Clarification: Sharking vs. Entertainment?

K

Ky Boy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been reading the threads associated with the Hatch/Dechaine match and am finding there is no clear divisional line as to what is consider sharking or entertainment. I felt it was a great match with both players fighting with vicious psychological warfare. I really don't think anyone expected anything different considering the history of these 2. Bad blood sells!! The same as Harriman/Schmidt!

You see, many pool fans would love to see Keith McCready back in the mix for the great entertainment he provides at the table. His pool game used to be as big as his personality and no one could work a room like Keith. I think many here would be in agreement to that. But what about his opponent he was playing at the time? Do you feel as though they were being sharked?

I posted in another thread that the comments regarding drug use/violence were of course disrespectful and think that both players could have used better judgement in that regard. But Mike and Dennis have a genuine disregard for one another and it showed in the match. And that is one of the biggest reasons it sold so well. Ralf and Toasty could not come close to making a match like this a success. WE have seen them play too many times and know exactly what to expect from them. Which is perfectly fine too. Professional and respectful to all involved. That is how they roll!

However, that is just it. Let players be who they are...good, bad or ugly! When fans always know what to expect from players it becomes boring. I love the purity of the game of pool and love to hear the balls clicking and hear the sound of the leather pocket as the ball smacks it just the right way. But I also love the unknown!! It seems everyone wants pool to be like golf...or is it they want pool to obtain the success of golf?

Let pool be what it is...it may never be a commercial success but it is still the greatest game on earth! Pool is raw...always has been and always will be! TAR captures the essence of what fans really love about pool. That is why there as successful as they are being in a limited market. I would suspect TAR sells more live streams than Accu-stats who produce only tournament coverage. Wonder why?

Point being...I loved TAR 25! Maybe I'm just sick and twisted like that but it the one of the most entertaining matches I have seen in a long time. For the same reason we would line up to see John and Danny battle it out. The personality conflict of course!! Good luck to TAR and future matches...that is my opinion I would pay to see Mike and Dennis play again...I bet it would sell more than this first one did!!

Would love to hear AZ's thoughts on the sharking vs entertainment?

DO you feel the NFL should penalize a player if he tells another as they are on the line of scrimmage he's going to run his a$$ over and rip his head off as he goes by?? Extreme, I know...but players must become stronger mentally to block sharking out. They are professionals...a professional realizes the mental aspects of the game and adjust accordingly! OR go home packing!
 
I think that during a match you should sit down and be quiet until it is your turn to shoot.
 
My opinion as a beginner pool player and not having seen the match, is, I don't like sharking. I want to see a competition of pool playing skills, not who is better at sharking.

Maybe I am ignorant because I am a beginner, but I aspire to increase my playing skills, not my ability to shark an opponent. Increase my mental game by being able to deal with pressure shots, pressure matches, keeping focus and ignoring any distractions around me.
 
Last edited:
sammylane12 said:
I think that during a match you should sit down and be quiet until it is your turn to shoot.
Click to expand...

It always amazes me how often I see guys wandering around while their opponent is at the table.

as players we need to learn to deal with sharking. There are already too many excuses for missing balls and losing matches.
Click to expand...

I also couldn't agree with this statement more. There will always be the idiots who love to talk to you while you are shooting. Or maybe the guy who yells across the bar to his buddy that just walked in.

In my league match last night I won the opening game and walked back to the team and sat down. One of the other guys asked me how I dealt with my opponent walking around while I was shooting and grabbing chalk from the table. I honestly didn't see it happen once. When it's my shot, if it's not on the table, it doesn't exist.
I still credit my improved focus to my complete disdain of country music. Once I learned to block out the *twang*, everything else went right along with it.
 
Tactful vs hateful

Ky Boy said:
I have been reading the threads associated with the Hatch/Dechaine match and am finding there is no clear divisional line as to what is consider sharking or entertainment. I felt it was a great match with both players fighting with vicious psychological warfare. I really don't think anyone expected anything different considering the history of these 2. Bad blood sells!! The same as Harriman/Schmidt!

You see, many pool fans would love to see Keith McCready back in the mix for the great entertainment he provides at the table. His pool game used to be as big as his personality and no one could work a room like Keith. I think many here would be in agreement to that. But what about his opponent he was playing at the time? Do you feel as though they were being sharked?

I posted in another thread that the comments regarding drug use/violence were of course disrespectful and think that both players could have used better judgement in that regard. But Mike and Dennis have a genuine disregard for one another and it showed in the match. And that is one of the biggest reasons it sold so well. Ralf and Toasty could not come close to making a match like this a success. WE have seen them play too many times and know exactly what to expect from them. Which is perfectly fine too. Professional and respectful to all involved. That is how they roll!

However, that is just it. Let players be who they are...good, bad or ugly! When fans always know what to expect from players it becomes boring. I love the purity of the game of pool and love to hear the balls clicking and hear the sound of the leather pocket as the ball smacks it just the right way. But I also love the unknown!! It seems everyone wants pool to be like golf...or is it they want pool to obtain the success of golf?

Let pool be what it is...it may never be a commercial success but it is still the greatest game on earth! Pool is raw...always has been and always will be! TAR captures the essence of what fans really love about pool. That is why there as successful as they are being in a limited market. I would suspect TAR sells more live streams than Accu-stats who produce only tournament coverage. Wonder why?

Point being...I loved TAR 25! Maybe I'm just sick and twisted like that but it the one of the most entertaining matches I have seen in a long time. For the same reason we would line up to see John and Danny battle it out. The personality conflict of course!! Good luck to TAR and future matches...that is my opinion I would pay to see Mike and Dennis play again...I bet it would sell more than this first one did!!

Would love to hear AZ's thoughts on the sharking vs entertainment?

DO you feel the NFL should penalize a player if he tells another as they are on the line of scrimmage he's going to run his a$$ over and rip his head off as he goes by?? Extreme, I know...but players must become stronger mentally to block sharking out. They are professionals...a professional realizes the mental aspects of the game and adjust accordingly! OR go home packing!
Click to expand...

I am also a fan of watching two colorful players go at it - untill it gets out of hand and one or both players go on tilt, then name calling starts. If we can hear every comment that each player is saying is when it can and does getugly. I think it needs to stay fairly positive for the sake of professionalism. I have given this a fair degree of thought and this is my opinion, if a viewer really loves the game then he does not mind watching two robotic players who rarely say a word. As for two players who are in a rivalry or personality conflict - I understand the build-up factor and all but if were not carefull the professionalism of the game can and will suffer. Bottom line here is it's ok to have some friendly banter that has a competative spirit - that keeps the game interesting, but I do think some like the drama end more than the true art and love of the game. In snooker they do not need the drama, maybe that is why the game is so well respected or maybe some Americans just like to be at war with each other - sadly this may be true. As far as TAR videos I was honored to be apart of their outfit, but I think they will find in the future that the love for the game needs to outweigh the drama and or sharking end. To allow the namecalling/sharking to just happen ie (no referree to stop) will only hurt the future of our game. I love the game but untill there are rules set in place TAR will continue to have problems, it's my view that the same fans and or promoters who would rather watch the players argue, shark, and or fight rather than play pool also enjoy watching COPS. That guy may be a great player but he has no personality at the table is a comment I once heard about a great player who had an uncanny habit of being in the winners circle at the end of a pro tournament. Just a thought.
 
Last edited:
Great post Danny! There ya have it folks...from the horse's mouth. That hopefully will kill the ideas of some here, that 'no holds barred' openended BS is "okay"...it's not...ever!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Ky Boy said:
I have been reading the threads associated with the Hatch/Dechaine match and am finding there is no clear divisional line as to what is consider sharking or entertainment.
Click to expand...

They're not mutually exclusive. Sharking can be entertaining.
 
I am all for sharking. It brings bad blood and starts a rivalry. This will bring more people to watch pool.

Notice Tom Cruise's character is much more exciting in the beginning of the movie where he talks smack and twirling his cue.....

versus

Later in the movie, he was another boring pool player.
 
dom_poppa said:
I am all for sharking. It brings bad blood and starts a rivalry. This will bring more people to watch pool.

Notice Tom Cruise's character is much more exciting in the beginning of the movie where he talks smack and twirling his cue.....

versus

Later in the movie, he was another boring pool player.
Click to expand...

I will play Tom Cruise any day.
 
As a viewer, I could watch them get into a fistfight and it'd be more interesting than seeing someone go one rail with low right. There's already a lifetime of top-level pool video out there. So when I watch TAR25 instead of, say, a random bclub video on youtube... I'm looking to see how these specific two players interact.

I'm not really that invested in which of the two is better, 3 sets probably doesn't determine that anyway.

As a player, all I can say is... Sammy nailed it. Even just playing for funsies, I find it intolerable when people talk, move, etc... If I were playing for thousands of dollars, I'd be inclined to say if you even start to stand up while I'm down on a game ball, you just forfeited the set.

Not sure if Justin or anyone else "needs to" step in and make the players act professional. Justin's running a business and hopefully it's been good for him and good for pool. I dunno if his ambition is to be ESPN2 with clean players and clean commentary.
 
With close friends we really get on eachother sometime for the fun of it but if it is a tournament it's very different.

Act like a gentelman and show some class. Respect the opponent and when you win one game don't go nuts act like you have been there before, show respect and have a little class. Today it seems like the character set of a true gentelman is fadeing away.

My favorite story in sports Is the nfl championship game between the packers and cowboys known as the "ice bowl temperatures were at a record low -15degrees it is considered to be one of the greatest games in history. QB Bret Starr scored the winning touch down with no time left and what did he do after he won he trotted off the field and celebrated with his teammates. There was no boasting or dancing or rubbing it in he showed miles of class instead.
 
Professional match vs. gambling

These two are the opposites in my view, in gambling there are no rules unless the two players have terms. In a professional match both players get paid, gambling is very sketchy and full of seedy characters who are dishonest. I once played in a TAR match and the fellow I played was saying we would both make money (professional match). In the second match-up two or three days before the rematch he went back on his word and said there would be no saver like before (pulling a shark move before the match ever got started). Some enemies will lead you to believe it's a professional match when in reality it's gambling - hence The Art of war (poor book that the war piggies love). I do think there are many who cannot play there best unless they don't like there opponent. I would rather compete against a stranger in the finals than say my best friend but I don't have to have drama or conflict with my opponent to play well.

I once heard a player interview and the commentator said how do you feel after you 'beat' him, the players response opened alot of doors for me. He said I did not 'beat' him - I played a good game and when I play well I win alot. This player was what I like to call a student of the game and not an ego-maniac looking to hustle and or shark his opponent in the hope of beating him. I would add that there are some World Champions I know who never in there life bet a dime on a pool match - these are the true professionals in my view. If a promoter is going to film a gambling match and present this to the public in a live stream - the two players should get along with each other - and if they don't then there needs to be a referee in place so the drama does not get out of hand. I say this for the sake of some hope that there could be a hint of professionalism left in the game.
 
Last edited:
IMO 'entertainment' is what happens when someone is not shooting at the table. Between racks, during player transitions, during breaks etc is the time to talk, woof, or insult someone's mama. Sharking is what happens when you do any of those things while your opponent is shooting, in a direct attempt to interrupt his concentration or his rhythm.
I do also agree that - to a point- you should be able to tune most of it out, pool after all is a sport played mainly in social environments that are usually not quiet. Most of the time when I am at tournaments, I never notice people that walk by the table while I'm shooting, but if you walk up and stop because you don't want to distract me....too late you just did because you did something unexpected that caught my attention. :)
 
This is an interesting thread and most responders have firm views ---but let's take an open minded review and just consider breaking the paradigm.

Pool has steadily lost the general publics interest since the waining of The Hustler. Pool is a great sport but there are so many more options available for entertainment now. Players love to play but spectators have lost enthusiasm.

The paradigm is be respectful while the player is shooting. A break in the paradigm would be to have the players and especially the fans be more actively involved such as in the NFL, NHL, NBA, NCAA, Olympics, and on. Golf on the other hand maintains quiet respectability and is successful.

The Keith McCreadys and Minnesota Fats of pool have always generated a great deal of enthusiasm that brought crowds any time they came into a pool hall. They showed respect for their opponents but engaged the crowds. In the USA the crowds were expected to be still and quiet. Some of you may have examples of various crowd behaviors in other parts of the world. I would like to hear these.

What are your opinions of a more lively player/fan engagement to increase the popularity of pool?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top