Efren Reyes in the 1990s vs Current SVB

Efren claims he played his best pool in the mid-70's, a good decade before most of us saw him. It's presumptuous, IMO, to assume that anyone, no matter how close they currently are, will ever attain his level. Not all that long ago people were talking about "when" rather than "if" Tiger would surpass Nicklaus; now Tiger is 36 and who knows if he will ever win another major, much less the 4 he needs just to catch Jack.

I agree that Shane is close, and I'm certainly not rooting for him to have a tiger-esque setback, but I don't think he's as close as Buddy and Earl were in their primes.

Billy I. told one of the best Efren stories I've heard. He watched Efren warming up for a tournament match (must have been late 80's or early 90's). Efren threw all 15 balls out on just one half of the table and ran them out in order. Then he did it again, and again, and again. He ran four consecutive racks of rotation with the balls clustered up one one half of the table, then packed up his cues and walked out of the practice room. There's a reason there are 100 such stories about various feats of his that left other world class players stunned and awed at the time. Or maybe he just got lucky.

Aaron
 
Last edited:
bythecliff said:
Yeah it seems like Efren's advantage is in the cue ball control, kicking and safety play. The SVB vs Bustamante TAR matchup a few months ago demonstrated that Bustamante can outmanuver Shane in safeties and CBC. however, one could argue that Bustamante also had a more powerful break than Efren. I just remember that Efren, in his prime, made more mistakes and missed more shots than Shane does now.
Click to expand...

Is the busty vs svb tar match posted anywhere?
 
This is 10 ball, not 9 ball. In 9 ball I would agree that Efren has the advantage because a big break is not nearly as important in keeping control of the table. In 10 ball however, the break is king and Shane has a much better break than Efren in his prime. I think that advantage is too much to overcome until somebody figures out how to finesse break a 10 ball rack.

That said, if Efren had Bustamante as his designated breaker, I would bet on Efren all day long.
 
Last edited:
Aaron_S said:
Billy I. told one of the best Efren stories I've heard. He watched Efren warming up for a tournament match (must have been late 80's or early 90's). Efren threw all 15 balls out on just one half of the table and ran them out in order. Then he did it again, and again, and again. He ran four consecutive racks of rotation with the balls clustered up one one half of the table, then packed up his cues and walked out of the practice room. There's a reason there are 100 such stories about various feats of his that left other world class players stunned and awed at the time. Or maybe he just got lucky.

Aaron
Click to expand...

I have seen Efren do this exact same thing. I remember Billy telling this story and I knew exactly what he was talking about. He did it at the derby in 2007 IIRC. I was in the corner with 4-5 other people. Efren came up to an open table and threw all the balls out. He ran at least 4-5 racks of 15 balls in order, then just grabbed his cue and left. It was pretty sick to watch the control he had.
 
iF YOU ARE TALKING TOURNAMENT PLAY ITS ATOSS UP IN THE 90S FOR THE CASH jOSE PARICA WAS THE STRONGER PLAYER THEN PROBABLY bUSTY. Long huals Alex &SHANE ARE IN A CLASS OF THEIR OWN.
 
brandoncook26 said:
I have seen Efren do this exact same thing. I remember Billy telling this story and I knew exactly what he was talking about. He did it at the derby in 2007 IIRC. I was in the corner with 4-5 other people. Efren came up to an open table and threw all the balls out. He ran at least 4-5 racks of 15 balls in order, then just grabbed his cue and left. It was pretty sick to watch the control he had.
Click to expand...

Sick is right. One of these days when I'm warming up I'm gonna show that pesky "L" drill who's boss, but for some reason I don't think the spectators will be quite as impressed. :o

Aaron
 
There are good points made on both sides here, but i'd take the 90's efren. Sure, shane could break big... you think efren hasn't seen that?? what efren did so well, make a great shot or 2 during the match, the opponent knows nobody else in the world could have gotten out from there, and the old "im playing efren" kicks in. That IS the edge hed have as far as im concerned, and it would overpower the break in the longrun.
 
The Chinchilla said:
There are good points made on both sides here, but i'd take the 90's efren. Sure, shane could break big... you think efren hasn't seen that?? what efren did so well, make a great shot or 2 during the match, the opponent knows nobody else in the world could have gotten out from there, and the old "im playing efren" kicks in. That IS the edge hed have as far as im concerned, and it would overpower the break in the longrun.
Click to expand...
Yep, like my buddy told me once while I was playing Parica ( and shot a ball that was 8" from the hole into the rail about 6" away from the pocket!):
He wins a lotta games coz he's Parica.

Same with Efren, but he's not Parica.
 
I agree with others that have said that this wouldn't be the first time he's seen a big break. Earl had the best break back then and Efren found a way to grind him out in the color of money. The fact that it's ten ball has no impact on the outcome in my opinion. Efren doesn't have a game he's not as good in, he's great at everything. Now don't get me wrong, Shane is amazing but I can't even definitively say that he's the best in the world right now and Efren is the best the world has ever seen so to me it's really not a debate at this point. As amazing as Shane is he just keeps getting better so this debate might be closer in a few years but Shane now and Efren in his prime I'm goin with the Magician all day.
 
shane= efren

Rico said:
iF YOU ARE TALKING TOURNAMENT PLAY ITS ATOSS UP IN THE 90S FOR THE CASH jOSE PARICA WAS THE STRONGER PLAYER THEN PROBABLY bUSTY. Long huals Alex &SHANE ARE IN A CLASS OF THEIR OWN.
Click to expand...

Thats where u got it wrong parica was in a class of his own when it came to playing for days. His stamina was legendary when he was 40, imagine when he was 30 or 25. He beat everyone without a break. He is as close to efren as there is or was. When you play long sets the break doesn\t matter as much, u need to do everything well that will always outrun a break in the long haul. He should play orcullo or yang for a change and instead of making them come to Tar he should travel to china or the philipines instead.
 
Last edited:
tommygunn78 said:
Thats where u got it wrong parica was in a class of his own when it came to playing for days. His stamina was legendary when he was 40, imagine when he was 30 or 25. He beat everyone without a break. He is as close to efren as there is or was. When you play long sets the break doesn\t matter as much, u need to do everything well that will always outrun a break in the long haul
Click to expand...

It blows my mind that alot of people forget to talk about Parica. I was just a kid in the 80s and 90s and I always used to confuse Efren and Parica when my dad would be watching either one of them. They both were amazing back then. I'd have to put Parica 3rd on my all time list but just barely behind Efren and Earl. Really he's the one that set the stage for Efren being the leader of the invasion and all. I have much respect for Parica and his game.
 
location

tommygunn78 said:
Thats where u got it wrong parica was in a class of his own when it came to playing for days. His stamina was legendary when he was 40, imagine when he was 30 or 25. He beat everyone without a break. He is as close to efren as there is or was. When you play long sets the break doesn\t matter as much, u need to do everything well that will always outrun a break in the long haul. He should play orcullo or yang for a change and instead of making them come to Tar he should travel to china or the philipines instead.
Click to expand...

Shane has traveled to the Philipines to play. I heard he is one of the only Americans to leave with the cash.

I believe Shane will play anyone on the planet 10-ball for the cash. Tar makes it possible by putting up the money for travel and other things.

Shane will put up his cash, or has plenty of people willing to back him against anyone.

I know in the action room Shane would be the favorite against anybody, and the betting would reflect that just like it always does.
 
I think Efren is mentally tougher than Shane, so I would give him the edge. I've never seen Efren bounce the CB off the slate after catching a bad roll.

Efren never gives any indication whether is ahead or behind, he just has more complete control over his emotions. That goes a long way, esp. in long races.
 
Klink said:
Shane has traveled to the Philipines to play. I heard he is one of the only Americans to leave with the cash.

I believe Shane will play anyone on the planet 10-ball for the cash. Tar makes it possible by putting up the money for travel and other things.

Shane will put up his cash, or has plenty of people willing to back him against anyone.

I know in the action room Shane would be the favorite against anybody, and the betting would reflect that just like it always does.
Click to expand...

If shane went to china to play yang I would bet my life savings on yang in a race to 100
 
I will disagree with most here.
If Efren of 20 or 25 years ago is indeed better than Shane of year 2012, that would mean that there was no progress in quality of pool game. None what so ever.
And that would also mean that future top guys from year 2032. for example might not get any better than current top guys like Darren, Shane, or top guys from 25 years ago. Have we reached the human limit? Already? How believable is that?

I don't know what is it with pool fans, but most think that peak performance of Efren is some kind of pool perfection and that nothing can top that, ever...am I close? My opinion is, no matter how good one gets, there's always room for improvement.

There is a constant progress in every single sport, physical types, non physical types, other cue games...you name it. Is pool some kind of exception? I don't think so.

I like both players very much, but I'm no fanboy of either. Shane is better, no question.
 
tommygunn78 said:
Yes there is. Thats why shane soesn't play them he can't win, he only beats up on the guys that he knows he is the favorite in those tar matches. He loses every time he plays busty. And in my eyes busty might be the worst player on that 10 man list. And if the table gets tighter shane doesn't play nearly as well because it becomes a game more than a break.
Click to expand...

I have to say, I think your a little out of line on your comments. Not that I am saying your are wrong necassarily, but your taking it too far. As I recall Shane went to the Phillipines last year and took Busty for a good chunk of change, he also played Orcullo and beat him too while he was there and has gambled with Efren and beaten him also. Busty does usually seem to have Shanes number and I have to say the Efren discussion here is up in the air as well as Orcullo and Shane but once again it seems Orcullo has Shanes number I have watched a few of their matches and he seems to get quite a few rolls against him but takes advantage of it. But the other people on your list is just ridiculous in my opinion and is pretty degrading to one of the best players in the world and in history for only being around the big times for 5 years now.
 
Imho your life savings would be at great risk. No matter where they play. Shane is one of the few Americans who will and does travel abroad.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top