Smoking at tournament matches

[Bigtruck]

If your opponent is talking while it's your turn - wait till he's done.
If your opponent blows smoke at the table while you are up - wait til it clears
If your opponent needs to have a loud conversation when it's your turn - wait till he's done.

It's ALL about control. You must maintain control when it's your turn. ANYTHING done to take away from your control must be dealt with. Waiting them out patiently and quietly always works. NEVER get upset or show any irritability. That will give up control.

Ray
(easy to do here)

 

[sfleinen]

So, the bathroom breaks for the drinkers are still O.K., right?? Just can't have a smoke break??

edit- just for the record, I am against taking a smoke break during a match. Matches are not that long. But, you should be allowed a smoke break between matches.

Between matches, yes. During a match? No, absolutely not.

A good example of this was at the recent Joss tournament stop at Fast Eddie's in New Milford, CT. (It's a well-known rule that in Mike Zuglan's Joss tour -- no matter *where* i.e. what state -- the tour stop is, that once a match is underway, smoke breaks are not allowed. Restroom breaks are, but are limited to one per match, unless there's special circumstances; e.g. if the player informs the TD beforehand, to notify him that he/she is ill and needs frequent restroom breaks.) There was a match between Scott Ireland (placed fifth in the tournament) and Nick Connor (placed third in the tournament). Nick Connor had properly informed Mike Z. at the start of tournament proceedings that he was not feeling well (a bit of food poisoning, perhaps), and needed frequent restroom breaks throughout, which he was granted. Nick and Scott lag for the break, Nick wins the lag. Nick informs Scott that he needs to go to the restroom and does so. Scott's waiting for Nick to return, and apparently, Nick is not completing his restroom break fast enough for Scott. So Scott mutters a loud expletive, and makes his way to the front door of the establishment to "take a smoke break." Mike Zuglan runs after him and intercepts him right at the front door, ordering him back to the table. Scott is having none of this, and insists on taking a smoke break. They get into it, chest-to-chest, face-to-face, with Mike demanding that Scott get back to the table, or else he (Mike) will forfeit Scott. Scott then returns to the table, loudly spewing expletives. In some strange twist of justice, Nick returns from the restroom not feeling well, but goes on to win that match in a blow-out.

So, are Mike Zuglan's rules wrong for disallowing smoke breaks during a match?
-Sean

 

[JoeyA]

no one must deal with the smoke. Just stay home. No i do not smoke.

I am trying to understand that perspective but just can't, no matter how hard I try.

This makes about as much sense as my opponent having to put up with me swatting the air with my hand to move the smoke from my presence while he is at the table.

 

[JoeyA]

Between matches, yes. During a match? No, absolutely not.

A good example of this is at the recent Joss tournament stop at Fast Eddie's in New Milford, CT. (It's a well-known rule that in Mike Zuglan's Joss tour -- no matter *where* (i.e. what state -- the tour stop is, that once a match is underway, smoke breaks are not allowed. Restroom breaks are, but are limited to one per match, unless there's special circumstances; e.g. if the player informs the TD beforehand, to notify him that he/she is ill and needs frequent restroom breaks.) There was a match between Scott Ireland (placed fifth in the tournament) and Nick Connor (placed third in the tournament). Nick Connor had properly informed Mike Z. at the start of tournament proceedings that he was not feeling well (a bit of food poisoning, perhaps), and needed frequent restroom breaks throughout, which he was granted. Nick and Scott lag for the break, Nick wins the lag. Nick informs Scott that he needs to go to the restroom and does so. Scott's waiting for Nick to return, and apparently, Nick is not completing his restroom break fast enough for Scott. So Scott mutters a loud expletive, and makes his way to the front door of the establishment to "take a smoke break." Mike Zuglan runs after him and intercepts him right at the front door, ordering him back to the table. Scott is having none of this, and insists on taking a smoke break. They get into it, chest-to-chest, face-to-face, with Mike demanding that Scott get back to the table, or else he (Mike) will forfeit Scott. Scott then returns to the table, loudly spewing expletives. In some strange twist of justice, Nick returns from the restroom not feeling well, but goes on to win that match in a blow-out.

So, are Mike Zuglan's rules wrong for disallowing smoke breaks during a match?
-Sean

Hurray for Mike Zuglan taking a stand on smoking while a match is underway.

I don't have a problem with smokers smoking in between matches where smoking is allowed. Smoking during matches is disrupting and is an irritant for some of the competitors.

Thanks for sharing this rule of the Joss Tour. It makes me want to attend their events.

 

[12squared]

No Dave.

When my opponent's cigarette is sitting in the ashtray smoldering, wafting through the air, I will occasionally just swipe the air in an attempt to remove the smoke from my presence. If it coincidentally or accidentally happens when my opponent is at the table, it will be unfortunate but what the hell.

And if I carry one of those little fans, I guess I can take a "battery break" and go to Walmart to buy some more batteries when the ones in the fan wear down.

I think most of the people have spoken and it appears that FAR MORE people think that smoking during a match should not be allowed.

I know you well enough to know that even you think that anything can be used to distract an opponent. Even you have to agree that when smoke gets in your eyes that it irritates your eyes. Otherwise, from now on when we play pool, you have to keep a lit cigarette in your mouth at all times while shooting.

Joey, just trying to help w/suggestions until smoking is banned from tournaments.

Here's a few little versions of a topical song to lighten the mood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57tK6aQS_H0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NVoDfjz-Cg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnopVYzg0-w

Pick your favorite :thumbup:

Neil, take a valium .

All players should be courteous while their opponents are at the table, whether it's drinking or smoking...period. This from a non-drinker & non-smoker.

 

[Matt90]

Good suggestion

If your opponent is talking while it's your turn - wait till he's done.
If your opponent blows smoke at the table while you are up - wait til it clears
If your opponent needs to have a loud conversation when it's your turn - wait till he's done.

It's ALL about control. You must maintain control when it's your turn. ANYTHING done to take away from your control must be dealt with. Waiting them out patiently and quietly always works. NEVER get upset or show any irritability. That will give up control.

Ray
(easy to do here)

I agree with Ray here, Also Joey you could just take one of these to the tournament .Fat girls usually have em out by the pool but I bet they work good on a little smoke too.

 

[OneIron]

If your opponent is talking while it's your turn - wait till he's done.
If your opponent blows smoke at the table while you are up - wait til it clears
If your opponent needs to have a loud conversation when it's your turn - wait till he's done.

It's ALL about control. You must maintain control when it's your turn. ANYTHING done to take away from your control must be dealt with. Waiting them out patiently and quietly always works. NEVER get upset or show any irritability. That will give up control.

Ray
(easy to do here)

That is excellent advice. When my opponent is sharking me, I simply sit down until he backs off. Having said that, I hate playing pool in smoke filled rooms.

 

[smokey]

hey JoeyA...

Smokey, :smile:
Yes, we have men & WOMEN sacrificing their lives for our country's interests, not that I agree with how they go about it and I am grateful for all of the men and women who have served our country but that isn't what this thread is about.

We are talking about tournament play not some social game of pool. In a social game of pool, I may choose to stand in the smoke of my acquaintances or not.

Your friend,
JoeyA

it took me so long to write the last post, i missed many others posts including yours above.

let me say this, and this is just MY opinion...

in a league situation, i have never encountered any objection of smokers. and i don't mind at all if others smoke in my home too. i have ashtrays for them, inside and outside.

but i have never been in a tournament, so i will trust your judgement.

i am sri if i was ranting...

all the best,
smokey

 

[JoeyA]

If your opponent is talking while it's your turn - wait till he's done.
If your opponent blows smoke at the table while you are up - wait til it clears
If your opponent needs to have a loud conversation when it's your turn - wait till he's done.

It's ALL about control. You must maintain control when it's your turn. ANYTHING done to take away from your control must be dealt with. Waiting them out patiently and quietly always works. NEVER get upset or show any irritability. That will give up control.

Ray
(easy to do here)

If everyone did what you say, a two day tournament would take four days and a squad of police officers to break up the ensuing fights.

Ray, the rules of tournament play dictate differently than what you articulate. Sorry.

I'm going to get a pair of those thunder sticks that they use at basketball games and smack them together to move the smoke around so it doesn't irritate my eyes and other senses. They are light enough that I can swing them all match long. I bet I won't have to swing them very long but what the hell, my opponent can just wait for me to stop swinging and smacking them together. If I happen to distract them when they are down on a shot, I will apologize after I win the match.

 

[smokey]

12^2...

Joey, just trying to help w/suggestions until smoking is banned from tournaments.

Here's a few little versions of a topical song to lighten the mood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57tK6aQS_H0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NVoDfjz-Cg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnopVYzg0-w

Pick your favorite :thumbup:

Neil, take a valium .

All players should be courteous while their opponents are at the table, whether it's drinking or smoking...period. This from a non-drinker & non-smoker.

Clyde McPhatter...

oh....... boy.........

what memories!

so sweet. thanks for the tune.

all the best,
smokey

 

[ShootingArts]

wasn't going to post again in the smoking threads

JoeyA & ShootingArts, neither of you are young punks. you are my hero's. what is with this nonsense?

we got guys in action living and dying for our "rights" that we all love & cherish.

please don't make their sacrifices needless. for little squabbles over a little smoke in a game of pool?

maybe i should just give up trying and be politically correct.

i will not...

your friend,
smokey

Smokey,

I wasn't going to post again in a smoking thread, I'm working on learning to have my say and let it ride. However I noticed your post and want to respond to a reasonable post from a friend. I don't think that smoking should be regulated. I actually think it is a shame that it and so many other things have to be regulated. We have libraries full of law books trying to regulate common sense and courtesy.

I really think that common sense and courtesy should be traits learned at an early age. I hold doors for other people, particularly ladies. I say sir and ma'am, please and thank you. I also don't use gutter language in front of ladies. While on the subject, I assume all females of any age are ladies until they demonstrate otherwise.

Smoking is something that impacts everyone around you, no choice on their part just like someone being loud and obnoxious. There was a time when a person asked, "mind if I smoke?" and if someone did, they didn't smoke. Now it has became all about me me me and the hell with anyone else's rights. Years ago I was a far more tolerant person. However every group seems to think that being equal isn't good enough, they have to be equal but with special privileges. Once I realized that being equal wasn't what these groups really wanted, they wanted privileged status, my tolerance went out the window.

The late sixties and early seventies seemed like a wonderful time. We really seemed to be making huge strides as a human society. I see now that it was a momentary blip on the screen and the all out struggle for power over other people never ends. Smoking where it negatively impacts other people is just another way of asserting the smoker's power. They are being rude, why should they expect others to behave differently?

Common sense and courtesy are dead or at least on their last legs. A million pages of law won't change that. My personal opinion is that we should burn the law libraries, post the Constitution, and start over from there but that is a topic for another thread.

Hu

 

[Donny Lutz]

Cancer...

You've survived lung cancer for 7 years? Congrats, that is awesome man, good for you!

Actually I had another form of cancer. Cigarette smoking and second-hand smoke contribute to many kinds of cancer. This is based on thousands of epidemiological studies world-wide.
I don't pay much attention to non-human animal studies. The value of such studies is a separate topic that cannot be addressed adequately here.

The "fact" that 48 hours of second'-hand smoke is equal to one cigarette is based on no study or scientific evidence. Obviously, in some environments second-hand smoke is far more concentrated than others.

Cigarette smokers tend to be folks who are in denial about their health. They are very defensive about their chosen health risks. It's their opinion that their lung problems are not due to their smoking. It's certainly their right to have an opinion. I've never died in a car accident when I drove over 100 mph. So in my opinion driving at 100 mph is quite safe...

I've had to largely give up playing pool in Florida because of the smokey venues. I do my teaching only in the afternoon before the rooms get smokey. I miss the competition. I also miss my friends who died of lung and other cancers.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[Jodacus]

Smokey,

I wasn't going to post again in a smoking thread, I'm working on learning to have my say and let it ride. However I noticed your post and want to respond to a reasonable post from a friend. I don't think that smoking should be regulated. I actually think it is a shame that it and so many other things have to be regulated. We have libraries full of law books trying to regulate common sense and courtesy.

I really think that common sense and courtesy should be traits learned at an early age. I hold doors for other people, particularly ladies. I say sir and ma'am, please and thank you. I also don't use gutter language in front of ladies. While on the subject, I assume all females of any age are ladies until they demonstrate otherwise.

Smoking is something that impacts everyone around you, no choice on their part just like someone being loud and obnoxious. There was a time when a person asked, "mind if I smoke?" and if someone did, they didn't smoke. Now it has became all about me me me and the hell with anyone else's rights. Years ago I was a far more tolerant person. However every group seems to think that being equal isn't good enough, they have to be equal but with special privileges. Once I realized that being equal wasn't what these groups really wanted, they wanted privileged status, my tolerance went out the window.

The late sixties and early seventies seemed like a wonderful time. We really seemed to be making huge strides as a human society. I see now that it was a momentary blip on the screen and the all out struggle for power over other people never ends. Smoking where it negatively impacts other people is just another way of asserting the smoker's power. They are being rude, why should they expect others to behave differently?

Common sense and courtesy are dead or at least on their last legs. A million pages of law won't change that. My personal opinion is that we should burn the law libraries, post the Constitution, and start over from there but that is a topic for another thread.

Hu

Amen, brother.
I too practice every common courtesy I can to anyone I can. That only changes when they prove undeserving of the consideration.

 

[JoeyA]

So, the bathroom breaks for the drinkers are still O.K., right?? Just can't have a smoke break??

edit- just for the record, I am against taking a smoke break during a match. Matches are not that long. But, you should be allowed a smoke break between matches.

EVERYONE DRINKS!

NO ONE should be allowed to smoke at the tournament match.

 

[JoeyA]

Some guys can't concentrate if the jukebox is playing too loud. Others have problems in big crowds that make the tables play wet. Some complain about cigarette smoke, alcohol, noise, etc.

Although I agree smoking is a nasty habit I wouldn't go ballistic over it. You, JA, are starting to remind me of Earl's complaining about anything and everything.

Speaking of Earl and his rants: I once watched Earl playing a VERY well known pool player. It was at the DCC and Earl was at the table playing banks in the tournament event. I was standing just behind another person who was standing about 6 feet from the table. Just as Earl was about to shoot a critical bank shot, the person in front of me chose to take a FAST SWIG of their soft drink bottle and sharked Earl big time. I thought it was coincidental but when I saw the guy in front of me give his friend who was playing in the match a knowing smirk and the other player acknowledged the knowing smirk, I knew then that some of Earl's rants are spot on.

I don't care how nasty of a habit smoking is. I really don't. I don't care that smoking is hazardous to your health or mine. THIS IS REALLY JUST ABOUT SMOKING BEING A DISTRACTION & AN IRRITANT DURING TOURNAMENT PLAY AND NOTHING MORE.

I am only talking about tournament play and I don't believe an opponent should be allowed to smoke at the tournament play. The only reason that I am against a player taking a smoke break (away from the tournment table) is that it can extend the tournament and make the tournament unattractive for many who already complain that tournaments are too long.

 

[sfleinen]

To me, that is simply a case of following the letter of the law, and not using any common sense. There is no reason at all that the second guy shouldn't be allowed to have a smoke while the first guy is in the bathroom. But, as soon as the guy is done in the bathroom, the smoker has to be done also.

Common sense, Neil? So you think the letter of the law isn't itself a form of common sense? So let's explore this one -- let's dispense with the letter of the law. Now we allow "conditional" smoke breaks -- i.e. that gray area when/if one person of a match is not "immediately" available (e.g. in the restroom, or else went out to his car to retrieve something), then that "grants" the opponent a "conditional" smoke break. Who enforces this now? So now, instead of an easily-enforced black-and-white "no smoke breaks at all when a match is underway," we now have issues of people constantly bugging the TD reporting issues of a missing opponent, because he/she is out "on an opportunistic 'conditional' smoke break" that the TD now has to go fetch. Yeah, that's common sense.

This is the problem with the "violating my civil rights" group concerning bans on smoking -- the lack of common sense. And in this case, the point being glossed over is if you remove even one bag of sand from the levee, the levee breaks.

-Sean

 

[JoeyA]

To me, that is simply a case of following the letter of the law, and not using any common sense. There is no reason at all that the second guy shouldn't be allowed to have a smoke while the first guy is in the bathroom. But, as soon as the guy is done in the bathroom, the smoker has to be done also.

Smoke from cigarettes is the main eye irritant in a pool room. Again, I'm just talking about smoking at a tournament match. If a person wanted to smoke during their break to the bathroom or elsewhere (away from the tournament match), I wouldn't have a problem just as long as it didn't delay the game unncessarily.

 

[mnShooter]

I would say move to a different state or write your state representatives and let them know how you feel.

Prolonged exposure to second hand smoke can cause some bad things. One of our family friend's kids has bronchitis because of his parents smoking in the house. Now he has a smokers cough and doesn't even smoke.

I'm a smoker but I don't smoke in my house and I don't smoke in my car. Smoking is banned indoors in MN so I can't smoke at bars or pool halls either. I don't usually go out to smoke during a match. You should have to smoke between matches.

I'm really getting sick of these righteous people that don't smoke. Smoking is legal. It probably shouldn't be, but until it's illegal I have the right to smoke outside. Get over it and stop whining.

Also I shouldn't have to pay for your roads or kids hospital bill with my smoking habit. I'm OK with paying for cancer or heart disease research and treatment with the tobacco tax but it shouldn't be used for other things.

 

[mnShooter]

One other thing, tell your room to get some smoke eaters. They should help quite a bit. They are filters that sit in the ceiling. I'm sure they could get some dirt cheap from the pool rooms in non-smoking states.

Shooters in Burnsville, MN I heard spent 10's of thousands of dollars getting new ones right before the smoking ban passed.