What do you think is the reason for so many good pool halls closing?

[Lock N Load]

Well its like this Mr Lock,people spend to much time on the forum.

You spend a lot of time wondering about pool.Do you ever stop and play.:grin:

Funny you should say that,
I do not own a pool hall! But I was at Buffalo's Billiards the worlds pool hall last night until 3:AM. Now was I on the forum, no!!! Thanks for your input.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[dr9ball]

I'm not going to list what reasons I believe are closing down the poolhalls, but I want to share what I saw a week ago in my local hangout.

A large group of eight young men and women (probably late teens to mid-twenties) came into the hall and promptly took over two tables. They stayed about an hour and a half. In that time not a SINGLE one of them ate nor drank anything. They turned their balls in, paid the table time and left.

Now, I don't know what the table rates are there, but I can assure you that NO poolhall can keep its doors open on revenue generated by table rental.

There HAS to be food and drink bought for the halls to stay open.

I get to shoot for free at my local hall because of league affiliation, but I do my part to support the hall by ALWAYS buying food and drinks (including alcohol) there and generously tipping the bartender/wait staff.

This group of kids that came in and bought nothing did very little to support this poolhall.

Maniac

It seems that you feel the young people "owed" something to the pool hall, that paying the hourly rate wasn't enough. That's what I think is wrong with pool. It seems many in business think people "owe" them, the room owners, something and they forget their doors are kept open by the people coming in the door.

Much of the food in the pool halls I've played in over the years wasn't fit to eat and it was over priced for what you got.

If people can get a good meal at a decent price then the restaurant portion will have a chance at making money. If the bar makes good drinks at a reasonable price then it will have a chance to compete with the other offerings out there. Consumers aren't as willing to spend their money as they once were without thinking about what value they are getting.

I once said I would never have a table in my home, because I wanted to be in the pool room playing in tournaments and matching up. The local room has nice people but the tables are poorly maintained, the food isn't of good value nor quality and the smoke is unbearable on some nights. So I put in a very nice table in my home and now I play alot more pool, have no smoke to worry about and have great food when I decide to make it.

I still play in the weekly tourney sometimes and sometimes I will eat something if I have to. They used to have a weekend special where you buy lunch and get free pool but they took that away. The $5 per hour cost is reasonable but as I said there's smoke, lower quality food and poorly maintained tables. There's no real reason for me to spend a lot of time in the pool hall anymore.

I believe it's like any other business, if you cater to the consumer's needs you are more likely to have word of mouth advertising, new and repeat business. If the owners have the attitude that the world owes them something, then I'd say it's hard to keep the business open. The owners are nice people, the staff are nice and courteous and the clientele are generally friendly. Consumers have a choice of where to spend their money and business are in trouble when business owners forget that.

 

[Lock N Load]

It seems that you feel the young people "owed" something to the pool hall, that paying the hourly rate wasn't enough. That's what I think is wrong with pool. It seems many in business think people "owe" them, the room owners, something and they forget their doors are kept open by the people coming in the door.

Much of the food in the pool halls I've played in over the years wasn't fit to eat and it was over priced for what you got.

If people can get a good meal at a decent price then the restaurant portion will have a chance at making money. If the bar makes good drinks at a reasonable price then it will have a chance to compete with the other offerings out there. Consumers aren't as willing to spend their money as they once were without thinking about what value they are getting.

I once said I would never have a table in my home, because I wanted to be in the pool room playing in tournaments and matching up. The local room has nice people but the tables are poorly maintained, the food isn't of good value nor quality and the smoke is unbearable on some nights. So I put in a very nice table in my home and now I play alot more pool, have no smoke to worry about and have great food when I decide to make it.

I still play in the weekly tourney sometimes and sometimes I will eat something if I have to. They used to have a weekend special where you buy lunch and get free pool but they took that away. The $5 per hour cost is reasonable but as I said there's smoke, lower quality food and poorly maintained tables. There's no real reason for me to spend a lot of time in the pool hall anymore.

I believe it's like any other business, if you cater to the consumer's needs you are more likely to have word of mouth advertising, new and repeat business. If the owners have the attitude that the world owes them something, then I'd say it's hard to keep the business open. The owners are nice people, the staff are nice and courteous and the clientele are generally friendly. Consumers have a choice of where to spend their money and business are in trouble when business owners forget that.

Very good post and story!!! I enjoyed reading it too.
Many Regards
Lock N Load.

 

[OneIron]

It seems that you feel the young people "owed" something to the pool hall, that paying the hourly rate wasn't enough. That's what I think is wrong with pool. It seems many in business think people "owe" them, the room owners, something and they forget their doors are kept open by the people coming in the door.

Much of the food in the pool halls I've played in over the years wasn't fit to eat and it was over priced for what you got.

If people can get a good meal at a decent price then the restaurant portion will have a chance at making money. If the bar makes good drinks at a reasonable price then it will have a chance to compete with the other offerings out there. Consumers aren't as willing to spend their money as they once were without thinking about what value they are getting.

I once said I would never have a table in my home, because I wanted to be in the pool room playing in tournaments and matching up. The local room has nice people but the tables are poorly maintained, the food isn't of good value nor quality and the smoke is unbearable on some nights. So I put in a very nice table in my home and now I play alot more pool, have no smoke to worry about and have great food when I decide to make it.

I still play in the weekly tourney sometimes and sometimes I will eat something if I have to. They used to have a weekend special where you buy lunch and get free pool but they took that away. The $5 per hour cost is reasonable but as I said there's smoke, lower quality food and poorly maintained tables. There's no real reason for me to spend a lot of time in the pool hall anymore.

I believe it's like any other business, if you cater to the consumer's needs you are more likely to have word of mouth advertising, new and repeat business. If the owners have the attitude that the world owes them something, then I'd say it's hard to keep the business open. The owners are nice people, the staff are nice and courteous and the clientele are generally friendly. Consumers have a choice of where to spend their money and business are in trouble when business owners forget that.

Good post. We're on the same page. Poor service, mediocre equipment, obnoxious music, and the worst, smoke you can cut with a knife. At my house, I have a nice table with Simonis 860, cold beer, clean surroundings, and nice music piped in from Pandora to my Bose speakers. And add to that, fewer visits to the gas pump.

 

[Maniac]

It seems that you feel the young people "owed" something to the pool hall, that paying the hourly rate wasn't enough. That's what I think is wrong with pool. It seems many in business think people "owe" them, the room owners, something and they forget their doors are kept open by the people coming in the door.

Much of the food in the pool halls I've played in over the years wasn't fit to eat and it was over priced for what you got.

If people can get a good meal at a decent price then the restaurant portion will have a chance at making money. If the bar makes good drinks at a reasonable price then it will have a chance to compete with the other offerings out there. Consumers aren't as willing to spend their money as they once were without thinking about what value they are getting.

Rufus, I don't believe anybody "owes" a poolhall anything when they walk through the doors, pay for table time, play for an hour or two, and leave. They've done all that is required of them. The point I am trying to make is that if these people want to have a place where they can go and bang a few balls around for a couple of hours, they had better start buying more than just table time or the hall will not likely survive and then they won't have that pool hall around anymore to play in.

The poolhall I mentioned in my quoted post has good food at reasonable prices. There is a jukebox that plays about half the time I am there, but never too loud. All the tables have recently been recovered. The restrooms are always clean. They have a smoke exhaust system that works fairly well. The wait staff is friendly and efficient. The drink prices are right on with any other bar/poolhall in my area. Except for the fact that they don't have any daily drink specials, there is not too much one could find fault with. It's the kind of poolhall that we NEED to stay open. Supporting the hall with buying more than "table time" is the only way to keep this poolhall open. It will not survive on table rental alone.

JMHO, you have the right to see it another way. Disagreement, when done in a respectful, friendly way is actually healthy for a public forum :thumbup:!!!

Maniac

 

[ronscuba]

Generally speaking, I think you can lump poolroom owners into three groups:

1. The Capitalist - This is your club owner. There were plenty of them during the 80s who had absolutely no interest in pool that opened rooms because "everybody was doing it." The moment the money stopped coming in hand-over-fist, they were off to an easier project.

2. The Pool Player - This is the player who always wanted his own room. Perhaps they don't have a world of business under the belts but their love of the game, closeness with their clients and a little dirt under their nails got their business afloat and afloat is really the goal.

3. The Capitalist Pool Player - The combination of love of the game and a great business know-how. They're savvy and looking to keep the poolroom not just afloat but successful for the long haul.


Understand, depending on your exact location, any one of the three can succeed for a long time. The problem is, if you're not in the absolute perfect location ever made for a poolroom, you really need to know everything about maximizing profits in that space AND you have to want to do it. That combination is very rare, unfortunately. Rarely is your poolroom owner an expert at "club management" and a "pool player" and in today's economy, oftentimes he has to be.

Nice summary. Sounds accurate to me. I have no idea how places like Society and Amsterdam make money. The rent has to be a killer. They can't be making much on table time. My guess is the liquor and food, which I gladly pay for since I more than make up for it with the power play table time.

 

[south51]

Simple Economics

there is no difference in the pool customers today than in the past cept for one thing and only one thing...money...

today's players almost all from middle class simply have had almost all of their cash extracted from them by the cartel that owns and controls this country...

it is by design that the cartel has transferred the wealth from the masses in the middle class...it is very easy to see...

almost ALL problems for any type of bizness today is as a direct result of the extraction machine and it's effectiveness...they are very good at what they do...

 

[ronscuba]

there is no difference in the pool customers today than in the past cept for one thing and only one thing...money...

today's players almost all from middle class simply have had almost all of their cash extracted from them by the cartel that owns and controls this country...

it is by design that the cartel has transferred the wealth from the masses in the middle class...it is very easy to see...

almost ALL problems for any type of bizness today is as a direct result of the extraction machine and it's effectiveness...they are very good at what they do...

huh ?????

 

[chefjeff]

huh ?????

He's talking oportunity costs.

It's an economic term that describes that if you spend money on one thing, you can't spend the same money on something else. Since all govt spending in the US = $5 Trillion and all income in the US = $5 Trillion, that leaves little (nothing, on average) for, in this case, pool.

Jeff Livingston

 

[ronscuba]

He's talking oportunity costs.

It's an economic term that describes that if you spend money on one thing, you can't spend the same money on something else. Since all govt spending in the US = $5 Trillion and all income in the US = $5 Trillion, that leaves little (nothing, on average) for, in this case, pool.

Jeff Livingston

Ah got it.

I will say pool is a relatively cheap hobby/game/sport. My other hobbies are golf, scuba, skiing. You could say the economy might be making an opportunity for pool since people have less money and can't afford the more expensive hobbies.

 

[onepocketron]

I also think that all the riverboat casinos opening in the last 15 years or so have had an impact. People are losing lots of their extra money at the casino and don't have enough left over for other things. They have also affected the gambling, which hurts pool rooms. Instead of spending time trying to get better at pool, its easier to go play poker. Its a combination of lots of things, but I think the casinos and the economy have been the two biggest contributors.

Andy

I know that a lot of the guys that used to gamble a ton are now playing Texas Holdem. My home room used to be full of action, now there is never any action as they are playing poker. In Texas gambling is illegal, but there are poker rooms all over the place, you just have to know where they are. The bad economy for the average player is also a really big factor as well.

 

[krupa]

I don't buy into the "bad economy" thing much because bars are constantly full-up and alcohol costs a helluva lot more in a bar than at home. Or to put it more generally, everything besides the basic necessities of life is luxury, and people are dropping tons on flat panel TVs, 1000 channel TV packages, iPads (every time they release a new one), digital book readers, etc., etc., etc..

At the end of the day, if people wanted to play pool there would be a business for it. Sure there's plenty of stories of smoking bans and gambling, etc. and that stuff has had some effect no doubt, but the fact remains that today there are 1000s of other things trying to grab people's attention and time and the sad fact is that most people today prefer sitting like lumps of crap on their couch watching stuff instead of doing stuff.

 

[cueandcushion]

I don't buy into the "bad economy" thing much because bars are constantly full-up and alcohol costs a helluva lot more in a bar than at home. Or to put it more generally, everything besides the basic necessities of life is luxury, and people are dropping tons on flat panel TVs, 1000 channel TV packages, iPads (every time they release a new one), digital book readers, etc., etc., etc..

At the end of the day, if people wanted to play pool there would be a business for it. Sure there's plenty of stories of smoking bans and gambling, etc. and that stuff has had some effect no doubt, but the fact remains that today there are 1000s of other things trying to grab people's attention and time and the sad fact is that most people today prefer sitting like lumps of crap on their couch watching stuff instead of doing stuff.

Good post.

So many people can afford a $500 phone but not a $500 cue which will last a lot longer. And people can afford a $100/month Iphone monthly bill but complain about a $10/week pool bill. Priorities have changed. People can spend hours a day on Facebook but dont have time to practice pool or workout. Its just not popular enough.

 

[Lock N Load]

Good post.

So many people can afford a $500 phone but not a $500 cue which will last a lot longer. And people can afford a $100/month Iphone monthly bill but complain about a $10/week pool bill. Priorities have changed. People can spend hours a day on Facebook but dont have time to practice pool or workout. Its just not popular enough.

Hello Cue,
Your post is good also! You are right!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[chefjeff]

Ah got it.

I will say pool is a relatively cheap hobby/game/sport. My other hobbies are golf, scuba, skiing. You could say the economy might be making an opportunity for pool since people have less money and can't afford the more expensive hobbies.

You could be right.

But, either way, with less money for non-essentials, pool halls had better become smart marketeers who outcompete those other recreations.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Lock N Load]

You could be right.

But, either way, with less money for non-essentials, pool halls had better become smart marketeers who outcompete those other recreations.

Jeff Livingston

You're right about that, Jeff. Good post again!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[ronscuba]

You could be right.

But, either way, with less money for non-essentials, pool halls had better become smart marketeers who outcompete those other recreations.

Jeff Livingston

True. The 2 local halls I play at offer discount table rates. One offers after 9 pm, a table until 3 am closing for $29. The other offers tables for $26 unlimited time for members who pay a $60 annual fee.

It's a very good deal for players. In exchange they are making money from food and drinks. Both places appear to be doing ok judging from how busy they are.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

True. The 2 local halls I play at offer discount table rates. One offers after 9 pm, a table until 3 am closing for $29. The other offers tables for $26 unlimited time for members who pay a $60 annual fee.

It's a very good deal for players. In exchange they are making money from food and drinks. Both places appear to be doing ok judging from how busy they are.

These deals you're talking about are player-friendly deals. The poolroom is actually operating at a loss to provide you with this deal. There ARE reasons why they do this but make no mistake of it, this is not their end-goal. Yes, they're hoping to make money off of the bar but also, there is more of a chance of making money off of walk-in business if the place looks fun. No empty place looks fun. In sum, they'll take a loss with their regulars with the hopes they'll make their money off of someone else.

 

[Spider1]

I don't buy into the "bad economy" thing much because bars are constantly full-up and alcohol costs a helluva lot more in a bar than at home.

Bar business is generally down since the recession. Way down, in some places. The industry magazines and trade groups all talk about this pretty often.

 

[ronscuba]

These deals you're talking about are player-friendly deals. The poolroom is actually operating at a loss to provide you with this deal. There ARE reasons why they do this but make no mistake of it, this is not their end-goal. Yes, they're hoping to make money off of the bar but also, there is more of a chance of making money off of walk-in business if the place looks fun. No empty place looks fun. In sum, they'll take a loss with their regulars with the hopes they'll make their money off of someone else.

Makes sense Jude. I try to give my share back in drinks, food, tips and telling everyone what a good place it is.

BTW, I will be joining your league next season. Just trying to round up some more players.