John Brumback's "Bank Pool Secrets of a World Champion"

[sfleinen]

But why doesn't pool have "those numbers"? It certainly used to!

There is something fundamentally different about pool, I think. The snooker world doesn't exist in this orbit at all.

The pool players' psyche is dark and deep...

Certainly used to? Baloney. Even in pool's heyday, we were talking, what, a hundred thousand players devoted enough to even buy an instructional DVD? If that many?

And you're trying to compare that with the music industry, which, even for a single genre of music, you're talking a potential audience of literally millions?

I would go on record to challenge your notion that things are different for snooker in this regard. Do you really think if, say, Ronnie O'Sullivan were to come out with a snooker instructional on DVD, that they'd charge only £5 for it? I don't think so, even with snooker's apparent greater concentrated popularity worldwide.

-Sean

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[sfleinen]

No one knows. That's why there are us teachers...

Ahhhhh, here we go -- the "because I'm from across the pond, all you former colonists automatically, by default, defer to my knowledge" thing.

I *knew* that was going to show itself in here, sooner or later.

-Sean

 

[TheThaiger]

I won't comment on Tim's action on these boards, but I will say this: he's tenacious to his beliefs and expresses them, which, no matter what we think of them, is an admirable trait to have.

-Sean

Thanks for that. There are some on here with god-complexes, who are extremely intolerant and bigoted; the first to preach and the last to listen. You can almost hear the screech of their fingernails as they slide down the chalkboard, desperate to hang onto their own personal fiefdom, and drunk on power. The toys go out the pram the second there's a challenge to their authority or perceived wisdom.

Their views are valueless and dated, and they do more to harm the membership of this board than I ever could. I suspect I'm rather good for business, actually. :grin:

 

[TheThaiger]

Ahhhhh, here we go -- the "because I'm from across the pond, all you former colonists automatically, by default, defer to my knowledge" thing.

I *knew* that was going to show itself in here, sooner or later.

-Sean

:grin:

It was YOU that said it in your first PM to me! I'd never even considered it, nor do I think it. It's usually us Brits who have an inferiority complex, not you yanks!

 

[sfleinen]

:grin:

It was YOU that said it in your first PM to me! I'd never even considered it, nor do I think it. It's usually us Brits who have an inferiority complex, not you yanks!

Actually, there was an implied smiley there that you didn't catch. Granted, I should've put one to be clear, but I thought you would've picked up on the ribbing.

And, concerning the "who said it first" -- yes, I was the first to call you out on it. Because whether you intend to or not, the superiority-complex-hiding-an-inferiority-complex thing drips in buckets in many of the things you post.

-Sean

 

[TheThaiger]

No, just for your trolling and driving good posters away from posting on here. You apparently learned nothing by getting banned from other forums.

Firstly, what other forums have I been banned from? I don't think I've ever been banned from a forum.

Secondly, which posters have I driven away - name them and I'll PM them with an apology.

Thirdly, did you, or did you not, write "He also is a socialists that thinks that one one person worked for should freely be given to all. Why this guy is still green and even allowed to post on here is beyond me."

Now, to my untrained eye, that looks like a call for people to send me red rep, and for me to be banned for my socialist beliefs.

In my view that's bullying.

 

[TheThaiger]

Actually, there was an implied smiley there that you didn't catch. Granted, I should've put one to be clear, but I thought you would've picked up on the ribbing.

And, concerning the "who said it first" -- yes, I was the first to call you out on it. Because whether you intend to or not, the superiority-complex-hiding-an-inferiority-complex thing drips in buckets in many of the things you post.

-Sean

{sheet, must be more subtle in future}.

I knew you were joking. Unlike many, I don't actively seek to be offended.

 

[jalapus logan]

Actually, there was an implied smiley there that you didn't catch. Granted, I should've put one to be clear, but I thought you would've picked up on the ribbing.

And, concerning the "who said it first" -- yes, I was the first to call you out on it. Because whether you intend to or not, the superiority-complex-hiding-an-inferiority-complex thing drips in buckets in many of the things you post.

-Sean

Will you guys please stop responding to Thaiger?!? I have had him on ignore, but you guys quoting him is causing me to catch accidental glimpses of his ignorance.

 

[schmizz]

And flog his used copy of this very DVD, apparently.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=264109

Money. It's always with the money.

:bow-down: That is awesome! What a hypocrite.

 

[Banks]

Actually, there was an implied smiley there that you didn't catch. Granted, I should've put one to be clear, but I thought you would've picked up on the ribbing.

And, concerning the "who said it first" -- yes, I was the first to call you out on it. Because whether you intend to or not, the superiority-complex-hiding-an-inferiority-complex thing drips in buckets in ALL of the things you post.

-Sean

Yes, you may put this on thereifixedit.com ... :thumbup:

Now, to my untrained eye, that looks like a call for people to send me red rep, and for me to be banned for my socialist beliefs.

In my view that's bullying.

It is bullying, just like trying to impose your own values onto somebody else's product. The difference is, you claim 'values' and 'morals' as your agenda, when that is far from the truth. It's just selfishness and a feeble attempt to impose your sense of worth onto the work of others.

I can't believe you're whining about 50USD. How much is a tea and crumpet while you play an hour of snooker? 20 brit pounds? 25? I'm guessing that you're just a troll with a game to match, since you care nothing for useful information and have none yourself to provide.

You're going to the ignore section, along with a few others that don't contribute anything but ignorance and headaches. Buh-bye. :wave3:

 

[justadub]

This isn't about JB's DVD. I appreciate the difficulties and understand why it's priced as it is. This is wider and deeper, about why we, as players, will pay anything for our fix, and what consequences that generates.

If $50 is reasonable, why not $100? $300? I hear there's a REALLY good one coming out on aiming systems for $1000 - wanna pay your deposit now?

I call shenanigans. (Or bullspit, if you'd prefer.)

You say you understand why Johns DVD is priced as it is. Yet back in post #68...

"We really MUST get away from this idea that a product is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. That is true for originals, like a Picasso, but for a mass-marketed DVD that costs 2 bucks to produce, it is RIDICULOUS. Manufacturers are playing on our vanity, and we are letting them."

You really must try and better remember your arguments, if you really wanna be a good troll. And I fully realize that is what you are, and have been. Usually I ignore them, but occasionally I like to play, too. especially when I can catch them conflicting themselves...

 

[TheThaiger]

Certainly used to? Baloney. Even in pool's heyday, we were talking, what, a hundred thousand players devoted enough to even buy an instructional DVD? If that many?

And you're trying to compare that with the music industry, which, even for a single genre of music, you're talking a potential audience of literally millions?

I would go on record to challenge your notion that things are different for snooker in this regard. Do you really think if, say, Ronnie O'Sullivan were to come out with a snooker instructional on DVD, that they'd charge only £5 for it? I don't think so, even with snooker's apparent greater concentrated popularity worldwide.

-Sean

That's interesting. if Ronnie O tried to sell a DVD for anything over a tenner, he'd be lynched.

Total lifetime expenditure for a snooker player:

One cue - preferably borrowed, inherited or stolen, if not, less than £50.
One case - preferable borrowed, inherited or stolen, if not, less than £10.
One towel - definitely borrowed, inherited or stolen. Filthy.
One piece of chalk - ditto. Well used.

That's it. Literally nothing on anything else, ever. EVER. A tip must last years and years, must be an elk and must be acquired and fitted for free, or in exchange for a pint.

English 8 ball pool players are even more suspicious of those that spend money on pool equipment. They think us 9 ballers are jessies, and simply cannot believe how much we spend on our gear. They literally think I'm lying when I tell the how much my cue cost (it was $286 - a comparative steal).

And guess what? They can all cue straight as a dye.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

No one is forcing anyone to buy a product.
Some people value certain information, others don't.

But i come from a generation, where if you actually wanted the information, it wasn't free.
If you wanted to learn something, it was gonna cost you. A LOT!

What do i mean by that? If you wanted some trade secrets, it was gonna cost you a lung. That meant, getting up there and playing, and taking a pounding repeatedly, until whoever was doing the pounding, would give you a pointer or two, if that ever happened. Why give information away cheap, if it can be used against you?

Now people can argue about what is useful info and what is not. It happens on these forums every day.

But as far as banking is concerned...
Unless you live in Southern Ohio, or Kentucky, you'd be hard pressed to find a bonafied bank pool champ in your area to give you lessons.

Believe me, no one really knows what banking is about, unless you've been out that way.
It's like a alternate universe where all they do is bank balls.
It's only because of the Derby, that there is more exposure to the game, but to me, that's where banking's heart and soul is.

You are talking about an area of the country where i walked into a pool room to check out when the weekly 9ball tournament was, and found out they didn't ever have one. Instead, it was weekly BANK POOL tournaments.
Banking is a part of their culture, not like the rest of the world.

Unless you are a local, just driving out there is gonna cost you way more then $50 in gas.
Getting BBQed by a local bank pool champ is gonna cost you even more. (RIP Gary Spaeth )

And driving out to the Derby, getting the hotel room, and paying your entry fee, only to have some local bank pool champ destroy you, is no prize. And will also cost way more then $50 bucks.

Guaranteed, if you like banks, this is info that would otherwise be, very difficult to obtain, unless you are willing to hang your ass out to dry.

You gotta pay you dues.
In terms of paying your dues, $50 for this info is a steal.

To those that want the info, but think $50 is too steep, you could always do it the old fashioned way and ask John B. to gamble.
I'm sure he might throw you a couple of pointers after he's buried you for a few of days.

 

[TheThaiger]

I call shenanigans. (Or bullspit, if you'd prefer.)

You say you understand why Johns DVD is priced as it is. Yet back in post #68...

"We really MUST get away from this idea that a product is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. That is true for originals, like a Picasso, but for a mass-marketed DVD that costs 2 bucks to produce, it is RIDICULOUS. Manufacturers are playing on our vanity, and we are letting them."

You really must try and better remember your arguments, if you really wanna be a good troll. And I fully realize that is what you are, and have been. Usually I ignore them, but occasionally I like to play, too. especially when I can catch them conflicting themselves...

I don't see the contradiction, and think you are conflating two different issues.

 

[TheThaiger]

No one is forcing anyone to buy a product.
Some people value certain information, others don't.

But i come from a generation, where if you actually wanted the information, it wasn't free.
If you wanted to learn something, it was gonna cost you. A LOT!

What do i mean by that? If you wanted some trade secrets, it was gonna cost you a lung. That meant, getting up there and playing, and taking a pounding repeatedly, until whoever was doing the pounding, would give you a pointer or two, if that ever happened. Why give information away cheap, if it can be used against you?

Now people can argue about what is useful info and what is not. It happens on these forums every day.

But as far as banking is concerned...
Unless you live in Southern Ohio, or Kentucky, you'd be hard pressed to find a bonafied bank pool champ in your area to give you lessons.

Believe me, no one really knows what banking is about, unless you've been out that way.
It's like a alternate universe where all they do is bank balls.
It's only because of the Derby, that there is more exposure to the game, but to me, that's where banking's heart and soul is.

You are talking about an area of the country where i walked into a pool room to check out when the weekly 9ball tournament was, and found out they didn't ever have one. Instead, it was weekly BANK POOL tournaments.
Banking is a part of their culture, not like the rest of the world.

Unless you are a local, just driving out there is gonna cost you way more then $50 in gas.
Getting BBQed by a local bank pool champ is gonna cost you even more. (RIP Gary Spaeth )

And driving out to the Derby, getting the hotel room, and paying your entry fee, only to have some local bank pool champ destroy you, is no prize. And will also cost way more then $50 bucks.

Guaranteed, if you like banks, this is info that would otherwise be, very difficult to obtain, unless you are willing to hang your ass out to dry.

You gotta pay you dues.
In terms of paying your dues, $50 for this info is a steal.

To those that want the info, but think $50 is too steep, you could always do it the old fashioned way and ask John B. to gamble.
I'm sure he might throw you a couple of pointers after he's buried you for a few of days.

Ok, but I come from a generation - THIS generation - where information is democratised and freely available to all.

It's a drum I'm sick of beating, but pool drags itself into the modern world or it dies for good. We all bear that responsibility.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

He does seem a very nice fella but $50? Not ever, on a point of principle.

Only in pool.

People will spend $25 on a piece of chalk thinking that it will improve their game but you wince at $50 to gain knowledge that will last a life time and will definitely improve their game.

Yeah, yer right. Only in pool.

Of all the money I have spent and some of it wasted on pool over a short period of time, I wouldn't think twice on a 50 if it were to help my banking just a little.

 

[schmizz]

I just want to make a couple of quick points. First of all you can't even compare this product to COD. The newest COD cost $50 mil to develop and $200 mil was spent on marketing. Two products in completely different realms selling for approximately the same price.
The producer of this DVD has a God given right to charge whatever he chooses for his product. IMHO a $50 price tag for a DVD is just bad marketing no matter what the content is. In this age of piracy (which is obviously theft, but a reality) I think a $50 price tag is going to compel more people who live in a morally grey area to outright steal the video, that would have more than likely been willing to plunk $20-$30 down for a legitimate copy. I'm not saying the video or information is not worth $50, but I think you need to be realistic about the society we live in and human nature in general. I think by putting that price tag on it, you're actually hurting your own wallet in the end.
I can't afford to pay $50 for it right now, that's why I asked if someone had a used copy for sale. If I don't find a used copy I will save until I can afford a new copy, because i value the information it has to offer. But there are a lot of people who would pay $20-$30 on an impulse purchase, where $50 just sounds outrageous to them.

 

[chevybob20]

Do you mean socialized instead? Those DVD's and the ideas on them are the property of those who produced them. No matter how much people wish for the ability to covet the fruits of others labor, it's not fully possible yet in the USA. I bet lead will fly before that happens.

 

[MahnaMahna]

Ok, but I come from a generation - THIS generation - where information is democratised and freely available to all.

It's a drum I'm sick of beating, but pool drags itself into the modern world or it dies for good. We all bear that responsibility.

Then quit beating your drum and get the hell out of here. I don't bear responsibility for a f*cking word you are speaking, so stop acting like you represent the best interests of the game or have any idea what should happen.

If you and your BS is what pool needs to "drag itself into the modern world or it dies for good", then let me help dig the grave.