8 Ball POOL TIPS on the Bar Box

[JoeyA]

Ah, I see. Let us do the work for you. Does the "A" in JoeyA mean "Armchair" per chance?



J/K,
-Sean

Yes, I once turned a team of players into unbeatable players winning all of the awards during a session. They had to play by JoeyA's rules. Doggone it, I'm going to put this "old rule" into the list because it DESERVES TO BE THERE. We not only won City Cup but the league operator changed the rules of the local league because of our dominance but that was a long time ago.

 

[sfleinen]

1. The blue font sentence was my sentiments toward everyone, including myself. Don't take it personally.

Then make it more clear. You responded to me directly, quoting me, and then included the "smack-smack" blue-ink-ruler application to the knuckles, without making it clear who that blue ink was targeted for. In other words, you shifted audience context mid-stream.

2. I've never been accused of being a cop, even a bad one.

Didn't accuse -- suggested actually, based on your good cop / bad cop routine. You'd be good at it, and you'd fulfill both roles simultaneously.

3. I love your suggestions and saying that I would get back to them at a later date spoke volumes of that. I think you are reading far too much into my blue, bold fonts. They had NOTHING to do with your suggestions, in fact it was supposed to have the opposite effect. My bold, blue font statement had EVERYTHING to do with suggesting that EVERYONE should be trying to help others with their pool game, rather than ripping into and tearing down one another's personna.

Again, audience context switching, with the predicted "get out of jail free" card. What did that stuff have to do with your reply to me, especially the ripping and tearing down part? You seem to be saying one thing above, but in the next piece, you say an entirely different thing...

You do that quite often and your post was no different,

See? Now pray tell, I do *what* specifically often? Ripping into and tearing down one another's persona? With trolls, sure I do. But honest posting people like yourself? I think you're projecting, Joey. You're guilty of the very thing you accuse me of. Deflection and projection.

except that you believe that this list is not as worthwhile as seeking out knowledge from other sources. At least that's what your post indicated to me.

Bzzzt! Wrong again. I didn't say that. What I did say, was that cheat sheets are not nearly as valuable as actual experience at the table. I did mention getting a roll of quarters and popping them into the barboxes at BB's to get a sense of how the cue ball reacts / how to integrate that into your 8-ball game, did I not?

Your post also insinauated that two weeks was not enough time to spend implementing these pool tips into your pool game. We just think differently about that as well and that's all there is to that.

No biggie -- a simple "we'll agree to disagree" will do. Not audience context shifting in the middle of your reply with "William F. Buckley" blue ink treatment, that is best served as a general reply to your own thread, not as a "I'll kill two birds with one stone" in a direct quoted reply to me.

Two weeks for me is an enormous amount of time to learn simple things like the suggestions provided by you, the other posters and myself.

We'll agree to disagree on that. Especially since in two weeks, you have to be ready to compete against folks that likely play 8-ball *all the time*. In that game, they have the advantage of muscle- and strategic-memory. You don't. Cheat sheets, however, will help the player that already has them muscle-memorized to an extent, to serve as a reminder upon a glance. Much like you can't be expected to go into a chess tournament with a cheat sheet, and you don't (or haven't) played much chess lately. The cheat sheet won't do you a bit of good, if you don't already have those moves muscle-memorized.

But again, we'll agree to disagree on that.

It's all good Sean. Just post your suggestions and help others to improve their game. You play a great game as evidence by your scores and the amount of time you play and you have a lot to offer people especially with your long-winded approach to explanations. j/k, j/k. I like it when you explain yourself thoroughly. I don't like to have to explain myself much more than I do already. I hope you understand that. Perhaps in person, I would be able and willing to do a better job of that.. Thanks for posting your valuable insights.

JoeyA

It's all good on my side, too. Just see my points above for what they are -- and that is opportunistically using my reply as a "sounding board" for the rest of the readership, especially if the points don't apply to me or have anything to do with the information I posted / you quoted, isn't exactly good form. That's my point, lock, stock, and barrel. Hopefully you got that.

-Sean

 

[JoeyA]

Then make it more clear. You responded to me directly, quoting me, and then included the "smack-smack" blue-ink-ruler application to the knuckles, without making it clear who that blue ink was targeted for. In other words, you shifted audience context mid-stream.



Didn't accuse -- suggested actually, based on your good cop / bad cop routine. You'd be good at it, and you'd fulfill both roles simultaneously.



Again, audience context switching, with the predicted "get out of jail free" card. What did that stuff have to do with your reply to me, especially the ripping and tearing down part? You seem to be saying one thing above, but in the next piece, you say an entirely different thing...



See? Now pray tell, I do *what* specifically often? Ripping into and tearing down one another's persona? With trolls, sure I do. But honest posting people like yourself? I think you're projecting, Joey. You're guilty of the very thing you accuse me of. Deflection and projection.



Bzzzt! Wrong again. I didn't say that. What I did say, was that cheat sheets are not nearly as valuable as actual experience at the table. I did mention getting a roll of quarters and popping them into the barboxes at BB's to get a sense of how the cue ball reacts / how to integrate that into your 8-ball game, did I not?



No biggie -- a simple "we'll agree to disagree" will do. Not audience context shifting in the middle of your reply with "William F. Buckley" blue ink treatment, that is best served as a general reply to your own thread, not as a "I'll kill two birds with one stone" in a direct quoted reply to me.



We'll agree to disagree on that. Especially since in two weeks, you have to be ready to compete against folks that likely play 8-ball *all the time*. In that game, they have the advantage of muscle- and strategic-memory. You don't. Cheat sheets, however, will help the player that already has them muscle-memorized to an extent, to serve as a reminder upon a glance. Much like you can't be expected to go into a chess tournament with a cheat sheet, and you don't (or haven't) played much chess lately. The cheat sheet won't do you a bit of good, if you don't already have those moves muscle-memorized.

But again, we'll agree to disagree on that.



It's all good on my side, too. Just see my points above for what they are -- and that is opportunistically using my reply as a "sounding board" for the rest of the readership, especially if the points don't apply to me or have anything to do with the information I posted / you quoted, isn't exactly good form. That's my point, lock, stock, and barrel. Hopefully you got that.

-Sean

You fret too much over the bold, blue font Sean. It's not going to hurt you, I promise. :grin:

 

[sfleinen]

I doubt that anyone is going to print this thread out and have it at their table during the match. If you can't read these tips and retain them to memory, then you had better hit a million balls. You should practice most of them, especially the ones which require a deft touch or precision shape, caroms, banks and perfect cue ball control. Some of the others are simple mental decisions that you should be aware of and not much more than that. I try to hit lots of balls, learn more, relearn old techniques and tips that might have gotten a little stale from sitting up, learn new things and put those into play as often as possible. Two weeks is a very long time to learn to practice these simple but important pool tips, at least it is for me.

Joey:

In 9-ball, your strategy is simple -- you have a single object ball on the table that you're solely focused on. In one pocket, you have a single pocket you're solely focused on -- whether that's your pocket, or your opponet's pocket, or both. All your decisions in both games revolve around those single points of focus.

In 8-ball, that "single point of focus" goes out the window. You have six pockets that you have to worry about, and as many as 7 object balls, the ultimate 8-ball, and your opponent's object balls on the table that you have to navigate between. That's an exponentially larger number of variables that you have to "keep handy" in your mind.

I dare say that "cheat sheets," even if memorized, will only serve you to a point -- you have to have had long-term experience in 8-ball to be able to compete against other folks who have that experience. Although "shooting" skills will get you far in the game, a like-shooter-skilled person who additionally has the long-term 8-ball skills (e.g. league) has the upper hand over a "memorized cheat sheet." You are likely going to be competing against some of those folks.

I say this, because I see this all the time in my 8-ball league -- guys that come in with shooting skills, but get their heads handed to them by either like-shooter-skilled (or even lesser skilled) 8-ball specialists.

-Sean

 

[ShootingArts]

one more thing to check

Joey,

Need to check their rules concerning the eight ball and have that in mind practicing. I normally played eight ball neutral until the last ball, either player could hit it before their ball and it wasn't a foul. After that it got complicated though. You still had to hit your ball on that shot with either the eight ball or the cue ball.

Naturally you don't want to roll the eight ball around but sometimes it comes in very handy if the rules allow.

Hu

 

[JoeyA]

Joey,

Need to check their rules concerning the eight ball and have that in mind practicing. I normally played eight ball neutral until the last ball, either player could hit it before their ball and it wasn't a foul. After that it got complicated though. You still had to hit your ball on that shot with either the eight ball or the cue ball.

Naturally you don't want to roll the eight ball around but sometimes it comes in very handy if the rules allow.

Hu

The eight ball is not neutral Hu. I am pretty sure the rules are BCAPL, at least that's what I'm hearing.

 

[Taco]

Joey:

"I say this, because I see this all the time in my 8-ball league -- guys that come in with shooting skills, but get their heads handed to them by either like-shooter-skilled (or even lesser skilled) 8-ball specialists."

Completely agree. I've seen highly skilled 9-ball players who rarely play 8-ball get toasted by much lesser skilled players because the latter are craftier and know the moves. Likewise, the 9-ball player with shooting skills but no 1-hole experience has no chance against an experienced 1-hole player.

In 9-ball, your strategy is simple -- you have a single object ball on the table that you're solely focused on.

Don't agree with this point. If you're solely focused on the object ball you'll never get shape on the next couple of balls. And if you don't examine the whole rack and take it into consideration before you start shooting, you're also toast. Yes, the order of the balls is predetermined, but getting on them is not always that simple.

Two different games, both great and challenging in their own ways.

 

[sfleinen]

[...]
Don't agree with this point. If you're solely focused on the object ball you'll never get shape on the next couple of balls. And if you don't examine the whole rack and take it into consideration before you start shooting, you're also toast. Yes, the order of the balls is predetermined, but getting on them is not always that simple.

Two different games, both great and challenging in their own ways.

Actually, that point was simplified to its barebones, to get at the underlying point. Of *course* it's not just about that ball, but position for the next, and the next, ...etc., until the game-winning ball -- the 9-ball -- is pocketed. But it's not like the 9-ball shooter is "overwhelmed" with possibilities and choices. Nope, he/she's got one ball on the table that he/she has to aim at (to hit) first. That's his/her sole purpose. It's not like he/she is on the 2-ball, but "see" a better pattern if he/she changed gears and went for the 4-ball as the object ball instead.

Yes, rotation pool is great in its own ways. In one way, it cuts down on the amount of thinking required (the pattern is predetermined for you -- no deciphering of patterns like one does in 8-ball or 14.1), and instead puts execution at the fore. You have to execute the predetermined pattern now. Rotation pool is great for developing and keeping one's shooting skills -- that's where the oft-used term "shooter" came from, afterall.

-Sean

 

[Taco]

Actually, that point was simplified to its barebones, to get at the underlying point. Of *course* it's not just about that ball, but position for the next, and the next, ...etc., until the game-winning ball -- the 9-ball -- is pocketed. But it's not like the 9-ball shooter is "overwhelmed" with possibilities and choices. Nope, he/she's got one ball on the table that he/she has to aim at (to hit) first. That's his/her sole purpose. It's not like he/she is on the 2-ball, but "see" a better pattern if he/she changed gears and went for the 4-ball as the object ball instead.

Yes, rotation pool is great in its own ways. In one way, it cuts down on the amount of thinking required (the pattern is predetermined for you -- no deciphering of patterns like one does in 8-ball or 14.1), and instead puts execution at the fore. You have to execute the predetermined pattern now. Rotation pool is great for developing and keeping one's shooting skills -- that's where the oft-used term "shooter" came from, afterall.

-Sean

Agreed. 9-ball = fewer choices. 8-ball = more choices. 14.1 = even more choices.

 

[JE54]

2nd ball break

I try the 2nd ball break and quite often I either scratch or the cb goes flying off the table. What's the correct way to make this break ? Does the exact positioning of the cb make a difference ?

 

[JohnnyOzone]

My 2 cents:

Practice by playing alot of straight pool.
There has been alot of discussion about breaking clusters. Straight pool will teach you when to go hard and when to go soft. How many times have you seen a cluster broken in straight pool where the balls go to the rail and back together, or break apart only to create new clusters somewhere else?
Straight pool is also great for learning correct patterns.

Regarding big pockets - the corner pockets play huge on a valley, but the side pockets are the devil. I try to shoot everything I can into the corners.

Regarding the difference between 8 and 9 ball:
In 9 ball your first few shots are usually the most difficult to get through due to traffic and then the rack gets easier. (note I said usually)
In 8 ball the first few shots are usually very easy and then the rack gets harder (especially on a bar box) due to tighter position windows, less options, etc.

Knocking in your opponent's ball is usually a hugely advantageous move. 8 ball is a weird game in that the guy with more balls on the table is usually the favorite.

 

[Diamond69]

I try the 2nd ball break and quite often I either scratch or the cb goes flying off the table. What's the correct way to make this break ? Does the exact positioning of the cb make a difference ?

Keep your cue level and use draw on the cue ball. I give lessons if you want me to stop by sometime.

 

[JE54]

I know that your supposed to use a level cue and low inside, but it still goes a flying. Possibly speed, other suggestions.
Looking for other thought's on this shot. Hey Diamond, you are quite funny. By the way I'll talk to you tommorow................

 

[Slide Rule]

Like neil mentioned, cluster manage with control. I prefer to not hit clusters very full so I know the cue wont get stuck on something. It seems the harder/fuller I hit a cluster, the likelihood of my cue sticking increases or the object ball gets stuck and stays clustered. And obviously try to keep 1 or more insurance balls available to recover from bad rolls.

If you are hitting a cluster slow, a slight amount of side on the CB creates separation of the object balls and CB. This results in a workable spread.

 

[JoeyA]

I know that your supposed to use a level cue and low inside, but it still goes a flying. Possibly speed, other suggestions.
Looking for other thought's on this shot. Hey Diamond, you are quite funny. By the way I'll talk to you tommorow................

I find that you don't have to hit the 2nd ball quite as hard as you normally hit the head ball. I generally avoid using side spin on the break, especially inside. The inside English may squirting the cue ball so that you are not hitting as much of the 2nd ball as you should, thereby causing the cue ball to bounce off of the 2nd ball and off of the table.

 

[Banks]

I know that your supposed to use a level cue and low inside, but it still goes a flying. Possibly speed, other suggestions.
Looking for other thought's on this shot. Hey Diamond, you are quite funny. By the way I'll talk to you tommorow................

Start with about half speed. The primary concern with the second ball break should be getting a solid hit, the balls should spread from there.

 

[JE54]

Thanks, I'll try your suggestions................

 

[renard]

Also if the 8 ball counts as a win on the break try breaking 3rd ball back...you will be surprised!

 

[sfleinen]

Low-outside on second-ball (break in 8-ball)

I find that you don't have to hit the 2nd ball quite as hard as you normally hit the head ball. I generally avoid using side spin on the break, especially inside. The inside English may squirting the cue ball so that you are not hitting as much of the 2nd ball as you should, thereby causing the cue ball to bounce off of the 2nd ball and off of the table.

Exactly. Call me strange, but I actually like low-OUTSIDE on a second ball break. For one thing, any squirt on the cue ball causes a more full hit (the opposite of "thinning" the second ball), and second, as the cue ball comes off the rack to the long side rail, the outside spin turns into "check spin" against the cushion and causes the cue ball to come back out to the middle of the table.

And you don't have to hit it hard -- just enough for the draw to do its job of holding the cue ball (preventing a scratch in the corner pocket) and for the cue ball to spin back out to the center of the table after contacting the long rail. This should be just a "pop" -- a snap of your grip hand going to its "Finish" position. The balls will spread nicely, and you'll get the 8-ball moving, to boot! (This happens not because the cue ball goes back into the rack as low-inside would do, but rather because one or two of the balls on the opposite side of the rack you hit with the cue ball, will go to the long rail and back into the rack area, "kicking" the 8-ball towards the side pocket.)

Low-outside on the second ball is my favorite 8-ball break. Give it a try!
-Sean

 

[JE54]

2nd ball break

I tried it with no english, worked very well.
Thanks, now I'll have to give it a whirl with a touch of outside.


For the 3rd ball, where are you hitting the cb ?