PSR and Alignment

Mikjary/Mikie

the parallel contact point method i think is the same like Joe Tuckers Aiming System "Aiming by Numbers" (from how i understood it :) ).
It a very clear contact to contact system. And easy to understand.
I m often surprised, that some (even advanced) good players even do not know this system.

Edit: this is no offense against anybody guys- just interesting, that some old expirienced players even know this-perhaps without a name, or under another description.

lg from overseas
Ingo
 
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Mitchxout said:
Isn't this similar to fractional aiming? I've practiced with both and they both work equally well. However, when playing I'm strictly going by feel. If I miss it was a bad stroke, not bad aim.
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I think contact-point-to-contact-point or parallel-lines system is very different from fractional-ball aiming. With fractional-ball aiming, there is a limited number of aiming lines. With the traditional contact-point-to-contact-point or parallel-lines aiming, there are an infinite number of aiming lines corresponding to an infinite number of cut angles (as is the case in actual pool for center-pocket aiming).

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
I think contact-point-to-contact-point or parallel-lines system is very different from fractional-ball aiming. With fractional-ball aiming, there is a limited number of aiming lines. With the traditional contact-point-to-contact-point or parallel-lines aiming, there are an infinite number of aiming lines corresponding to an infinite number of cut angles (as is the case in actual pool for center-pocket aiming).

Regards,
Dave
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I like infinite number of cut angles, but how do you effect CP to CP? Do you start at center of the CB and gaze at the line of aim from the CP to CP - I can do that, but is my cue aiming in congress with that line? How do I adjust my stance and bridge to accomodate that line?

If I want to hit the center of the CB, I notice that my eye/eyes (dominant?) are off to the side of the center of the CB and cannot accurately confirm that I am on the correct aim line to effect the CP to CP hit.

I could stick aim the CP to CP, but my stick would not be lined up with the center of the CB and in order to get it there, I must parallel shift my stick and stance over to the center of the CB. This requires that I shift my bridge hand, grasp on the butt and my body to effect the parallel shift.

Do you have an accurate way to do this or does it take great imagination? Perhaps I can practice moving my bridge one inch to the center of the CB and moving my grasp and stance a corresponding one inch if that is the distance required to effect the CP to CP hit?

That's the rub.:confused:
 
LAMas said:
I like infinite number of cut angles, but how do you effect CP to CP? ,,,

Do you have an accurate way to do this or does it take great imagination?,,,
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LAMas, here are some comments on this subject from Patrick Johnson, excerpted from the "sighting" section of Dr. Dave's site:

"The things you want to align for aiming (CB/OB contact points, CB/OB fractions, etc.) are rarely on the same line as your stick - they're separate lines. So when you center your vision directly over one line, the other line is necessarily off to the side a little and therefore harder to line up precisely - i.e., if you center your vision over your stick it's more difficult to be sure you're lining the contact points up precisely and if you center your vision over the contact points line it's more difficult to be sure you're lining your stick up precisely. It's a tradeoff.

So I don't think it's a given that one way is always better than the other. I'm not even sure it's necessary for a player to do it the same way every time - maybe some shots lend themselves better to one and some to the other. For instance, thin cuts and shots with lots of sidespin might lend themselves more to sighting along the contact points line, while thicker shots with less spin might be best sighted along the stick.

What's best might also change with the player - some might see the alignment better by favoring the stick while others might favor the contact points line, like how different players have different centers of vision because of eye dominance."​
 
LAMas said:
I like infinite number of cut angles, but how do you effect CP to CP? Do you start at center of the CB and gaze at the line of aim from the CP to CP - I can do that, but is my cue aiming in congress with that line? How do I adjust my stance and bridge to accomodate that line?

If I want to hit the center of the CB, I notice that my eye/eyes (dominant?) are off to the side of the center of the CB and cannot accurately confirm that I am on the correct aim line to effect the CP to CP hit.

I could stick aim the CP to CP, but my stick would not be lined up with the center of the CB and in order to get it there, I must parallel shift my stick and stance over to the center of the CB. This requires that I shift my bridge hand, grasp on the butt and my body to effect the parallel shift.

Do you have an accurate way to do this or does it take great imagination? Perhaps I can practice moving my bridge one inch to the center of the CB and moving my grasp and stance a corresponding one inch if that is the distance required to effect the CP to CP hit?

That's the rub.:confused:
Click to expand...

No wonder I miss balls! This game is tough! :grin-square:

If it makes any difference, the diagram I posted was an alignment system. Not an aiming system. I use it to line up and adjust for the infinite angles. I swing down into the shot and shoot. I think this is the goal of all aiming systems...to become automatic and natural with a correct alignment.

Imagination is optimal.:grin-square:

Best,
Mike
 
LAMas said:
I like infinite number of cut angles, but how do you effect CP to CP? Do you start at center of the CB and gaze at the line of aim from the CP to CP - I can do that, but is my cue aiming in congress with that line? How do I adjust my stance and bridge to accomodate that line?

If I want to hit the center of the CB, I notice that my eye/eyes (dominant?) are off to the side of the center of the CB and cannot accurately confirm that I am on the correct aim line to effect the CP to CP hit.

I could stick aim the CP to CP, but my stick would not be lined up with the center of the CB and in order to get it there, I must parallel shift my stick and stance over to the center of the CB. This requires that I shift my bridge hand, grasp on the butt and my body to effect the parallel shift.

Do you have an accurate way to do this or does it take great imagination? Perhaps I can practice moving my bridge one inch to the center of the CB and moving my grasp and stance a corresponding one inch if that is the distance required to effect the CP to CP hit?

That's the rub.:confused:
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See AtLarge's response. I personally sight all shots through the center of the CB exactly along my desired line of aim (i.e., to the center of the desired ghost-ball position, adjusted for throw if appropriate); although, I find that visualizing (or, at least, attempting to visualize) the desired contact point on the OB, and sometimes on the CB, does help me on some shots, especially back cuts. Sometimes I even resort to the technique in the following video, when I am having a difficult time visualizing the required line of aim on a shot:

In other words, No ... I don't have a accurate way to do what you are asking.

Regards,
Dave
 
I have though about this conundrum about parallel shifting from the CP to CP stick aiming and effecting an accurate parallel shift back to the center of the CB aim line, and I have incorporated it into my PSR.

I address the shot while standing erect:
- I extend my cue on the CP to CP aim line with its tip almost touching the CB
- I pivot my cue from my grip hand until it is pointing at the corresponding point on the other side of the center of the CB
- I then locate the midpoint on my cue between my grip and the tip of my cue
- I grasp the cue with my bridge hand at that midpoint on the table
- I then pivot from my bridge until the cue is now aimed at the center of the CB
- I slide my bridge forward to my normal bridge distance behind the CB while getting down on the shot
- I then stroke and shoot.

This accomplishes and accurate parallel shift from the CP to CP aim line to the correct center of the CB aim line.

Now where’s that other glass of Cabernet?:wink:
 
LAMas,

We've talked about this SHIfT before. Although describing it is tougher than doing it, :grin-square: you have combined several aiming systems into an alignment system.

How repeatable is the pivot? Does it change with perspective? Does the Cabernet help the pivot?

Zum Wohl!

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
LAMas,

We've talked about this SHIfT before. Although describing it is tougher than doing it, :grin-square: you have combined several aiming systems into an alignment system.

How repeatable is the pivot? Does it change with perspective? Does the Cabernet help the pivot?

Zum Wohl!

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Now let me be clear about this or is it the claret?

Mike,

What I proffered, is not given to perspective or parallax for it is founded on geometry.

The center of the cue/shaft aimed at the CP to CP is not given to perspective even though the OB down table appears to be smaller. the edge of the smaller appearing OB and the edge of the larger appearing CB being aimed at through the center of the cue is easily attained.

With a little practice, one can percieve and commit to memory the other CP to CP for the other infinite cut angles or use the line from the pocket/target to where it exits the OB (point of contact).

By aiming the center of the cue to the CP to CP and then pivoting from the grip on the cue to the corresponding point on the CB on the other side of the CB, is in effect doubling the angle. Thus grasping the bridge at the midpoint between the tip of the cue and the gripping hand, halves the distance. By pivoting to the center of the CB from this bridge has effected the parallel shift - now just slide your bridge forwad on this line to your normal bridge distance behing the CB - stroke and shoot.

It is geometrically accurate.

It this clear or claret?:confused::):thumbup:
 
LAMas said:
... This accomplishes and accurate parallel shift from the CP to CP aim line to the correct center of the CB aim line. ...
Click to expand...

Well, yes, that's a cleverly engineered "solution" to your conundrum, but I have some doubt as to its practical application. But maybe you're just teasing.:)
 
AtLarge said:
Well, yes, that's a cleverly engineered "solution" to your conundrum, but I have some doubt as to its practical application. But maybe you're just teasing.:)
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It's not parsimonious but could be accurate - geometrically.
Half the cue pivot 1.jpg

Thin cut:
Half the cue pivot 90 1.jpg
 
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I understand what you are doing, but I'm not into as much exercise as you are. My questions were more about maintaining your concentration after working out :wink: with the shift and pivot at length. I am more of a point and shoot player anymore. I can do all the setups, but have put them all together to simplify my alignment. My focus lasts longer with fewer moving parts.

Have you tried the alignment I posted? There are some of the same parameters with your double the distance lineup with a few less steps. It works for shots less than a half ball hit and gives me a pretty consistent starting point to see the angle. It starts with the CP and adjusts as the shot angles change. It follows a ghost ball alignment and with a little practice the method is easy to use.

I use a different sighting method for shots over a half ball. It is also based on the CP which is a solid visual reference for me.

Best,
Mike
 
I've been away from the table for at least a month now. I'm back into pistol shooting at the range. Recived my C&C permit. Took some lessons from a handgun instructor. One thing I relearned is how to check your aliment. I've been away from the range from some time now.
If you line up on target and close your eyes for 3 seconds, when you open them it's OK if you drift up on down. If you go right or left you need to adjust your stance.
I don't know if this applies to P.S.R. but it might be worth a look see?

Zumie Woop!
If people see you closing your eyes at the table they might suggest getting help. I hear it all the time. No one well take me LOL.
 
Fenwick said:
I've been away from the table for at least a month now. I'm back into pistol shooting at the range. Recived my C&C permit. Took some lessons from a handgun instructor. One thing I relearned is how to check your aliment. I've been away from the range from some time now.
If you line up on target and close your eyes for 3 seconds, when you open them it's OK if you drift up on down. If you go right or left you need to adjust your stance.
I don't know if this applies to P.S.R. but it might be worth a look see?

Zumie Woop!
If people see you closing your eyes at the table they might suggest getting help. I hear it all the time. No one well take me LOL.
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Take the pistol with you and nobody will say anything about what you do at the pool room. :wink: In fact you'll make a lot of friends ala Joe Pesci in, "Wise Guys".

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
Take the pistol with you and nobody will say anything about what you do at the pool room. :wink: In fact you'll make a lot of friends ala Joe Pesci in, "Wise Guys".

Best,
Mike
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I don't need no stinking pistols. Nobody talks to me now. I got lots of friends already. They just don't talk to me anymore.

How am I funny? What, you think I'm funny like some kind of frigging clown?
 
Fenwick said:
I don't need no stinking pistols. Nobody talks to me now. I got lots of friends already. They just don't talk to me anymore.

How am I funny? What, you think I'm funny like some kind of frigging clown?
Click to expand...

I love it! This guy is a menace to society! :thumbup:

Best,
Mike
 
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