Who is the BEST pool-playing INSTRUCTOR?

john schmidt said:
heres my thoughts , in golf the object of the game is obvious ,its 95 percent execution and 5 percent knowledge as far as strategy.
not saying golf is easier or harder,but the general idea of whats the correct play on any givin golf shot is fairly obvious its just extremely hard to do it.ive played serious golf 20 years and feel im pretty spot on with my assesments between golf and pool.they r equally difficult to play near perfect.

let me give an example if someone plays golf say 30 times i would think they have a solid idea that they want to drive the ball long straight,in fairway on green,stay in bounds,out of water etc etc.
the strategy and what u should do givin any one golf shot is fairly obvious just extremely hard to execute. hence my 95 percent execution and 5 percent stategy or knowlege.
anybody thats played golf knows if your standing on a par 3 200 yards over water,that on green is great,in water is bad, its just extremely hard to do.
thats why golf instructors all they basically work on is the swing mechanics to hit ball straight solid etc,

now lets take pool u can play pool 30 years much less 30 times and not have a good grasp on the strategy. u can have a easy pool shot but the stategy involved is not obvious on that particular shot. imho pool is 50/50 execution and knowledge.theres 15 balls and a cueball and 6 pockets versus one golf ball and one golf hole. im no math major but i promise that introduces more variables hence needing more stategy to win. this is why very high caliber poolplayers can give good lessons because they understand the stategy and physics of all the pool games the best.



so the thing is a golf instuctor has perfect knowledge of swing and a pool instructor has perfect knowledge of pool cue swing mechanics but pool requires tons of strategy and proper shot selection to go with that.

i think if somebody wants their cue swing mechanics analyzed the cue instructors would b great for that.
if a player wanted to say learn the stategy of 8,9,10,ball,1hole,14.1 and all the shot selections etc i would think the top players would give the student what they are looking for.

this is why say mark wilson and tony robles r great instructors ,they understand the cue swing mechanics and understand strategy to the fullest.

in closing all the pool instructors out there r good for the game ,they get people interested and promote the game.


also no not all top players can communicate,b patient etc
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This is a great analysis of the two games. Spot on here. Nice post.
 
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john schmidt said:
also no not all top players can communicate,b patient etc
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This reminded me a great analogy from Stu Mattana who said (paraphrasing) that as a teacher, if you have a 100% understanding of the game, and your communication skills are 80%, the maximum the student can learn from you is 80% of the game, and the opposite is also true in that a student learning from an instructor with 100% level communication skills who only has a 80% understanding of the game, will still also only be able to learn 80% of the game.

This should piss both sides off. :D
 
$.02

Having said what I said, the question of who is the best pool playing instructor is a legitimate one. Not only is knowledge and communication important, but the ability to inspire is seriously up there too. This is where an excellent player as a teacher has a bit of an advantage. It's kind of like if he or she can do it, I can do it. If that's what inspires you to get better and enjoy the game, then that's the kind of instructor for you. Nothin' wrong with that! :)
 
T, I hear what your saying but let me ask this: Bear Bryant played End for Alabama 1933-1935 but what pro team did he play for? Given his record as a coach, I'd say he could inspire players just fine.

I believe it's often the synergy of many skills that makes a great coach.
 
john schmidt said:
heres my thoughts , in golf the object of the game is obvious ,its 95 percent execution and 5 percent knowledge as far as strategy.
not saying golf is easier or harder,but the general idea of whats the correct play on any givin golf shot is fairly obvious its just extremely hard to do it.ive played serious golf 20 years and feel im pretty spot on with my assesments between golf and pool.they r equally difficult to play near perfect.

let me give an example if someone plays golf say 30 times i would think they have a solid idea that they want to drive the ball long straight,in fairway on green,stay in bounds,out of water etc etc.
the strategy and what u should do givin any one golf shot is fairly obvious just extremely hard to execute. hence my 95 percent execution and 5 percent stategy or knowlege.
anybody thats played golf knows if your standing on a par 3 200 yards over water,that on green is great,in water is bad, its just extremely hard to do.
thats why golf instructors all they basically work on is the swing mechanics to hit ball straight solid etc,

now lets take pool u can play pool 30 years much less 30 times and not have a good grasp on the strategy. u can have a easy pool shot but the stategy involved is not obvious on that particular shot. imho pool is 50/50 execution and knowledge.theres 15 balls and a cueball and 6 pockets versus one golf ball and one golf hole. im no math major but i promise that introduces more variables hence needing more stategy to win. this is why very high caliber poolplayers can give good lessons because they understand the stategy and physics of all the pool games the best.



so the thing is a golf instuctor has perfect knowledge of swing and a pool instructor has perfect knowledge of pool cue swing mechanics but pool requires tons of strategy and proper shot selection to go with that.

i think if somebody wants their cue swing mechanics analyzed the cue instructors would b great for that.
if a player wanted to say learn the stategy of 8,9,10,ball,1hole,14.1 and all the shot selections etc i would think the top players would give the student what they are looking for.

this is why say mark wilson and tony robles r great instructors ,they understand the cue swing mechanics and understand strategy to the fullest.

in closing all the pool instructors out there r good for the game ,they get people interested and promote the game.


also no not all top players can communicate,b patient etc
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And your take on aiming systems is.... :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
dr9ball said:
T, I hear what your saying but let me ask this: Bear Bryant played End for Alabama 1933-1935 but what pro team did he play for? Given his record as a coach, I'd say he could inspire players just fine.

I believe it's often the synergy of many skills that makes a great coach.
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Very true about the synergy of many skills making a great coach. I agree completely.

There is an important difference in your example and that is the pool student is completely responsible for choosing the coach and also pretty much responsible for the results. In football, it's closer to the other way around.

However, your point regarding the ability to inspire is well taken.
 
JoeyA said:
I like your thoughts. It is fun just to imagine which way the chips would fall. Like you I agree that you should not limit yourself to where and what you learn, if you are interested in becoming a complete player.(At least that's what I think you are saying)

But as far as pool being a "non athletic" sport, I disagree. The difference between bowling, darts and pool is a deep difference. In pool tournaments, players are required to be at their peak 18 hours a day, ready to be called up for a match. Often in multi-day tournaments, players sometimes are deprived of recovery sleep and if you are not in shape, you pay the price. I see those players who are in the best shape as those who generally find a way to win in multi-day tournaments. Tournament competition is GRUELING and it takes an ATHLETE to perform at their peak day in day out.
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Hey Joey, fair enough and point taken. But don't bowling tourney's last over several days as well ? I don't bowl but I"m assuming the format is similar to a pool or dart tourney ???

But I guess we could argue that pool requires much more mental stamina than bowling because of the chess like thinking involved in games, especially 8ball and 1P and 14.1

Still not sure it takes an "athlete" to play pool for 12 hours, heck, many of the old road hustlers, the only time they saw the inside of a YMCA was when they were busted and sharing a room for the night, with NO intention of using the exercise equipment :)
 
Tony Robles- teaching for probably 20 years and still competes in many events
John Schmidt- expert teacher of 14.1 and one pocket
Charlie Williams - trained top pros Yu Ram Cha,Allison Fisher,Rodney Morris,Erica Park
Allison Fisher - has done numerous schools and academies
Ralph Eckert - author of books and PAT system endorsed by WPA and former Euro champ
 
JoeyA said:
Thanks Jennie. I appreciate your input.

You're right that it is a rare few who can actually play pool *and* teach. They are two different skill sets.

My goal was to honor those instructors who can play at a very high level, not to disparage those instructors who possess only the other very important skill set.
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Learning how to actually play the game is very different from just learning how to hold the cue, stance, stroke, etc.

I'll be the first to say that all instructors are wonderful for the game but once you have solid basics where do you go from there? Back to the original instructor that has never performed under the pressure of live fire? Never exhibiting their competitive skills in actual combat on any kind of a regular basis?

No ... I think the alternative would be seeking a 'real player' instructor who has gone to war and thrives on the competition, a contender not a pretender. One who knows how to win

Since Joey is an advanced player I think he's looking to list the different species instructor that goes beyond ordinary

Envy may ruffle some feathers in this thread but that's just the way it is ...

The list? True, maybe only a few have real communicative skills, at this particular time :smile:, but one thing's for sure - they all know how to win

Some things just need to be said

Nice list Joey. Good job
 
JAM said:
Just to stay on topic of the thread, there used to be a pro player in New Jersey named Jose, I think was his name, who used to give instruction. I cannot remember his last name.


if anybody was ever fortunate enough to have taken lessons from Jimmy Reid, he is not only good about teaching fundamentals, approaching the table, addressing the ball, et cetera, et cetera, but he also taught the zen in pool, like surrounding yourself with positive people, positive vibes, and being positive about your shooting capabilities.




Jose Garcia is who I think you're referring to Jen

small poolroom owner Vineland NJ, great player, very nice fellow as well, and gave (past tense?) lessons

if he indeed still gives lessons he should be on this list
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billy said:
Jose Garcia is who I think you're referring to Jen

small poolroom owner Vineland NJ, great player, very nice fellow as well, and gave (past tense?) lessons

if he indeed still gives lessons he should be on this list
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That is him, Billy. Thanks for the refreshing my memory, which is fading in my old age! :embarrassed2:
 
In sum, there ain't no "best" way to learn how to play pool, whether you have expert instruction by a pool-playing instructor or one who has expertise in teaching the fundamentals.

I equate it to dieting. Sure, I can go to Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, or one of the other weight loss entities to receive instruction, but guess what? The only way for me to lose weight after receiving all of that instruction it so apply it to my everyday life.

In pool, you can receive all the instruction in the world, from Willie Mosconi's ghost even, but one will never advance in pool unless they hit thousands of balls each and every day. There are no shortcuts. One must practice, and the practice must be qualitative practice, much more so than quantitative. :p
 
lfigueroa said:
And your take on aiming systems is.... :-)

Lou Figueroa
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hey mr one pocket, that has no nuts to play 8,9 or 10 ball because it will expose how much you suck. aiming systems work and give it a rest already! I challenge you to put a current video on here playing 2 games in a row of 8,9 or 10 ball and i will do the same and i will even explain every shot! let me shut your trap once and for all, old school.
 
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billy said:
Learning how to actually play the game is very different from just learning how to hold the cue, stance, stroke, etc.

I'll be the first to say that all instructors are wonderful for the game but once you have solid basics where do you go from there? Back to the original instructor that has never performed under the pressure of live fire? Never exhibiting their competitive skills in actual combat on any kind of a regular basis?

No ... I think the alternative would be seeking a 'real player' instructor who has gone to war and thrives on the competition, a contender not a pretender. One who knows how to win

Since Joey is an advanced player I think he's looking to list the different species instructor that goes beyond ordinary

Envy may ruffle some feathers in this thread but that's just the way it is ...

The list? True, maybe only a few have real communicative skills, at this particular time :smile:, but one thing's for sure - they all know how to win

Some things just need to be said

Nice list Joey. Good job
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Man, this is some cold shit to spread around. What makes you think the rest of us are pretenders who have never performed under pressure? You make it seem like all we can do is communicate and teach people how to hold the cue the right way. May as well say we are all a bunch of bangers, we have no idea how to win. But in reality, how many instructors have you really seen play? I'd like to know who they are.
 
I consider myself both a quality player and a quality instructer.

I have the playing credentials.

Three New England nine-ball championships in the 1980's.

A senior eight-ball championship in 2010.

I also offer a free lesson to anyone that comes to me for one lesson and doesn't want to come back for more. So far, one person has refused to come back for the second lesson. If I can't sell what I teach, on the first lesson, it doesn't make sense for either of us to continue.


_______________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
 
JAM said:
There's quite a few BCA Hall of Famers on that list, to include quite a few industry members who post on this very forum who do and have taken drugs in the past and/or are currently taking them. What does this have to do with being one of the best pool-playing instructors? If somebody is drug-free, that doesn't mean they are the best, IMO.
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You're right. There are drug users all over our industry. The drug user player-teacher is starting off by lying to his student. Why? Because that person used drugs to compete. How can they teach someone how to compete when they couldn't do it themselves without self-medicating? How does a student know if what the drug user teacher is telling them holds up under pressure or is even legit, for that matter, and not some BS they made up to make a few bucks?
 
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tom mcgonagle said:
I consider myself both a quality player and a quality instructer.

I have the playing credentials.

Three New England nine-ball championships in the 1980's.

A senior eight-ball championship in 2010.

I also offer a free lesson to anyone that comes to me for one lesson and doesn't want to come back for more. So far, one person has refused to come back for the second lesson. If I can't sell what I teach, on the first lesson, it doesn't make sense for either of us to continue.


_______________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
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No good, Tom. You can't speak for yourself with this list. You have to be arbitrarily selected. Some stranger has to come on here and vouch for you. Then you'll make the list. Your best bet is to have a friend sign up with AZ and then come one here and state what a great player you are. Have a couple of friends do it. Then you'll be in.
 
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FranCrimi said:
You're right. There are drug users all over our industry. The drug user teacher is starting off by lying to his student. Why? Because that person used drugs to compete. How can they teach someone how to compete when they couldn't do it themselves without self-medicating? How does a student know if what the drug user teacher is telling them holds up under pressure or is even legit, for that matter, and not some BS they made up to make a few bucks?
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Same holds true for those making the rules for pool in the United States. Substance abuse is a universal problem, but I don't believe that it will prevent somebody from teaching.

Pool purists who have a strong disdain for altering one's state of consciousness at will may elect to take lessons from someone who doesn't drink, smoke, or use drugs. And that's okay.

There are other students who may not despise those who have used drugs in the past or today. And that's okay too.

My point is whether one uses drugs or not doesn't mean they can't teach. Those goody two-shoes who think those who inhaled are bad people and can't perform, whether as a teacher or a pool player, well, God bless them and their little world they live in.
 
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