Chinese Documentary about pool players

[Aten]

Tim:

The inclusion of the "not sure why" is, as we both know, escapist. You want to make a statement, but then you want to back away from it, and absolve yourself of all responsibility for saying it. It's like you're trying to give yourself a free ticket to say this.

As for me getting my panties in a twist, not really. Am I challenging you on your escapist retreat from what you said, trying to use the "not sure why" as an excuse? You bet. Am I mad at you? Nah, no way. I've come to expect these kinds of things from you. Afterall, you are TheContrarian, are you not?

In all seriousness, you could've said what you wanted to say a lot less "stereotypish" (if that's a word?). For example:

"I'm not sure why, and I know it probably goes against the rest of the world's experience as expressed here on these forums, but the Chinese/Taiwanese players that I play a lot with, can't play well, much less qualify as world-beaters."

Doesn't that read a LOT less "stereotypish" than your original statement? You are more than welcome to express your views. But when you come across with sweeping broadside statements like you do, you CAN'T expect not to be challenged on them.

-Sean

Sean, why feed the troll?

 

[sfleinen]

Sean, why feed the troll?

Yup, you're right. Neil said the same thing to me yesterday, I recognized he was right, and I *still* did it again. I can be hardheaded at times...

Thanks for the reminder,
-Sean

 

[TheThaiger]

Tim:

The inclusion of the "not sure why" is, as we both know, escapist. You want to make a statement, but then you want to back away from it, and absolve yourself of all responsibility for saying it. It's like you're trying to give yourself a free ticket to say this.

As for me getting my panties in a twist, not really. Am I challenging you on your escapist retreat from what you said, trying to use the "not sure why" as an excuse? You bet. Am I mad at you? Nah, no way. I've come to expect these kinds of things from you. Afterall, you are TheContrarian, are you not?

In all seriousness, you could've said what you wanted to say a lot less "stereotypish" (if that's a word?). For example:

"I'm not sure why, and I know it probably goes against the rest of the world's experience as expressed here on these forums, but the Chinese/Taiwanese players that I play a lot with, can't play well, much less qualify as world-beaters."

Doesn't that read a LOT less "stereotypish" than your original statement? You are more than welcome to express your views. But when you come across with sweeping broadside statements like you do, you CAN'T expect not to be challenged on them.

-Sean

I still don't see what's wrong with "I play with a lot of Chinese/Taiwanese players and they're all, to a man, hopeless. Not sure why. Either way, there's gold in china for coaches."

As for the rest of it, I can hear you wriggling from here, Sean. What I said is perfectly fine and completely true. If you come here and have a different experience, you are perfectly free to correct me. Until then, it's possibly a tad arrogant to rearrange someone else's words...

 

[sfleinen]

I still don't see what's wrong with "I play with a lot of Chinese/Taiwanese players and they're all, to a man, hopeless. Not sure why. Either way, there's gold in china for coaches."

As for the rest of it, I can hear you wriggling from here, Sean. What I said is perfectly fine and completely true. If you come here and have a different experience, you are perfectly free to correct me. Until then, it's possibly a tad arrogant to rearrange someone else's words...

Absolutely hilarious... because you *still* aren't getting the point, even after asking me what's wrong with what you said, and I tried to demonstrate an alternative to you, to help you understand why you were getting the reaction you were (and not from just me).

But no matter, you can have at it, Tim.

-Sean <-- still chuckling!

 

[TheThaiger]

Absolutely hilarious... because you *still* aren't getting the point, even after asking me what's wrong with what you said, and I tried to demonstrate an alternative to you, to help you understand why you were getting the reaction you were (and not from just me).

But no matter, you can have at it, Tim.

-Sean <-- still chuckling!

I know PRECISELY why I'm getting the reaction I am. I very much doubt anyone else around here would get flamed for something so innocuous.

I thought you cared about stereotyping, Sean. Clearly not.

 

[Quesports]

I don't think there are 2000 but there are a lot although some close and others open all the time.

I play in what is supposed to be the largest room in Shanghai. It is on the top floor of a large shopping mall. I think there are almost 60 tables on two floors, mostly 9 foot pool tables but a few snooker tables also. Go in on the weekend and you will wait to get a table.

One of the owners is from Taiwan and an old friend. I'll see him tonight probably and ask if he has a better idea of how many rooms there are.

WOW I had heard there are lots of pool halls, that's amazing. There was a thread the other day asking for a pool hall in Boston and apparently there aren't any. I am in the Chicago burbs and there might by 20 rooms if you include all of Chicago. The decline of pool halls here is astonishing. Might be why so many folks have put tables into there homes in the last 5 years or so.
With so much pool there has to be lots of very strong players and lots of action, most of my Asian friends love to gamble..

 

[sfleinen]

I know PRECISELY why I'm getting the reaction I am. I very much doubt anyone else around here would get flamed for something so innocuous.

I thought you cared about stereotyping, Sean. Clearly not.

Funny that you should try to bounce it back onto me for stereotyping (i.e. you being a contrarian, presumably). But, this issue ends with you, Tim, no matter how much you try to deflect.

But, let's explore it anyway. So, if the issue that folks are taking issue with you about is "not" about stereotyping, then what exactly *IS* the issue, Tim?

I gotta hear this one...

-Sean <-- hardheaded and a glutton for punishment

 

[Aten]

I speak with a lot of British fishes and they're all, to a man, hopeless. Not sure why. Either way, there's gold in Britain for fishermen.

 

[sfleinen]

"I speak with a lot of British players that once played snooker, but can't anymore, so they play pool now. And they are all, to a man, hopeless. Not sure why. Either way, there's laughter fodder in Britain for any non-Brit that can play."

 

[TheThaiger]

Funny that you should try to bounce it back onto me for stereotyping (i.e. you being a contrarian, presumably). But, this issue ends with you, Tim, no matter how much you try to deflect.

But, let's explore it anyway. So, if the issue that folks are taking issue with you about is "not" about stereotyping, then what exactly *IS* the issue, Tim?

I gotta hear this one...

-Sean <-- hardheaded and a glutton for punishment

I don't know what the issue is, Sean. You seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill.

Is it the rutting season over there or something?

 

[TheThaiger]

I speak with a lot of British fishes and they're all, to a man, hopeless. Not sure why. Either way, there's gold in Britain for fishermen.

I'm not sure whether that's racist, fishist, manist or goldist.

Either way, it's extraordinarily unfunny.

 

[JB Cases]

WOW I had heard there are lots of pool halls, that's amazing. There was a thread the other day asking for a pool hall in Boston and apparently there aren't any. I am in the Chicago burbs and there might by 20 rooms if you include all of Chicago. The decline of pool halls here is astonishing. Might be why so many folks have put tables into there homes in the last 5 years or so.
With so much pool there has to be lots of very strong players and lots of action, most of my Asian friends love to gamble..

Here in Xiamen within 10-15 minutes walking distance from my place there are four pool rooms with about 130 tables total. Mostly American pool, some 6x12 snooker. One of the pool rooms had the entire top floor of a small mall with one side all snooker and the other side snooker and pool. They have since closed the snooker side.

Within a 20 minute driving radius there are probably a 1000 tables in reach. And for me just about all the action at any amount of money I care to play for. The good thing is that over here you can find good solid players willing to play all night for $15 a set races to nine and you have all you can handle as they can run out.

And you could be in $1500 action with just a few phone calls.

 

[JMuck]

It seems that we have a number of members familiar with China and Taiwan.Can anyone tell me if there is a forum like AZ over there that can be translated with Google toolbar?

What are the table time costs?

For that matter what is an average salary and any other tidbits anyone may care to add?

Thanks in advance.

 

[JB Cases]

It seems that we have a number of members familiar with China and Taiwan.Can anyone tell me if there is a forum like AZ over there that can be translated with Google toolbar?

What are the table time costs?

For that matter what is an average salary and any other tidbits anyone may care to add?

Thanks in advance.

Table time is anywhere from $1.50 - $10 per hour. Wages are about $200 a month and rising. Dinner for 16 people at a decent restaurant is $100. Dinner at a normal place would be about $50

Keep in mind that you can spend as much on whatever you want as you want. The dining table in my apartment originally sold for $5000.

There are forums but you aren't going to get far with google translator.



www.jbcases.com

 

[Jive]

I know PRECISELY why I'm getting the reaction I am. I very much doubt anyone else around here would get flamed for something so innocuous.

I thought you cared about stereotyping, Sean. Clearly not.

From how i see it, the statement you made about chinese pool players did sound arrogant and like you know it all.
Perhaps you were only referring to the players you played with that sucked, but you sure sounded like you were stereotyping. The send off was the part that you mentioned that there's gold in China for coaches. From my understanding that meant to say chinese player in general sucked, that's why coaches would do good here in China? By that your reference immediately expanded from the pool of crap player that you've played with to the entire pool community of China. How does that sound innocent?

I'm not picking on you or am against you, i have no beef with you and prior to this we've never exchanged messages. I'm merely trying to get you to understand why your statement was not appropriate or true, i used the word appropriate since i can't tell you what's right or wrong to type cos that's your free will.

 

[KCRack'em]

From how i see it, the statement you made about chinese pool players did sound arrogant and like you know it all.
Perhaps you were only referring to the players you played with that sucked, but you sure sounded like you were stereotyping. The send off was the part that you mentioned that there's gold in China for coaches. From my understanding that meant to say chinese player in general sucked, that's why coaches would do good here in China? By that your reference immediately expanded from the pool of crap player that you've played with to the entire pool community of Chinese. How does that sound innocent?

I'm not picking on your or against you, i have no beef with you and prior to this we've never exchanged messages. I'm merely trying to get you to understand why your statement was not appropriate or true, i used the word appropriate since i can't tell you what's right or wrong to type cos that's your free will.

Rep to you, Jive!

 

[Jive]

Table time is anywhere from $1.50 - $10 per hour. Wages are about $200 a month and rising. Dinner for 16 people at a decent restaurant is $100. Dinner at a normal place would be about $50

Keep in mind that you can spend as much on whatever you want as you want. The dining table in my apartment originally sold for $5000.

There are forums but you aren't going to get far with google translator.



www.jbcases.com

John is pretty much spot on in terms of table rate since there's the uber fancy one and the regular ones. Jacky Chan(yeah the move star) invested in a crazy high end pool hall in Beijing(i think) and spent like millions renovating and setting it up. I hear it's more like a club house now.

Salary though is subjective...it's tough finding workers at $200, cos that's the minimum wage and it's tough finding labors at that price. For regular unskilled workers the minimum these days is $280 paid from company, as that would include all the insurance and other misc contributions. For skilled workers like seamstress, carpenters or welders the average wage is around $400 and can go way north depending on factory and commission system.

As for food, you can have a bowl of noodle and drinks for as little as $0.50 in rural cities to about $1.20 in larger cities, but this is the cheapest you can find and it's from street side hawkers, not air-condition whatsoever.
For expensive, then the sky is the limit in China...in Cities like Shanghai you can find expensive food much easier than in New York...
I go to a club in Shanghai called M2 all time when i'm in Shanghai, whenever i'm there and people there order champagnes by the dozen..i was there with a bunch of friends last year and we thought we drank and ordered alot of drinks...next table a guy comes in alone, sits down and next i see 10 buckets of champagne..that's 5 Bottles per Bucket, not your typical 1 btl per bucket. 50btls of champers...he didn't order no Krug but it's still a Moet Rose and the club sells it for about $190 per btl...and having been there a couple of times it's a pretty common sighting...

Note that the above wage and expenditure reference Excludes Taiwan and Hong Kong.

 

[Jive]

Pictures of a pool hall i shoot in, took them a while back with my phone so excuse the picture quality..
The pictures below only show about one quarter of the pool hall, another's another full row of Mini Snooker table and a row of Snooker table..
The bar serves anything from Lafite to Chivas to Budweiser, and my favourite fresh grounded coffee.
Pool rates are from $7.50 - $11/hr for non-members and i pay $4/hr as a member.
As member a cup of fresh ground coffee cost me slightly less than $3, but non members pay $8.
This pool hall would be considered fairly high end in my part of China in terms of decor and price of drinks. But the table rates are fair and in-line with most middle level to mid high level pool halls.

 

[Jive]

Manage to find some pictures of a gambling session that took place last summer.

This is Mini-Snooker, or as they call it here, Chinese Style Black 8.

If i remember correctly this gambling session went on for 2 days, Day 1 was for $950 per game, race to 40 games or 4hours, whichever comes first. Whoever loses 10games can call quit even if 40games hasn't been reached.
Day 2 was the same rule just that money went up to $1100 or $1200, can't remember correctly.
This was a handicapped match, the stronger player was giving 1 ball at break and last ball before the black eight.
They break and jump with pool cues but both these players play with Snooker Cues.

 

[JMuck]

Thanks JB and Jive!