Center-ball/top-spin cut shots more difficult with a LD shaft?

SeanC

needs practice...
Silver Member
Whenever I switch back to the original Schon shaft, or another solid maple shaft, I feel my center ball or top spin cut shots are more "direct" and to the point, resulting in more balls made...

However, whenever I shoot the same shots with my 314-2, I don't feel as much confident with the hit and sometimes miss even the easiest shots.

I am an APA SL6 player and have a good stroke with nice follow through.

Any comments/suggestions out there why this might be the case?
 
Could it be that you are just more used to the Schon shaft than the 314-2? How long have you played with either shaft? I am very interested in the responses to your post because I am in a similar situation, although I cannot see such a difference in performance ( mainly because of lack of experience).
 
Could it be that you are just more used to the Schon shaft than the 314-2? How long have you played with either shaft? I am very interested in the responses to your post because I am in a similar situation, although I cannot see such a difference in performance ( mainly because of lack of experience).

314-2 is my regular player for many months now due to the fact it certainly deflects a lot less on shots where side english is needed. I can safely say that I am more used to the 314-2 than the Schon shaft.

Here's a test for you to perform- Take 5 striped balls. Use each one as the cb, and orient the stripe to where you can easily remember how it was oriented after 5 shots. Set up an ob and the cb. (remember, cb is a stripe ball) Using your Schon shaft, shoot the shot. Set up the shot again using another "cb". Leave each "cb" where it ends up. Do this 5 times.

After you have shot with all 5 "cb's", carefully pick up each one, one at a time, and find the chalk mark on each one. Did you hit with vertical center on each one, or did you have some unintended english on each one?

My guess is that you are subconsciously adding some english on each shot because you are not actually hitting center ball, and subconsciously adjusting for it. When you use the LD shaft, you don't need as much compensation, and thereby miss the shot.

Thanks Neil, I'll definitely do this on Sunday when I get some table time (don't have a table at home).

It feels like I need to be a lot more careful with the 314-2 especially on long cut shots where no unwanted side spin is needed. With a solid shaft, I just aim and shoot, and I feel more confident that it'll go in.

Could it be that since the 314-2 has more flex, that translates into unwanted side-up-down-whatever spin at the tip-CB contact?
 
If you're truly hitting center (axis), the shafts shouldn't matter. Neil's right -- you're probably not hitting the vertical axis and the predator is sending you where you're actually hitting.
 
I have always felt that the Predator LD shafts were hot on the bottom of the ball and weak on the top of it... The Ob shaft was more balanced and did top and bottom but I couldn't really load the ball up on stun spin the ball around the table with it....

The OB Classic pro I tried seemed to be the best of the bunch as far as production shafts were concerned....

I had a custom cue maker actually develop an LD shaft because of my refusal to switch back to nomal maple and the only way I would order a cue was if he could make it play like I wanted....

We spent 6 months going back and forth on different revisions with different materials, void sizes and depths... The final design has no hot spots and works well on top, below or even loading the cue ball up.....
If I had the cash to produce and market them they would give all of the current LDs on the market a run for their money........
 
No, to your last question. Let me see if I can be a little clearer- what I think might be happening, is that you think you are hitting center axis, but in reality are hitting with a little english. Your subconscious has learned how to compensate for that hit. With the Schon, you get more squirt with the cb. With the LD shaft, you don't get a much squirt, but your subconscious is still allowing for it. Make sure you actually are hitting on the center axis, and your problem with the LD should go away.

I did the test yesterday and found out all 5 balls were hit dead center along the vertical axis. I double checked and rolled the ball a few times from the head spot down the table and made sure it came right back to the tip of my cue. So I guess my problem is not with subconsciously adjusting for English.

I realized another thing though: My dead straight-in shots are even worse than those cuts when center ball or above is used along the vertical axis. I can still make 'em %90+ of the time (depending on the shot), but I need to concentrate a lot more on the shot to make sure the cue ball is not thrown to an unwanted point of contact.

I have always felt that the Predator LD shafts were hot on the bottom of the ball and weak on the top of it... The Ob shaft was more balanced and did top and bottom but I couldn't really load the ball up on stun spin the ball around the table with it....

The OB Classic pro I tried seemed to be the best of the bunch as far as production shafts were concerned....

I agree with your points. I seem to do much better with my 314-2 when I play with a little bottom. Feels like not as much concentration is needed. I've also had a OBC and OBCP, and they were indeed more consistent when I used top spin, but didn't care for the taper in either of them.

So I think my problem right now with the 314-2 is the lack of stiffness which results in a lack of confidence in the shaft. It is funny because the only reason I made this thread is that I started suffering from this recently, otherwise I've been playing with this shaft for months now...
 
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I am sure that you are trying this, but I thought I would throw it in just in case.

Try practicing long, straight stop shots, and use a striped ball for the cue ball.

If the cue ball does not stop dead on the object ball, it does not count. Using the striped ball you will see if you have any spin when hitting the OB, or if this is an alignment issue.

I did the test yesterday and found out all 5 balls were hit dead center along the vertical axis. I double checked and rolled the ball a few times from the head spot down the table and made sure it came right back to the tip of my cue. So I guess my problem is not with subconsciously adjusting for English.

I realized another thing though: My dead straight-in shots are even worse than those cuts when center ball or above is used along the vertical axis. I can still make 'em %90+ of the time (depending on the shot), but I need to concentrate a lot more on the shot to make sure the cue ball is not thrown to an unwanted point of contact.



I agree with your points. I seem to do much better with my 314-2 when I play with a little bottom. Feels like not as much concentration is needed. I've also had a OBC and OBCP, and they were indeed more consistent when I used top spin, but didn't care for the taper in either of them.

So I think my problem right now with the 314-2 is the lack of stiffness which results in a lack of confidence in the shaft. It is funny because the only reason I made this thread is that I started suffering from this recently, otherwise I've been playing with this shaft for months now...
 
I am sure that you are trying this, but I thought I would throw it in just in case.

Try practicing long, straight stop shots, and use a striped ball for the cue ball.

If the cue ball does not stop dead on the object ball, it does not count. Using the striped ball you will see if you have any spin when hitting the OB, or if this is an alignment issue.

Good idea! Haven't tried that, will do so on Sunday. Thanks!
 
I am sure that you are trying this, but I thought I would throw it in just in case.

Try practicing long, straight stop shots, and use a striped ball for the cue ball.

If the cue ball does not stop dead on the object ball, it does not count. Using the striped ball you will see if you have any spin when hitting the OB, or if this is an alignment issue.

I did realize a little spin being put on the cue ball after trying this along the table diagonal (cue ball close to the corner pocket, object ball in the middle of the table). I will make this shot part of my routine practice shots. Definitely not as easy as I thought it would be. Thanks for the suggestion, I am sure it will help me straighten up my other shots as well!
 
Hola :)

SeanC: it will help for sure. And about stopshot drills (like Tony shown up with his advice)- There is absolutley NO TOLERANCE. A stop is a stop-nothing else counts!

keep shooting:)

lg
Ingo
 
I am about to call the 314-2 quits. It's just not cut shots, but also straight-ins that are more difficult with a 314-2 (FOR ME). Been trying and observing the advantages/disadvantages of this shaft for some time.

Whenever I switch back to my Schon shaft, or simply play with my R-12 with the original stitched ring shaft, those long distance straight-ins and simple cut shots become even easier. Just aim, and shoot. It goes where I want!

I can afford to lose the action and spin that I've been able to achieve with the 314-2 (and settle for a more difficult position if necessary), but I definitely can't afford to miss cut shots and straight-ins.

Sorry Predator. I will keep you in my case for some more, but probably not for long.
 
100000000% Positive, when hitting the CB on the vertical axis wether it be high or low or dead center CB the shot does not change what so ever from shaft to shaft.

LD or anysuch thing has no affect on such shots. I completely agree with Neil that your aiming at center but are hitting the ball with english.

-Grey Ghost
 
100000000% Positive, when hitting the CB on the vertical axis wether it be high or low or dead center CB the shot does not change what so ever from shaft to shaft.

LD or anysuch thing has no affect on such shots. I completely agree with Neil that your aiming at center but are hitting the ball with english.

-Grey Ghost

Appreciate the input, and I tend to agree with the fact that vertical axis shots do not change from shaft to shaft.

So let's say I'm hitting the ball with english with the 314-2 when I think I'm hitting dead vertical axis. What is your explanation then this not happening with solid shafts? I just aim and shoot, and the ball goes where I want, with a lot more consistency than the 314-2. And this is not just one shaft. Same with the 3 other solid shafts (2 Runde era stitched ring, and 1 standard Schon shaft) that I have in my case. When I had my Darrin Hill cue, same thing, it was a lot easier to aim and shoot and TRUST the shot with the solid shafts :shrug:

I do have a very slight taper roll on the 314-2 though. I never thought about this before, but could this have any effect on my cueing?
 
Appreciate the input, and I tend to agree with the fact that vertical axis shots do not change from shaft to shaft.

So let's say I'm hitting the ball with english with the 314-2 when I think I'm hitting dead vertical axis. What is your explanation then this not happening with solid shafts? I just aim and shoot, and the ball goes where I want, with a lot more consistency than the 314-2. And this is not just one shaft. Same with the 3 other solid shafts (2 Runde era stitched ring, and 1 standard Schon shaft) that I have in my case. When I had my Darrin Hill cue, same thing, it was a lot easier to aim and shoot and TRUST the shot with the solid shafts :shrug:

I do have a very slight taper roll on the 314-2 though. I never thought about this before, but could this have any effect on my cueing?

LD shafts purpose is to lower the squirt of the CB when its struck to the left or right of the vertical axis.

Meaning that if you put one tip english with a normal shaft and then an LD the path of the CB will be more straight with the LD......generally.

Most LD shafts on the market are smaller diameter than the typical 13mm

In general a smaller tip produces more spin/rotation per given tip offset than a larger one.

And there is the gaff.

The LD will be more accurate if the CB is hit accurately as it will help the CB keep a more linear path. BUT this does not translate to "if i miss hit the CB the margin of error with an LD shaft is less than a normal shaft" (IN SOME CASES YES, BUT ITS NOT A CONSTANT)

With a miss hit on the CB the smaller diameter shaft will result in a greater margin of missed shot.

Y?

Gearing Action is the reason. Tho limited, the more english on the cueball the more of it is transferred to the OB. This action on the OBJECT BALL is called THROW.

All this taken into account......

could be three issues imop

1-alignment issue which is causing you to stroke off an incorrect shot line.

2-SHOT SPEED****

3-Failure to strike the intended spot on CB

***Tho you said the intended is No ENGLISH, W/Top Spin if you are misstriking the CB the swerve of the CB will also change with the speed of the shot. If this is the case then #3 would be the problem to fix.

Know this tho that some play a shot with english and try and compensate for swerve by varying the purposed english (this of course can be done) or by shifting their aim.......Remember you can adjust this condition via SPEED as well, and that the speed for a sought after quantity of swerve and the CB coming back to its intended path are just a result of the timing. There are many shots that a particular english will have its own signature speed of stroke delivery.

The differences b/t LD and normal can be as great as b/t a Mustang 5.0 and a Real high end race car. The mustang has some play and a rookie or a seasoned vet can drive the crap out of it. But the high end car a vet can use all its bells and wistles as its in his range, the rookie can drive it sure but hes going to have some time learning how to control the power to weight ratios and would lose control in curves at higher speeds because they hadn't learned that steering touch, brake and throttle just yet.

most of all our shafts are sporty but there's definately a difference in the touring model and the formula 1's productivity and controllability.

in this race tho no car is really better than the other tho.....its all up to the driver....its just up to the driver to use what he feels most comfortable in.

So to end this:

1-Make sure your striking the CB properly

2-Make sure your in alignment with the shot

3-Use whatever cue makes you smile and you feel comfortable with.

These are simple yet profound rules that govern us all as players.

Hope that helps.
-Greyghost
 
As for a taper roll causing it NO NOT REALLY


If you got a crook in a shaft.....even a bad crook

and you have good mechanics and put the tip to the CB when you set up.....when you pull back and then stroke forward again, EVEN WITH A TAPER ROLL IN THE SHAFT THE TIP IS GOING TO GO RIGHT BACK TO THE SAME SPOT! (now if it was really really crooked and you spin your cue like effren then its a possibility as it would then orientate the tip differient from the set up)

but a normal run of the mill taper roll........NAHHHHHH its not an issue

-Greyghost
 
I haven't even used my 314-2 since I got my Meucci Black Dot. My long shots are a higher percentage positive since the change. Long cut shots are way easier for me now. :)
 
I thought ld shafts flex less? Meucci's are the most flexible shaft i know of and are highest (having most squirt) on the deflection chart. So wouldnt the 314 be one of the least flexible shafts?
 
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