A long comment on "aiming systems" ...

cfrandy said:
Joey, everyone has an opinion on what works for THEM. I've listen to the pros. I've posted the article where 12 pros were interviewed about their aiming methods. The FACT is, the is no SECRET method of aiming. Some systems work for some but no one system works for all! Most pros have and still do use ghostball or their own variation of it! You can debate all you want but you cannot change the facts. Yes, some people have a what seems to be a natural ability...but most do not and therefore we require pratice to acquire such an ability. Aiming is only one part of of many disciplines called the fundamentals. I simply do not understand why so much talk is about the simplest discipline of all, and nobody talks about the other disciplines. There are a lot of reasons why advanced pool players will miss both easy and hard shots...few will EVER miss a shot because their aim was off!
There is NOTHING natural about playing pool! There are no natural instincts passed on by generations of our species. The skills you need to play this game you will need to acquire! The more you practice the basic fundamentals of pool, the more skills you will acquire! It is realy that simple! There are no shortcuts! To become a world class player you will need to do what every other world class player has done. Practice, practice, practice! No world class player became a world class player because of he found a shortcut or a new device that enables him or her to play better than anyone else.
There is also the mental aspect of this game that too many people dimiss. Probably the most important is motivation! What motivates you to play this game? When your motivation becomes your livelihood than you will make the sacrifices to acquire the necessary skills to get a paycheck now and then. When your motivation is to impress your buddies, you will be less likely to make the same sacrifices as a world class player!
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Just watched the pros at Derby City, they spent the most time while down on there shot zeroing in on their aim. They all have good strokes so their aim is where their focus was, whatever their system was they were taking their time to focus on it.
If your not a natural and you say no one is then you must focus hard to make the ball.
If your teaching beginners to mid level players than I could see focusing on stroke.
 
lfigueroa said:
Neil, I appreciate what you are trying to say, but honestly, what you see as cold hard fact, many of us see as highly questionable.

I don't, for a second, believe anyone here is trying too inhibit knowledge, or keep someone from getting better, or get better faster without paying their dues. To a man, I think everyone on this board embraces the principles of getting better as efficiently as possible.

However, that doesn't mean that questionable concepts get carte blanche. The ones with the question marks get and deserve *everyone's* scrutiny and examination. Where, IMO, things tend to get off-track is when the proponents of some of these questionable concepts advocate them with a zealotry and fanaticism that makes them bristles at any doubter. And then the barbs come because it is, frankly, just too funny how over the top some proponents get when it comes to pushing what they believe to be cold hard facts that the rest of us find pretty dubious.

That's all.

Lou Figueroa
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Find these things posted in any aiming thread in the last couple years "zealotry and fanaticism", only by naysayers, only ones bringing them up. Its your fallback.
 
Grilled Cheese said:
Aiming system excuses:


1. The aiming system works perfect, I missed because I botched up my stroke.

A: Great, go work on your stroke which is now the most important thing, not your aiming system. The aiming system is perfect after all. You have been given the line. Done. On to other things.




2. The aiming system works perfect, but takes time to learn.

A: So much for being a short-cut.




3. The aiming system works perfect, I missed because I didn't use the aiming system correctly!

A: Well, that's acceptable, but no true system once learned should be prone to misuse. Misses ought to be extremely rare. Leading to world-class play. If not, the problem is probably stroke. See the answer to excuse #1, go work on your stroke.



4. The aiming system is perfect and produces the true line of aim, but only this little tiny part of it is "feel" and "judgment" ..

A: Then it is not a system that produces the true line of aim for you. You're doing it by feel and judgement.
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You left one off: You have to *really* want to learn it, and it's variant, you didn't want to learn it bad enough.

Lou Figueroa
 
cookie man said:
Just watched the pros at Derby City, they spent the most time while down on there shot zeroing in on their aim. They all have good strokes so their aim is where their focus was, whatever their system was they were taking their time to focus on it.
If your not a natural and you say no one is then you must focus hard to make the ball.
If your teaching beginners to mid level players than I could see focusing on stroke.
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Hmmmm, in your last post you said "CTE/Pro1 does NOT require too much focus on aiming"...so I guess you have just confirmed that the pros you watched at Derby City were NOT using CTE/Pro 1! I could have told you that!

I've watched the pros play myself...many, many, times! I watched both Johnny Archer and Kim Davenport play many times at Marietta Billiards Club (the place I visited the most when I was on the road). Most if not all the pros have visualized their aiming (shot) line BEFORE they go down on the shot. Once they are down, they are now focusing on another aspect of the shot execution (usually small adjustments to tip placement). Nobody really sees the shot line after they are down. The only exception may be an ultra-thin (edge to edge) cut. Most pros have already put "aiming" on auto-pilot...that is why they practice, practice, practice!
 
cfrandy said:
DAM is the "system" I use! I determine my line of aim using ghostball...or maybe just experience. I make 98% of all makeable shots, so I think this has been a very accurate "system" for me! Of course, I have a little practice with it...like maybe 50+ years.;)
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COUGH COUGH BS.

I will bet $10,000 that you cannot beat the nine ball ghost in a race to nine.

If you make 98% of makeable shots then you are top pro speed. So get up there and take the money or be branded a liar.

The only shots which are not "makeable" are shots that are more than 90 degrees. So get your ass up on the table and BET something. I have seen a lot of fish stories but this one really stinks.

Anyone want part of this action? It's lock. If you are so good then let's see you take the $100 challenge I laid down to beat Dave Segal's score in Colin Colenso's pocketing test.

Just to help you out a little this means that you make 98 out of every 100 makeable shots you face. You can keep me broke betting on that if you can do it because I think you are a liar.
 
cfrandy said:
Hmmmm, in your last post you said "CTE/Pro1 does NOT require too much focus on aiming"...so I guess you have just confirmed that the pros you watched at Derby City were NOT using CTE/Pro 1! I could have told you that!

I've watched the pros play myself...many, many, times! I watched both Johnny Archer and Kim Davenport play many times at Marietta Billiards Club (the place I visited the most when I was on the road). Most if not all the pros have visualized their aiming (shot) line BEFORE they go down on the shot. Once they are down, they are now focusing on another aspect of the shot execution (usually small adjustments to tip placement). Nobody really sees the shot line after they are down. The only exception may be an ultra-thin (edge to edge) cut. Most pros have already put "aiming" on auto-pilot...that is why they practice, practice, practice!
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Did you ever TALK to Johnny about how he aims or why he does what he does in any aspect of his game?

I have.

And I have talked to many other pros about it.

All in quest to understand more about the subject. What do you do? You drive up and hang out and maybe play a little and you leave.

There is no way you have spent as much time on this as Stan and other instructors, no way that you are as good as you claim to be. You don't know jack about what most pros do or you wouldn't be limited to digging up articles from 20 years ago that most of us have seen a dozen times.

No, you'd be in those articles. Instead you're a complete nobody that nobody knows talking back to people who can spot you the world.
 
scrappy said:
we are all individuals, if something works for you then great

:confused:
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Wow, a tolerant Person on an AZ aiming thread.

I was reading this thread and seeing all the pain that players have when thinking about others' aiming systems, so I was thinking of giving up on my new aiming system because, even though it improved my game by a big notch, it makes other players' heads hurt.

Now, I'm confused....aim better or please my opponents?

Jeff Livingston
 
champ2107 said:
The above bold is exactly what cte/pro1 will do if you learn it and follow all the steps and you have the willingness and determination! It will bring you to auto pilot!!

you say practice,practice,practice? yet you get the dvd and two days later, you gave up and come on this forum and trash the system? i think its time for you relax now and give up this witch hunt your doing because all it will do is expose your ignorance more and more and you will just embarrass yourself <<< i dislike doing this but often there is no choice on here :(

Its all over now! you have a choice,you can either learn it or dont and if its not for you then thats fine nobody cares.
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Champ I do NOT need to learn a new way to aim! I am not on a "witch hunt"...I have NO financial interest in ANY aiming system. In fact, I have said many times...find a system that works for you and practice it! I never said which system YOU should try. I will continue to teach the GB method of aiming simply because it is easier for new people to grasp and it is also effective! It's just that simple!
Don't make this personal! I have never said YOU are wrong because YOU don't aim the same way I do!
 
cfrandy said:
Like I said, "...some may think going "down" on the shot is something other than moving from the stance to actually placing the bridge hand on the table...but "going down on the shot" means exactly that!"
You are already "down" when you "settle into shooting position" (your words, not mine). John you can make up your own definitions, but for everyone else going down is going down!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BL4-OQqbQs

Fast forward to the 5:00 mark.


Jeff Livingston
 
cfrandy said:
Champ I do NOT need to learn a new way to aim! I am not on a "witch hunt"...I have NO financial interest in ANY aiming system. In fact, I have said many times...find a system that works for you and practice it! I never said which system YOU should try. I will continue to teach the GB method of aiming simply because it is easier for new people to grasp and it is also effective! It's just that simple!
Don't make this personal! I have never said YOU are wrong because YOU don't aim the same way I do!
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Why wouldn't you continue to teach what you know. You certainly can't teach what Stan does because you either can't or won't learn it. But you think you know enough about it to call it a waste of money, i.e. saying that anyone who buys it is wasting their money and time.

Thus you ARE in fact saying that what you do is BETTER than what Champ does.

Stop lying Randy.

Stan didn't sell you a video so that you would have something to teach whatever students are ignorant enough to take lessons from you. He sold you a video to introduce you to a method that works superbly but takes work incorporate in your game.

You obviously thought it was either going to be something you could get in five minutes or you thought you were going to knock it even before it arrived.

That you, a claimed TEACHER, wouldn't bother to take five minutes to call Stan and discuss the information but yet you felt comfortable enough to come on here and call this man's work a "waste of money" shows EVERYONE what your motivation is.

Anyone really interested in learning and teaching would have called Stan to discuss it and would have given it a fair shot on the table. I took mine to the pool room several times and once to a renowned pool coach here to let him watch it. Even though he doesn't speak english he watched it, went through the motions, and said "it works". Of course you know far more than a guy who trains REAL champions, including the recent Chinese champion.
 
champ2107 said:
i think we all have benefited from all the debating we have had one way or another and if i offended you, i apologize! i dont want to tell you what to do or your way is wrong,etc, i just wanted to help your opinion be a more informed. one last thing i hope you now give Stan and his accomplishments the proper respect i will now show you and again i am sorry if i offended you in any way :)
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You have not offended me...and, I too apologize if indeed you have felt offended. I just hate to see these debates reduced to name-calling and insults. The trolls love it that way...we do not!

If you still want to show me your video, I would be happy to observe.
Thanks!
 
champ2107 said:
i think we all have benefited from all the debating we have had one way or another and if i offended you, i apologize! i dont want to tell you what to do or your way is wrong,etc, i just wanted to help your opinion be a more informed. one last thing i hope you now give Stan and his accomplishments the proper respect i will now show you and again i am sorry if i offended you in any way :)
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I never thought I would find myself saying this to you, champ, but that was a very nice post. :thumbup:

Roger
 
Seems to me that nobody is happy until someome ( or more ) gets banned.

The rules on AZB apply to PMs you guys send each other too.
 
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