What do you think is the reason for so many good pool halls closing?

The Chinchilla said:
I honestly think the sport is dying in the US. In order to change, we need more SVB's, a lot more, like one in every other state or something. We had a situation like this 30 years ago, just monsters everywhere.
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Chinch,

There already IS at least one monster player in every other state. Heck there's probably one in EVERY state. Some states have multiple "monsters". Problem is , with no television exposure, no help from the local poolhalls giving them exposure (in the form of posters/handouts/paid exhibitions, etc.), there's just no possible way for any aspiring player to ever know these players exist. I could probably start naming off a list of todays great players to the regulars at my poolhall and I can tell you with no uncertainty that most of them wouldn't know who the hell I was talking about (with one exception: Jeanette Lee).

IMO, the amount of monster players in this era is at worst on par with monster players from the past. It's just that nobody (except us loyal AZB'ers and readers of billiard publications) know who any of them are.

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
Chinch,

There already IS at least one monster player in every other state. Heck there's probably one in EVERY state. Some states have multiple "monsters". Problem is , with no television exposure, no help from the local poolhalls giving them exposure (in the form of posters/handouts/paid exhibitions, etc.), there's just no possible way for any aspiring player to ever know these players exist. I could probably start naming off a list of todays great players to the regulars at my poolhall and I can tell you with no uncertainty that most of them wouldn't know who the hell I was talking about (with one exception: Jeanette Lee).

IMO, the amount of monster players in this era is at worst on par with monster players from the past. It's just that nobody (except us loyal AZB'ers and readers of billiard publications) know who any of them are.

Maniac
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SVB, might have to clone himself!!!
He is a great pool player!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Lock N Load said:
Is it poor Management? Money problems? Not enough customers? Or perhaps a sign of the hard times? Thanks.
Many Regards,
Lock n Load.
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All of the above...Plus pain in the ass customers that think everything should be free.......................
 
In Miami, there isnt enough interest from the casual public to sustain the amount of pool rooms we had. In the last two years we have seen the number of rooms contract from eight to five. Of the five remaining, business is probably better to some degree but really 4 or 3 might be the magic number where they get slammed and then it would be an oppportunity for a new room to start up and thrive. The sad part is that two out of the three rooms that closed had regular 9ball and 8ball tournaments and as the business has contracted, the room owners just tightened down and in the process, the rest of the weekly tournaments in miami were killed off.

This weekend we actually have a $50 entry fee, no money added event in Miami and the local players are really pumped up excited. Thats how tough its gotten down here, no money added events are time to celebrate. At least the room isnt trying to charge table time and there will be a calcutta.
 
Bad air quality, questionable clientele, crappy tables, poor service, loud obnoxious music, broken bathrooms, dirty surroundings, etc, etc.

I'm an older guy with disposable income and there's not a single room in my area that's upscale. I'm looking for clean surroundings, excellent well maintained tables, great sound system playing blues, jazz, etc., non smoking, good food, mixed drinks, good wait staff. Prices are irrelevant.

I know I'm not alone. Many of my friends voice the same concerns. Some have decided to forego the "pool room" experience and frequent the game rooms of their friends. I'm considering the same thing.

And no, I have no interest in opening up a room like this. I'm already running a business. :cool:
 
You can blame it on lack of expendable money or a bad economy, but I drive by a poker room every day on my way home from work and that place is packed every day.

Lots of things contribute but people in general are also lazy and it is a lot easier to sit and play poker than to play pool all day.

Also, the reward for poker is a lot higher than the reward for playing pool. You can only double your money in a set of pool.

Also, the suckers are not playing pool but instead are now playing poker and the sharks go where the fish are.
 
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About 25 years ago I asked my pool playing buddy that use to be a weekend bar hustler if opening a room would be a good venture. He asked "What are you interested in doing in the back room, women, drugs, or card games? A pool hall doesnt make it on its own."

One former owner told me his money was from the video poker machines, and numbers but the casinos and lotteries ended that.


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TheBook said:
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About 25 years ago I asked my pool playing buddy that use to be a weekend bar hustler if opening a room would be a good venture. He asked "What are you interested in doing in the back room, women, drugs, or card games? A pool hall doesnt make it on its own."

One former owner told me his money was from the video poker machines, and numbers but the casinos and lotteries ended that.


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So many good post. Thank you.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
wigglybridge said:
i can tell you what makes some rooms Stay Open: customer focus.

the Second time i ever went into Ivory Billiards in Holyoke MA, the owner who'd met me exactly Once a week before said "hey Mills, how are you doing tonight?". a few weeks later, the same kind of personal care from his partner/brother; one repeat visit is all it took, and he treated me like a valued customer.

the Third time i went in, owner #1 gives me a table and says "pepperoni pizza with a ginger ale, right?" (can't drink anymore). again, same thing with the woman behind the bar the next few times i come in.

the owners say hi to my girlfriend by name, even though she's in there only once every month or two, and Tommy gave her a 3-cushion lesson unprompted one night because he was excited that she was interested.

they have a bunch of bar boxes for league play, and those are usually busy. i don't play those, so i can't speak to their quality, but the 2 Gold Crowns and 6 Anniversaries are kept in top-notch shape, dead level, with Simonis 860 replaced when necessary.

that kind of personal touch guarantees customer loyalty: you better believe i tell everyone i know who might be interested in pool what the best hall around is, and why it's worth driving a little further to get there.
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Best post in the thread right there. Along with service, I think the problem is the inability to adapt. Times change, technology evolves. In 5 years we'll be depending on technology that hasn't even been invented yet.
Progress happens and we have no smoking laws. I love the mention of DUI laws. Good grief.
I'd also say it's a lot of pool players running businesses when we need business men running them. Good food, good drink, and good service keeps some rooms afloat.
 
KCRack'em said:
Best post in the thread right there. Along with service, I think the problem is the inability to adapt. Times change, technology evolves. In 5 years we'll be depending on technology that hasn't even been invented yet.
Progress happens and we have no smoking laws. I love the mention of DUI laws. Good grief.
I'd also say it's a lot of pool players running businesses when we need business men running them. Good food, good drink, and good service keeps some rooms afloat.
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Two good post, along with so many others.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
KCRack'em said:
I'd also say it's a lot of pool players running businesses when we need business men running them. Good food, good drink, and good service keeps some rooms afloat.
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The business men need to at least know the game a bit, too. I've seen what can happen when a business man who didn't know jack about pool opened a pool room. It didn't last three years. I know people complain about the attitude of the players but where I learned to play, the players paid at least the light bill every month and and ate there also. I think decent food is a must, the rooms in NYS made it for years without alcohol and now some of the same rooms survive without smoking. I really have to pretty much agree with the idea that pool is dead/dying in this country at present.
 
Taxes :(

I haven't read every post, but in Chicago if you have over 1 table, yes I said 1, you have to pay a $10,000 a year fee! That is even if you don't charge a penny for table time! Outrageous! Thank former Mayor Richard "Dick" Daily for that in the most corrupt city in the country and home to our current President. The land where two former governors are now behind bars (Hi Rod how's it hangin'?).

In the early part of the century, Chicago was one of the biggest pool cities in the country. It was host to many top rooms and tournaments. It was also the location for many of the scenes in the color of money.

Someone should start a petition (namely bar and pool hall owners) to try to get the law repealed.
 
Generally speaking, I think you can lump poolroom owners into three groups:

1. The Capitalist - This is your club owner. There were plenty of them during the 80s who had absolutely no interest in pool that opened rooms because "everybody was doing it." The moment the money stopped coming in hand-over-fist, they were off to an easier project.

2. The Pool Player - This is the player who always wanted his own room. Perhaps they don't have a world of business under the belts but their love of the game, closeness with their clients and a little dirt under their nails got their business afloat and afloat is really the goal.

3. The Capitalist Pool Player - The combination of love of the game and a great business know-how. They're savvy and looking to keep the poolroom not just afloat but successful for the long haul.


Understand, depending on your exact location, any one of the three can succeed for a long time. The problem is, if you're not in the absolute perfect location ever made for a poolroom, you really need to know everything about maximizing profits in that space AND you have to want to do it. That combination is very rare, unfortunately. Rarely is your poolroom owner an expert at "club management" and a "pool player" and in today's economy, oftentimes he has to be.
 
Lock N Load said:
Is it poor Management? Money problems? Not enough customers? Or perhaps a sign of the hard times? Thanks.
Many Regards,
Lock n Load.
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Well its like this Mr Lock,people spend to much time on the forum.:D

You spend a lot of time wondering about pool.Do you ever stop and play.:grin:
 
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The other thing I would like to add is real estate has not been kind to urban poolrooms. Basements and 2nd level spaces that were once undesireable by most retailers are now sought-after properties. Your poolroom is now competing with Best Buy and Food Emporium for space.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Generally speaking, I think you can lump poolroom owners into three groups:

1. The Capitalist - This is your club owner. There were plenty of them during the 80s who had absolutely no interest in pool that opened rooms because "everybody was doing it." The moment the money stopped coming in hand-over-fist, they were off to an easier project.

2. The Pool Player - This is the player who always wanted his own room. Perhaps they don't have a world of business under the belts but their love of the game, closeness with their clients and a little dirt under their nails got their business afloat and afloat is really the goal.

3. The Capitalist Pool Player - The combination of love of the game and a great business know-how. They're savvy and looking to keep the poolroom not just afloat but successful for the long haul.


Understand, depending on your exact location, any one of the three can succeed for a long time. The problem is, if you're not in the absolute perfect location ever made for a poolroom, you really need to know everything about maximizing profits in that space AND you have to want to do it. That combination is very rare, unfortunately. Rarely is your poolroom owner an expert at "club management" and a "pool player" and in today's economy, oftentimes he has to be.
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Very good post. I like your style. Thanks for your input.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Lack Of Prize Money Is The Cause Of Pools Demise

I think a major contributor to the lack of new found interest in pool is the lack of prize money available to the pros. People like to follow the money and as much as the public complains about the high payrolls that professional athletes earn it is one of the reasons they watch. They can fantasize what it would be like to earn huge amounts of money to do something fun and entertaining.

Kids aspire to become pro athletes in part due to the money and fame that is possible if you excel, what possibilities of those does pool inspire in our younger generation? None of them! Top billiard players in the bygone era were the pro athletes of today and is a major reason younger people followed them and took up the game, they were celebrities and were paid well for their talents and kids aspired to become like them.

In most all successful sports there are large payrolls and prize pools and people watch to see who is making all the money. If pool could televise tournaments with large payouts people would inevitably gain interest.

I think it's crazy that a sport that entails such talent to excel at a high level is rewarded or more accurately not rewarded with prize amounts reflecting the amount of talent and time that it takes to get oneself to a championship level.

The top money earner in professional pool makes far less in an entire year than what a pro golfer makes for winning one tournament, it's makes no sense. For pool to make a comeback and gain the interest of our children it needs to have some significant money and advertising injected into it or it will continue to die a slow and painful death as it has been doing for years now.

Show them the money and they will come.

Ken
 
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