and hit the low side of an object ball.

They are both great break shots and no reason not to get this whole rack from either location.

This is a great post Dan!

Andy
 
ok

Ron F said:
Danny,

Are you for real?

lol = "laughing out loud", not "lots of love".

I am not and have never been starved for attention.

Why would you be critical about someone saying they hate something and then turn around and say you loathe something? All you did was change the semantics to a word you find more agreeable, but essentially the same offense was committed.

When and how did "fear" come into it? When YOU play straight pool, don't you routinely select shots based upon your known make percentage? Aren't there some shots you're more confident in making than others? Would you say you "fear" those lower percentage shots simply because they're more difficult for you? I don't fear Option A. I simply much prefer Option B when given a choice as was offered by the question posed by the OP.
,
Finally, to me, the opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference, or apathy.

I do agree with you, however, that I should practice Option A until I love it! That's a no-brainer.

Thanks,
Ron F
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I guess I am wrong on this one, it's just there are a some words that strike a sour note with me and that is one of them. However I still believe that a person can be full of hate but cannot be full of loathingness. I am not an English major but I will stand firm in my belief that there is no time for hate, it would make sense to have a personal preference but not to say I hate this or that. Again samantics is over my head ans so is hate (ignorance is bliss.) My interpretation of the word in question is that if I choose to hate someone I would then dislike everything about them to the point that I would be totally consumed with fear and anger pertaining to everything about them or that - which is in my view being a very closed minded person. In my opinion a person has to hate a part of themselves in order to hate someone or something, it's just my view that to detest someone or loath something is a horse of another color. Again hate and fear are what I believe start wars, but I understand about freedom of expression. Even though I thought your response about how you hated one of the two options was indeed a knee jerk response, I have no ill feelings towards you and am glad that you realize it's a no brainer to practice option A.
 
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Well,

we are all pool-players and so i think everyone understands what Ron meant with *hate* -but on the other side i understand exactly (or i think so, lol) what Mr. Harriman wrote.

Fear and Pressure is just a product we all are creating ourselves. And before David aka BlackJack kicks my smart ass :grin-square:, there are for sure situations where everyone could fall into a situation where he has problems to control his feelings. But this is why we are practicing. That s why we should build a bulletproofed PSR. Practice gives self-confidence. We all know that just knowledge isn t enough to be a world-beater. But to put really all aspects together somehow-that s the key. If you shot the 1.000.000 balls, there are for sure balls, that you will never think about to miss them. Because you re believing yourself very hard-and do not have a minor idea that something could go wrong. This mental part is extremly important- especially if you have to run a lot of balls over a long distance (like in straight pool).
Theoretically in my opinion there are so many many players, who perhaps know the same like professional players (perhaps also more). But this not really important- if some guys would be a bit more serious about themselves, they would easily will attest, that they really not practiced so hard and structured like these players. And the few guys who are able to present excellent pool next to normal work - that s something you won t find often-but it is possible. They re somehow just self-confident enough to compete with the *big guys*. But not over a longer distance.
The mental aspect is in pool much higher than the most intermediate still thinks. Your homework is to practice the physical part-no questio about it! Again-puttin this together with the mental aspects is the key. To handle pressure situations the hardest part. This just comes with expirience on tournaments etc. -

And if i am perhaps already a bit off-topic. Systems are great-and i still like to *learn* new systems, just because i m excited about it. New knowledge is everytime something i enjoy. If we put aiming-systems....i know meanwhile several, can teach em, can execute em- but i am still not a world champ. Most of the time you will play intuitive-and this is good! Just in pressure situations, when you re going out of line, you can recall a system, or a picture out of your brain which gives you a satisfying *touch*-so that you feel self-confident again.

You like position A-and shoot it with no spending time on it
You don t like position B (for what reason ever). So you just try to remember what will happen- you just try to double check with your own expiriences you made.

So- sorry for writing almost an *off-topic* book,

lg
Ingo
 
Your right

michael4 said:
"fear is the path that leads to the dark side"

Danny, nice Star Wars reference :D

I believe Ron was joking when he said "hate".

But you're right about fear. Fear in pool (or in life) in very counterproductive will never get you anywhere. Like you said, best to tackle our fears head on, until they are no longer our fears.
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Yes it was a Star Wars reference and Steven Spielburg pays me big bucks to make that reference - not. I do agree with you about attacking your fears head on, I am too serious at times but I do have strong feelings on the subject of hate and how it is indeed the path to the dark side. But hey were all different as I could never get excited about shooting a dear unless i was starving while some people really enjoy it (including Bungelow Bill.) I am not the sharpest tool nor do I feel it is my job to tell people how to talk - but while visiting with someone who says hate more than twice in casual conversation I will soon remove myself from the scene asap.
 
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I like B for no other reason than it produces better breaks for me.

I generally like the B ball to be a little higher in the rack so it has a better chance of not getting stuck at the bottom of the table.
 
A shout out to Steven Hawking

There have been some good descriptions here of why the cue ball might get stuck to the rack and/or scratch more from position A rather than B. I wonder if a Bob Jewett type might chime in with the physics behind why this happens. I think there are too many people who perceive that the cue ball sticks to the rack from A for it to be people's imagination -- I think it has to be a real effect unlike a lot of other folklore such as force-follow putting overspin on the cue ball... things like that.
 
Closer to the stack = closer to disaster…

Danny Harriman said:
I prefer option b - no matter the playing conditions. It may be easier to see the 90 with option A, however this is where a players personality and or style enters. Either option is reliable but it is not as easy to get stuck in the stack with option B, there are many options as to how to approach either shot ie (cue ball spin.) I guess the real answer is you do not know untill your at the table, but I prefer the break ball to have some distance between it and the stack - if given the option.
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I'll use either but given the choice prefer the break ball closer to the rail/farther from the stack for the same reason Danny gives, plus a few others: 1) there's a lesser tendency to get stuck in the stack regardless of whether one stuns, draws or follows this shot (depending on the angle), 2) if one force-follows this at a back-cut angle, there is a lesser tendency to hit the stack more than twice (= already riskier than hitting it once only), 3) if one draws this on e.g. the slippery new cloth we tend to use at National and European Championships, it's more difficult to judge the amount of draw the closer the break ball is to the stack, in particular, it's tough to make the cue ball travel only slightly (= such as back to the middle of the table), 4) in the same vein, it's hard to judge the amount of slide versus draw off the stack drawing the cue ball all the way back to the end rail and back towards the center of the table (Hohmann style), and 5) there's generally a greater risk of getting off-line on break shots that are close to the stack (that is, all else being equal: e.g. given a less than perfect stop-shot end pattern).

As to the 90-degree rule and hitting the stack where one wants to, in particular on new cloth, there is no way I'd hit either of these break shots so slowly that the cue ball would not stay on the tangent line until it first hits the stack, so I fail to see a difference in this respect.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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Dan White said:
There have been some good descriptions here of why the cue ball might get stuck to the rack and/or scratch more from position A rather than B. I wonder if a Bob Jewett type might chime in with the physics behind why this happens. I think there are too many people who perceive that the cue ball sticks to the rack from A for it to be people's imagination -- I think it has to be a real effect unlike a lot of other folklore such as force-follow putting overspin on the cue ball... things like that.
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Not rocket science, I guess - it's really only due to the fact that whatever spin (draw, follow action) the cue ball is given, the farther the break ball is from the stack, the more said spin has time/distance to grab/take (versus hitting the stack sliding all the way there, with friction between the "lighter" mass of the cue ball versus the "greater" mass of the contacted ball(s) in the stack upon impact taking away from the imparted draw or follow before it grabs/takes on the cloth).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
Dan White said:
There have been some good descriptions here of why the cue ball might get stuck to the rack and/or scratch more from position A rather than B. I wonder if a Bob Jewett type might chime in with the physics behind why this happens. I think there are too many people who perceive that the cue ball sticks to the rack from A for it to be people's imagination -- I think it has to be a real effect unlike a lot of other folklore such as force-follow putting overspin on the cue ball... things like that.
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If the cue ball lands on the rack in the same place with the same speed and spin and direction, it will do the same thing. It does not matter how far away from the rack it started. In general you have more control over your landing spot if you start from farther back, but you have more certainty on where the cue ball will land if the break ball is very close to the rack.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If the cue ball lands on the rack in the same place with the same speed and spin and direction, it will do the same thing. It does not matter how far away from the rack it started. In general you have more control over your landing spot if you start from farther back, but you have more certainty on where the cue ball will land if the break ball is very close to the rack.
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What do you attribute the increased number of scratches with option A to? Or, do you dispute that there is a difference? In option B it sounds like most people will be rolling the cue ball into the pack with follow or draw, whereas in option A the cue ball is probably stunning into the rack before picking up any spin. Maybe that has something to do with it.
 
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