Gold Crown 3 Problem

[Dartman]

At this point I am starting to feel like there is no other way, other than to start over as LCCS said. Say I ask for new slate, and new rails for the rubber. How much should I expect to pay for that?

Dude - after 8 years I'd suggest you ask Blatt if they would replace the table or do what's necessary to get it to play correctly.
Obviously they are aware that the table has problems so it doesn't hurt to ask.

To sell it is nothing more then passing a problem on to someone else unless you plan to inform a buyer of the table problems.

 

[Bambu]

Many thanks again to all of you. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet, but I will probably continue with Blatt. I'm going upstate for about a week, but I will let you guys know what happens. Nothing but a crappy 6 footer up there, but I guess its better than nothing!

 

[PMS]

This is a good read, thanks for the post

 

[OTLB]

I will come fix that table if you can't get anyone.

 

[Bambu]

Thanks very much, OTLB. I am still hoping to resolve this with Blatt, but its great to have options. PMS, thanks for your support!

 

[Billh]

So this weekend - 2 of the best players in the world were giving lessons in my room. Nick Varner, and Johnny Archer. I have GCIII's that were bought new in 1984, but are maintained as new. I asked Archer what he thought about my tables, and his response was classic. " These are some of the best tables I have ever played on." It's not the micro angle, ikt's the TABLE. Johnny Archer liked my tables - enough said...

 

[realkingcobra]

So this weekend - 2 of the best players in the world were giving lessons in my room. Nick Varner, and Johnny Archer. I have GCIII's that were bought new in 1984, but are maintained as new. I asked Archer what he thought about my tables, and his response was classic. " These are some of the best tables I have ever played on." It's not the micro angle, ikt's the TABLE. Johnny Archer liked my tables - enough said...

I fail to understand what this post has to do with this thread, I've set up tables that both players have played on, and they also played great

Glen

 

[Bambu]

Hello again Glen, and all. I didnt want to leave anyone who read about my table without hearing the ending. As I last left off, Blatt replaced the 8 year old k-66 rubber they originally gave me, for free(new k-55's). But after the job, they took my rails back again because there was random low spots all over 5 of 6 rails. (I checked with a rail gauge.)

Blatt inspected the new rubber they installed, and determined that my rails are warped. I thought about buying new rails, the same way I did when I bought the table($800). But I was told GC III rails are no longer available from Brunswick. Only a custom job could be done, which would not be cost effective(2k). The best they could do was shim up the low spots. It does much play better now, but still not as it should.

So Blatt gave me crappy rubber, but I doubt they gave me warped rails. Its probably my own fault for over insulating the 3 car garage, and not regulating high summer temps. When I built it I installed plenty of baseboard heat, but never regulated the A/C during summer.....I just turned it on as needed. Time to invest in a temperature control for my A/C unit.

So I'm not sure how happy I am about this. I appreciate what Blatt did for me, but I still feel like I'm playing on a tainted table. Maybe its all in my head, but I might just sell this table. Much thanks to all who helped me out. It took me 8 years to figure out my k-66 problem. And I never would have, without the help of Glen, Dartman, and AZ.

-Dave Manasseri
BCA Instructor

 

[ROB.M]

superspeed

if u put anything besides the proper brunswick rail cushion that came off the brunswick table u are silly....

brunswick superspeed is great cushion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyiDDhNaczw

 

[Bambu]

I hear you, but it wasnt me. Not sure why they used k-66 to begin with. I guess because its cheaper.

 

[realkingcobra]

I hear you, but it wasnt me. Not sure why they used k-66 to begin with. I guess because its cheaper.

Because they didn't know any better that's why. AND, Brunswick Superspeed is a gamble, you don't know how long they're going to last. Artemis cushions, now that's a whole different story:grin:

 

[sausage]

i heard that rails are all gum rubber so what's the difference?

 

[Bambu]

Resurrected Thread: Thank you again, RealKingCobra and AZB!

Dave Manasseri here, BCA instructor from Queens. I am now bowing down to all of you, kneeling even! With the help of Glen and this site, I was able to get Blatt Billiards to repair my table after 10 years of trying.

10 years ago I bought a reconditioned gold crown 3 from Blatt. Played nice, but slow. I complained, but they said it was ok. I spent the next 8 years looking for a mechanic to explain why, and verify that my table played slow. I must have had 5 or 6 guys come look at it, and all of them said I was nuts. "Nothing wrong with the table man, it plays fine." I roll my eyes, and press on in search of somebody who knows how a gold crown 3 should play.

Then I asked a well known poster, Cornerman Fred about it....and he sent me here. Finally, I found voices of reason. Glen and Dartman knew what my problem was, without even looking at the table. Wrong rubber, end of story. Whoever put that rubber on should be smacked around like the 3 stooges.

I took this enlightening info directly to Brunswick, who verified that a gold crown 3 gets k-55(not k-66 which is what they gave me). After a lo-o-o-ong struggle with Blatt, they took back my rails and mounted some new k-55's on them. Finally, the table played the way it should have in the first place(so I thought).

After playing on it awhile I noticed ball hop. So I ordered myself a rail gauge, and sure enough, the rubber were not straight. The nose height was all over the place, a disaster. I complained, so they tried to shove some walnut shims in the low spots. I didnt think that would work, and I was right.

After that it took me another year and change to battle Blatt again, and eventually win, again. This time they gave me a replacement set of used rails, and mounted diamond rubber on it. I didnt ask for Diamond rubber, they just gave it to me. I asked for k-55 the last time they did the job, don't know what made them do that. I played with crooked rubber for over a year, but I can't complain because they didnt charge me. The table plays very well now with the diamond rubber.

Through it all, Glen helped me out over the phone as much as humanly possible. And, he did all that for me without knowing me from a hole in the wall. Thanks again Glen, I owe you a big fat steak when you come to NY!

 

[The Turk]

Whats this? Is every body playing nice?????

 

[realkingcobra]

Whats this? Is every body playing nice?????

That's because some people are stating to realize we're starting to pull together as mechanics...which is making it harder and harder to pull the wool over the eyes of some customers...when they have us for back up

 

[realkingcobra]

Dave Manasseri here, BCA instructor from Queens. I am now bowing down to all of you, kneeling even! With the help of Glen and this site, I was able to get Blatt Billiards to repair my table after 10 years of trying.

10 years ago I bought a reconditioned gold crown 3 from Blatt. Played nice, but slow. I complained, but they said it was ok. I spent the next 8 years looking for a mechanic to explain why, and verify that my table played slow. I must have had 5 or 6 guys come look at it, and all of them said I was nuts. "Nothing wrong with the table man, it plays fine." I roll my eyes, and press on in search of somebody who knows how a gold crown 3 should play.

Then I asked a well known poster, Cornerman Fred about it....and he sent me here. Finally, I found voices of reason. Glen and Dartman knew what my problem was, without even looking at the table. Wrong rubber, end of story. Whoever put that rubber on should be smacked around like the 3 stooges.

I took this enlightening info directly to Brunswick, who verified that a gold crown 3 gets k-55(not k-66 which is what they gave me). After a lo-o-o-ong struggle with Blatt, they took back my rails and mounted some new k-55's on them. Finally, the table played the way it should have in the first place(so I thought).

After playing on it awhile I noticed ball hop. So I ordered myself a rail gauge, and sure enough, the rubber were not straight. The nose height was all over the place, a disaster. I complained, so they tried to shove some walnut shims in the low spots. I didnt think that would work, and I was right.

After that it took me another year and change to battle Blatt again, and eventually win, again. This time they gave me a replacement set of used rails, and mounted diamond rubber on it. I didnt ask for Diamond rubber, they just gave it to me. I asked for k-55 the last time they did the job, don't know what made them do that. I played with crooked rubber for over a year, but I can't complain because they didnt charge me. The table plays very well now with the diamond rubber.

Through it all, Glen helped me out over the phone as much as humanly possible. And, he did all that for me without knowing me from a hole in the wall. Thanks again Glen, I owe you a big fat steak when you come to NY!

Well, Blatt Billiards did screw up your GC3 afterall, I should know...I fixed it up the right way. Yes, they DID use the Artemis K66 profile cushions, and they did cut the front 1/4" of the sub-rail off...added new wood to correct the bevel so set the nose height to 1 7/16"....BUT, they also removed all the capture nuts from the rails, replaced them with stamped out sheet metal 3 screw nut plates you'd find on a Gandy pool table, which were also over tightened causing them to bulge down on the bottom side...which in turn caused the rails to sit on the nut plates instead of the rail foot print on the slate...which changed the nose height, and caused the rails to rock when balls were banked into them. Then they double faced the facings, which were rock hard...so that if a ball was hit into the point of the cushions...it STOPPED right there...as in, no BOUNCE what-so-ever!

Blatt Billiards may do well selling pool tables, but their expert service work is in the crapper!!!

Dave, how's that table of yours playing now?

Glen

 

[PUTT4DACA$$H]

Blatt put the wrong rubber on?

I just read this thread for the first time and this was on the first page of seven?

I havent measured yet, but I am certain I have k-66 rubber. I asked for k-66 when I bought it.... it says so on the reciept. At the time I just wanted the best rails I could get, but didnt know the gold crowns werent made for k-66's. (IMHO).

Not tryin to be a jerk and I'm glad you got your table playing correctly but
BLATT custom built exactly what you wanted!!!!!

 

[realkingcobra]

I just read this thread for the first time and this was on the first page of seven?



Not tryin to be a jerk and I'm glad you got your table playing correctly but
BLATT custom built exactly what you wanted!!!!!

Gordon, there's no loss of pride to come right out and tell a customer that they're not capable of doing the kind of work that needs to be done the right way, compared to doing the upgrade wrong and hacking up a set of rails just to make a sale. Look at the pictures of what Blatt did to these rails...instead of doing the work right and reinstalling the Brunswick capture nuts in oder to mount the rails to the slate.

Glen

 

[Bambu]

I know it looks like I said I asked for k-66, and I guess I did. But that was because the owner of Blatt at the time(Rick) said k-66 was the fast type rubber. At the time, I knew very little about tables, nothing at all about cushions. All I knew was that I wanted a fast gold crown with simonis, similar to a pool room table. I even ordered it with simonis 760, just to make sure it was fast enough.

Even if they used k-66 it wouldnt have been so bad if they did it right. I mean, is a consistent nose height too much to ask for, from a brunswick dealer? Even after redoing the rails twice, all they did was the same shoddy work all over again. They even tried to raise the low spots up with walnut shims. Meanwhile, the low spots were the only areas where the rails were bolted to the table. Did they plan on getting a shim under a bolt? I cant imagine what they were thinking, other than "ok, this will shut him up."

 

[ROB.M]

Table

Gordon, there's no loss of pride to come right out and tell a customer that they're not capable of doing the kind of work that needs to be done the right way, compared to doing the upgrade wrong and hacking up a set of rails just to make a sale. Look at the pictures of what Blatt did to these rails...instead of doing the work right and reinstalling the Brunswick capture nuts in oder to mount the rails to the slate.

Glen

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In the picture of the bottom side of the rail showing the Artemis cushion, has someone replaced wood previously?