Aiming with the edge of the CB.

[Mikjary]

Mike,
I suppose that you are using the edge of the ferrule closest to the edge of the OB and not the other.:wink:

When the CB and OB are closer together, you aim a sixteeth or eight of the diameter of the ferrule or inches?

If you are saying to use the fraction of the ferrule, then this makes sense for the visuals would have paralleel lines converging at the vanishing point so at 4 diamonds, the edge of the ferrule works, but when the CB and OB are closer, there needs to be a separation of the edge of the ferrule to the edge of the OB because of the visual image at the focal plane.

Thanks.:smile:

LAMas,

I use the side of the ferrule in the direction of the cut. Less than 4 diamonds you have to move off the object ball with whatever increment you like to use...millimeters, fractions of inches, different color hairs, or ferrule segments. :smile:

This is not my tip. I'm just passing it along. It's been around a long time.

Best,
Mike

 

[Mikjary]

I tried it, Mike -- it worked pretty nicely on the long shots! On shorter shots I had less success, maybe because I'm too used to aiming almost edge to edge on those, or didn't quickly determine exactly how much off the OB to align the edge of the ferrule. Experience teaches, eh?

Thanks.

After you use it for a while you can razor cut the long thin cuts you use to play safe. Scares people when they see it. :smile: Nothing more than using a blending of the eyes as LAMas said.

You know, you better watch out! If you can do this technique, you are actually starting to see how the Mullen Method works. Horrors!!!:wink: I can explain it to you later after you calm down. :smile:

Best,
Mike

 

[AtLarge]

... You know, you better watch out! If you can do this technique, you are actually starting to see how the Mullen Method works. Horrors!!!:wink: I can explain it to you later after you calm down. :smile:

Best,
Mike

Yes, I certainly did think of my prior debunking of the Mullen Method. But you've really just confirmed that the Mullen Method does not work as claimed on most shots (at least not without some "weird" eye or head position). I.e., for shots with less than 4+ diamonds of CB/OB separation, you are not aiming the edge of the ferrule at the intended contact point but somewhere beyond the edge of the OB. That's not what the Mullen Method says to do.

But I am intrigued by how well it seemed to work for me last night on the long shots. I'll explore it further for sure!

 

[Mikjary]

You are absolutely right about the Mullen Method. It is only geometrically accurate for a small percentage of angles. Your objective "debunking" was actually a defining value for me and helped in my further study of the system. It is simple once you understand where the eyes have to be.

When using Perfect Aim techniques that Geno has shown, the ferrule lines up on the object ball. I use both ways to look at shots. Cte and Pro One get your eyes in the same place Geno talks about. There is only one place.

Best,
Mike

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...if my cue shaft aimed at the center of the CB is not parallel to the line of aim from the edge of the CB to the DD point, I will miss.

I always sight directly through the CB's center, no matter where the contact point or my cue is, and can always tell whether or not my cue is parallel with the CB/GB centerline, where the CB's edge is pointed, etc. I always just took that ability for granted. Guess I'm luckier to have it than I realized.

pj
chgo

 

[Mikjary]

I always sight directly through the CB's center, no matter where the contact point or my cue is, and can always tell whether or not my cue is parallel with the CB/GB centerline, where the CB's edge is pointed, etc. I always just took that ability for granted. Guess I'm luckier to have it than I realized.

pj
chgo

Do you see this standing up or when you're down...or both? Do longer distances require more of an effort to visualize?

Best,
Mike

 

[genomachino]

Sounds like you know your stuff............

You are absolutely right about the Mullen Method. It is only geometrically accurate for a small percentage of angles. Your objective "debunking" was actually a defining value for me and helped in my further study of the system. It is simple once you understand where the eyes have to be.

When using Perfect Aim techniques that Geno has shown, the ferrule lines up on the object ball. I use both ways to look at shots. Cte and Pro One get your eyes in the same place Geno talks about. There is only one place.

Best,
Mike

Hi there Mike,
Isn't it nice to just get there and know how to get there.

Great job there. See ya in the near future. I'm on the move......

 

[LAMas]

I need to clarify my statement I guess.

When you are in this Perfect position it is easy to see the parallel line, easy to see if the stoke is straight, easy to have the stance in the right position, easy to have the body in the right position. It kind of takes care of everything.

When you are in this Perfect position you can envision exactly how much of the cue ball will hit the object ball. When you see this you are right in line with the parallel lines we are talking about in this thread.

This is geometrically correct with the diagram but getting the eyes looking on these parallels and keeping them there is what ity is all about as far as aiming.

Once a person learns how to do this there is no telling them anything different.

we all get there from time to time when it seems like we can't miss a ball. It's just really nice to know how to get there all the time.

To make it any clearer you'ld have to call me for the Free Perfect Aim phone lesson.

Then you'll know and probably play at a little higher level immediately.

No kidding

That is what I was proffering. I contend that if your eyes are 2.25" apart and can stroke your cue exactly between them by using your chin or your nose; you can sight the edge of the CB parallel to your cue that is aimed at the center of the CB.

I have tried pivot systems but find them to be at the mercy of the visuals that may not be exactly perceived by the shooter.

I have tried visualizing the eclipse of the CB to the OB to contact the point on the OB that sends it to the pocket/target, but that can be affected/distorted by a parallax view.

In another thread about one eyed shooters, Sean contends that this can be an advantage to aiming because aiming for them is not subject to the vagaries of parallax.

If your cue is between your eyes and 1.125" from the aiming eye looking at the edge of the CB, That is 1.125" to the side of the center of the CB, that would be as accurate as aiming the center of the ferrule or the edge of the ferrule. This could be more accurate than pivot systems or those that require parallel shifting.

Unless one is gifted like PJ, and can see aiming the cue parallel to the contact point on the CB to the contact point on the OB, then one needs other methods of aiming that are/is more cogent.

Thanks.:smile:

 

[LAMas]

I always sight directly through the CB's center, no matter where the contact point or my cue is, and can always tell whether or not my cue is parallel with the CB/GB centerline, where the CB's edge is pointed, etc. I always just took that ability for granted. Guess I'm luckier to have it than I realized.

pj
chgo

You are blessed for sure.:smile:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I always sight directly through the CB's center, no matter where the contact point or my cue is, and can always tell whether or not my cue is parallel with the CB/GB centerline, where the CB's edge is pointed, etc. I always just took that ability for granted. Guess I'm luckier to have it than I realized.

pj
chgo

Do you see this standing up or when you're down...or both? Do longer distances require more of an effort to visualize?

Best,
Mike

I see it both standing and down in shooting position (although not as accurately when standing, of course). Longer distances do require somewhat more effort, but not because seeing parallel lines is more difficult, just because of the general need to be more precise at longer distances.

I recognize this isn't a universal ability - I have to remind myself when coaching/teaching that people see things differently (I consider myself knowledgable but not the best teacher).

pj
chgo

 

[AtLarge]

... On thin shots, I cut the paint off of the ball by aiming the side of my ferrule to the edge of the object ball. This technique works best when you are 4+ diamonds apart. It becomes necessary to aim a sixteenth or eighth off of the object ball as you get less than four diamonds apart. ...

Mike, I spent a bit more time with this technique of aiming the side of the ferrule at the edge of the object ball for thin cuts. Here are my current thoughts.

Assume we're shooting a real thin cut shot, one where the center of the ghost ball would be almost half a ball off the edge of the OB.

When the CB/OB separation is large, say 5 or more diamonds, the OB looks much smaller than the CB. In fact, with a 13 mm ferrule, the apparent width of the ferrule in shooting position behind the CB is approximately the same as the apparent width of the OB down table. So when you aim the side of the ferrule at the edge of the OB, you are essentially also pointing the center of the ferrule at approximately the center of the ghost ball -- just where you need to! However, it's just an approximation for accurately aiming CB edge to OB edge (or ferrule center to ghost ball center), and its effectiveness should vary as the apparent widths of the ferrule and the OB change with changes in the amount of CB/OB separation.

But when the CB/OB separation is not large, the apparent width of the ferrule in shooting position behind the CB is smaller than the apparent width of the OB. So aiming the side of the ferrule at the edge of the OB is then not the same as aiming the center of the ferrule a half ball off the edge of the OB, and the method doesn't work (all such shots would be undercut). As you say, you personally aim "a sixteenth or eighth off of the object ball" for such shots. In fact, I'd think the apparent amount to aim the side of the ferrule off the OB edge increases as the CB/OB separation decreases.

 

[Mikjary]

Mike, I spent a bit more time with this technique of aiming the side of the ferrule at the edge of the object ball for thin cuts. Here are my current thoughts.

Assume we're shooting a real thin cut shot, one where the center of the ghost ball would be almost half a ball off the edge of the OB.

When the CB/OB separation is large, say 5 or more diamonds, the OB looks much smaller than the CB. In fact, with a 13 mm ferrule, the apparent width of the ferrule in shooting position behind the CB is approximately the same as the apparent width of the OB down table. So when you aim the side of the ferrule at the edge of the OB, you are essentially also pointing the center of the ferrule at approximately the center of the ghost ball -- just where you need to! However, it's just an approximation for accurately aiming CB edge to OB edge (or ferrule center to ghost ball center), and its effectiveness should vary as the apparent widths of the ferrule and the OB change with changes in the amount of CB/OB separation.

But when the CB/OB separation is not large, the apparent width of the ferrule in shooting position behind the CB is smaller than the apparent width of the OB. So aiming the side of the ferrule at the edge of the OB is then not the same as aiming the center of the ferrule a half ball off the edge of the OB, and the method doesn't work (all such shots would be undercut). As you say, you personally aim "a sixteenth or eighth off of the object ball" for such shots. In fact, I'd think the apparent amount to aim the side of the ferrule off the OB edge increases as the CB/OB separation decreases.

You are definitely seeing the shot at a distance correctly. Take this approach one step further. Can you cut balls equally well to the left and the right? Answering this question will eventually speed up the learning curve for thin cuts at closer distances. Not trying to confuse anything, but one step at a time to get you to see the stick aiming method in its simplest form. :smile:

Best,
Mike

 

[AtLarge]

You are definitely seeing the shot at a distance correctly. Take this approach one step further. Can you cut balls equally well to the left and the right? Answering this question will eventually speed up the learning curve for thin cuts at closer distances. Not trying to confuse anything, but one step at a time to get you to see the stick aiming method in its simplest form. :smile:

Best,
Mike

I don't really want to do "one step at a time" with many back-and-forth posts here in public about my own shooting. So please just cut to the chase, which would be to explain how you make this work consistently for thin cuts for which the CB/OB separation is not large. I'll go ahead and guess what I think you may be talking about; you can confirm or refute what I guess.

For a very thin cut to the right with the balls not many diamonds apart, I'm guessing that you are putting your right eye on or close to the edge-to-edge line. This might move your head a bit to the left of where it would otherwise be. From this somewhat shifted-to-the-left eye position, the right edge of the ferrule (when the stick is pointed through the center of the CB at the center of the ghost ball) appears to aim closer to the left edge of the OB than it otherwise would. So, the upshot would be -- for real thin cuts to the right, just put your right eye on or close to the edge-to-edge line and aim the right edge of the ferrule just off the left edge of the OB.

For a very thin cut to the left, swap "left" and "right" everywhere in the above paragraph.

Right? Wrong?

[P.S. In answer to your question, I'm not aware of any personal tendency to miss more often on cuts in one direction vs. the other, but I haven't kept any such statistics.]