myths on Jerry Breiteth's dvd

K

kaznj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always believed that if you put draw on the cue ball that it put follow on the object ball. Jerry says this is false. It makes sense to me that if the cue ball is spinning back it would grab the ob and make it start to spin forward.

Dr. Dave and others what do you think.....?
 
There might be a very small amount of transfer (can't remember from Dr. Dave's and other information) but it's negligable for normal shots, especially since the object ball will attain normal "follow" as it begins to move away from impact and roll across the table. Now frozen combos are a different story...

Scott
 
kaznj said:
I always believed that if you put draw on the cue ball that it put follow on the object ball. Jerry says this is false. It makes sense to me that if the cue ball is spinning back it would grab the ob and make it start to spin forward.

Dr. Dave and others what do you think.....?
Click to expand...

The draw will put a little follow on the object ball, just as side spin puts a little of the opposite side spin on the object ball. The important point is "a little." Just as you cannot make an object ball come off the cushion at 45 degrees with transferred side, you cannot make the object ball follow the length of the table with transferred follow, nor can you make the object ball draw the length of the table off another object ball by using follow on the cue ball to transfer a bunch of draw to the object ball.

A little transfer, yes. In general the amount of spin transferred is only useful or noticeable on bank shots.
 
Joel...As Bob mentioned the action is so small it is relatively unimportant...much like the sidespin transfer myth. Definitely not as often, or to the extent that most people believe.

Scott Lee
poolknowledge.com

kaznj said:
I always believed that if you put draw on the cue ball that it put follow on the object ball. Jerry says this is false. It makes sense to me that if the cue ball is spinning back it would grab the ob and make it start to spin forward.

Dr. Dave and others what do you think.....?
Click to expand...
 
Neil said:
I noticed that on the DVD and have kept my mouth shut because I really couldn't believe that Jerry really thought that. Well, Jerry, and Bob, I have to disagree with you strongly.

I decided to go downstairs and do a test before I posted anything. Here's what I did- I put an ob on the center spot of my 7' table. (I have the center marked) I then froze another ob behind it aimed directly at the center pocket. Put the cb about a foot behind the two ob's. Hit 1/4 to the left of the back ob. That ob will go 3/4 diamonds farther up table than with no draw on the cb. In fact, it missed going in the side by about one ball width.

Next, same set up, except the cb is in line with the two frozen ob's. Using heavy draw, the back ob picked up enough forward spin to go to the end rail and back one diamond.

Knowing that the frozen ball can be alter dramatically from it's tangent line is a huge factor when playing frozen balls.

However, I DO agree that putting follow on the cb will result in very little difference on the ob. You can change it to come back from the tangent line a little, but not much. SO.... you can put a lot of follow on the ob using draw on the cb, but very little draw on the ob using follow on the cb.
Click to expand...

Don't freeze the two object balls. An entirely different phenomenon comes into play when the two object balls are frozen. This has been discussed several times under the general heading of making the double spot shot or the "ten times fuller" system.
 
I have to agree with Neil on this one.

When the balls are are frozen or close to frozen low or follow can be transfered to the first ball.

I have made a ton of caroms that were not exactly "on" using this technique.

Now if the balls are further apart, I would have to agree with the other posters.

John
 
look at the classic 1 pocket shot
2 balls frozen in line on the foot spot
draw and the right line makes the first ball
 
Bob Jewett said:
Don't freeze the two object balls. An entirely different phenomenon comes into play when the two object balls are frozen. This has been discussed several times under the general heading of making the double spot shot or the "ten times fuller" system.
Click to expand...

what is the 10 times fuller system??
 
I have to agree with Jerry & Bob & Scott here. Jerry is speaking of a lone object ball in the middle of the table. IF any top spin can be transferred it would be of little consequences. Might not even last more than the 1/4 the rotation of the object ball!!!
randyg
 
randyg said:
I have to agree with Jerry & Bob & Scott here. Jerry is speaking of a lone object ball in the middle of the table. IF any top spin can be transferred it would be of little consequences. Might not even last more than the 1/4 the rotation of the object ball!!!
randyg
Click to expand...

i agree....:smile:
 
bbb said:
what is the 10 times fuller system??
Click to expand...
It is a system that allows you to predict the path of the front object ball when two object balls are frozen. Among other shots, it covers the double spot shot which is common at one pocket. This was discussed a little while ago in another thread. Here is an article about it: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1996-02.pdf

When two object balls are frozen, the front ball will not normally go along the kiss line. It will go through some. Draw helps it to go through more.
 
Neil said:
Straight on, 1/16" apart. Still got the back ball to go to the end rail from center table.
Click to expand...
As I understand your description, it is like this diagram. Is that correct? What speed did you have to use?

CropperCapture[9].png
 
Bob Jewett said:
It is a system that allows you to predict the path of the front object ball when two object balls are frozen. Among other shots, it covers the double spot shot which is common at one pocket. This was discussed a little while ago in another thread. Here is an article about it: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1996-02.pdf

When two object balls are frozen, the front ball will not normally go along the kiss line. It will go through some. Draw helps it to go through more.
Click to expand...

thanks for the info
 
Neil said:
Here's my setup, Bob:

(Wei table crap)

Well, that worked real well, didn't it. Oh, well, I tried to show it.
Click to expand...
The Wei table is no longer useful. The error (no animated gif tool or some such) makes my browser crash sometimes. There are threads I can no longer view because of the bug.
 
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