Just wondering how well you play.Im not trying to start anything here just curious because of your statment.Btw people can get used to just about anything and play good.:wink:
Low Deflection shafts
- Thread starter 3andstop
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Just wondering how well you play.Im not trying to start anything here just curious because of your statment.Btw people can get used to just about anything and play good.:wink:
Hmmm, maybe I'm all wet with what a LD shaft is supposed to do.
Example, a standard type straight pool break shot between racks with the break ball sitting about midway along the side of the rack and about 6 or so inches away from it. The CB is at about center table.
Problem is you end up with little to no angle the wrong way. The only choice is a hard force follow with inside english to go two rails, doubling the corner pocket with the CB an into the rack from behind.
When I have to really ramp up and shoot these shots, I have to consciously adjust for the CB deflecting or squirting or whatever the vernacular is to avoid over cutting it into the bottom rail.
Its not that I can't make the shot a high percentage, but if there is really a shaft that lets you just shoot the shot loaded up with high inside and aim like you were slow rolling it in ..... I'm down for one of those suckers.
Thing is I never really believed it and just now I'm so curious if its true that I'm ready to spend the money to find out.
The Predator Z2 comes the closest to providing this capability of all the LD shafts I've tried. I personally preferred the size and taper of the 314 (long pro taper), so I went the 314 route, then the 314-2. The Z2 has noticeably lower deflection. You can load up with ridiculous amounts of english and still make the ball easily. I currently play with the OB Classic. I just love the feel of the hit. The deflection is pretty comparable to the 314-2, though perhaps a hair more in the OB. Both Tiger and Mezz seemed to deflect more. I liked the Mezz WD700 quite a lot...very nice feel. It deflected quite a bit more than my 314-2 at the time, so I passed. Tiger did not have especially low deflection to me. The feel was decent. I guess the Tiger sales guy just turned me off with his false claims. I could see some really liking it though.
Overall if you really want to know what LD feels like, borrow someone's Z2 Predator. Fire in some inside english shots. It is a LOT of fun!!
KMRUNOUT
that was my point exactly. You can play well with anything.
I play alright, I'm no world beater, but I've had great teachers.
The smaller shaft diameter is by far the biggest squirt reducing feature of those. Sounds like medium squirt reduction overall.
If you had less deflection you'd probably shoot better. I'll leave it to you whether that means you flat out can't shoot.
I can list all the really important ones pretty easily: end mass.
Different players get different amounts of benefit from it. Some pass up the opportunity to find out.
pj
chgo
We know where the bridge is, but the softness of the hand often causes small errors not to be on a pivot like you are suggesting, but more like a parallel shift. In other words, if the stroke arm is slightly off, the bridge wont force the cue to pivot on the bridge because there is a little bit of room for play in the bridge hand. In this case, a ld shaft will shoot the ball closer to the intended point than a standard shaft.
after 30 years I finally bit the bullet.... and figured, well, if I don't like it, I will just sell it on Ebay, and the whole thing would only cost me a couple of bucks.....
Went to see Stan Shuffet for the weekend and he shoots with an LD shaft... he let me try his and I felt immediate difference while using English.... not more "rattles", cause the ball was going where I was aiming (regardless of my personal aiming systtem)...
So, I finally decided to buy one and went with OB becuase they are made in the US. But I'm sure all the LD cues are good....But the ball was going down the middle of the pocket much frequently and less rattles.
I wish I had done this years ago, but I"m what you call a skeptic too..... using English for long shots is easy, straight in shots are better too cause even if you don't hit perfectly center, the cueball is not "pushed" off course....
If you are already at shortstop level, or better, probably won't help you get better, but for us mortals that are not there yet....it's the nuts.....
Went to see Stan Shuffet for the weekend and he shoots with an LD shaft... he let me try his and I felt immediate difference while using English.... not more "rattles", cause the ball was going where I was aiming (regardless of my personal aiming systtem)...
So, I finally decided to buy one and went with OB becuase they are made in the US. But I'm sure all the LD cues are good....But the ball was going down the middle of the pocket much frequently and less rattles.
I wish I had done this years ago, but I"m what you call a skeptic too..... using English for long shots is easy, straight in shots are better too cause even if you don't hit perfectly center, the cueball is not "pushed" off course....
If you are already at shortstop level, or better, probably won't help you get better, but for us mortals that are not there yet....it's the nuts.....
i'll second that. followed by the mezz hybrid shaft (1st gen. the alpha is good but the 1st gen is better)
there's a cue maker right here on az that makes a LD shaft that plays as good as the original predator 314 shafts. little stiffer with a lot of feed back. Check out his stuff his name is bdcues.
Thanks to everyone so far for all the feedback. I found KMRUNOUT's post interesting regarding the Z2 Predator.
I'm not familiar with all the different shafts and tapers. I'm currently used to a long 20" pro taper at about 12.75 to 12.50, I'm most interested in the kind of low deflection KMRUNOUT speaks of regarding this Z2.
Can anyone elaborate on the 314's taper vs the Z2 as well as any of the other highly recommended shafts?
thanks!
It's the SS360 right? He claims these shafts are over 4 ounces!!! Sounds
like I spent too much on my last WD700 $246! Ouch!!
WOW i love mezz products and cues. they're what i cut my teeth on wheni first started playing. but they've raised their prices so much its sick!!! i remember when those shafts sold for 150-170. it wasn't that long ago. a mezz sneaky with a WD shaft was under 300 just a couple years ago.
But i digress. yeah that's the shaft i'm talking about. it hits way better than the WD700. not as whippy and just feels better in general. the one i got to try was over 4 oz
I know the US dollar is crap but... A zzsp used to be $275, which may have been a bit low. FF a few years.. $420!! Hate to see Mezz get as high
as Schon.. Those are stupid expensive..
In an earlier post I mentioned dia & tapers & the need to know in order to compare. Of course mfgs say how great their product is but do not give specs other than tip dia. Its a sore spot with me but here is the info on a low mileage 314.2. Original tip size is about 12.75. My 314-2 is .497 at 6" back its .503, at 12" back its .515 & at 16" its .550. Don't have a Z2 but it starts at 11.75 and grows rather fast, more conical taper.
When people say pro taper it can mean anything from straight to a gradual growth in taper like the 3.14-2. Anyway find a conversion table inches to mm - free on the web & convert it. Now if you can find 1 Z2 user to give you the taper your set. Good luck with that most just say IDK, its stiff. LOL
Rod
He's playing with a Cuetec R-360, right? What's the basis for your claim that its "the 'worst/cheapest' LD shaft out there"?
For you, I wouldn't bother. If your game is 50 years old and you can hit all of the ball around the clock face, pocket the object ball and get position, then there really is no point for you to consider switching.
Maybe someone would like to send you one for trial on the other hand because you might be the perfect candidate to prove or disprove the benefit of switching.
Freddie <~~~ thInks 3andstop might become 8andout or 1anddone
TheThaiger
Banned
When I was looking 2 years ago a ZZSP was $268 and their break cue was $218.
I thought they were too expensive!
as stiff or stiffer than their alpha shaft? i'm rocking the alpha right now and i'm happy with it. being the weirdo i am though i wouldn't mind it being a little stiffer.
what butt are you using it on? United joint or the wavy one? any chance you'll post a pic for me?
Ive played extensively with OB1, OB2, OB Classic Pro, Z, Z*2, BK2 (yes, as my player) 314 (pre-cat), and 314*2.
Ive also rotated virtually every tip imaginable. Various hardnesses (generally staying closest to the 'harder' tips), layered, standard, etc...
I can tell you how each of them feel to me and what the differences are in my opinion. There are certainly differences in feel and subtle differences in how they handle. You should find the combination that is comfortable for you and your game.
All of the shafts I mention above perform well... If you take the time to learn how they handle. When it comes down to it, its very similiar to driving different race cars, and that analogy holds up well when talking about changing shafts.
If your interested in my opinion on the differences of each of the shafts I mentioned above, I can give them to you. In essense, I would recommend getting something that fits your individual game to make the transition as smooth as possible.
Ive also rotated virtually every tip imaginable. Various hardnesses (generally staying closest to the 'harder' tips), layered, standard, etc...
I can tell you how each of them feel to me and what the differences are in my opinion. There are certainly differences in feel and subtle differences in how they handle. You should find the combination that is comfortable for you and your game.
All of the shafts I mention above perform well... If you take the time to learn how they handle. When it comes down to it, its very similiar to driving different race cars, and that analogy holds up well when talking about changing shafts.
If your interested in my opinion on the differences of each of the shafts I mentioned above, I can give them to you. In essense, I would recommend getting something that fits your individual game to make the transition as smooth as possible.
Thanks for the input Freddie. BTW, at any given moment I can be either 8andout or 1anddone even now.
I'd love to test one of these shafts. I don't get out to pool rooms much anymore, certainly not enough to walk up to someone and ask if I could hit a few balls with their cue.
These days my playing is pretty much limited to my GC at home with a half dozen or so of my old time friends. Some straight pool, or 1 hole, and that's about all.
Every once in a while there is that need in a game to really ramp up and fire a high inside english shot. These are the only shots I feel the need for conscious adjustment for CB squirt, and if these LD shafts are the real deal, I'd certainly enjoy not having to make that compensation.
LOL, I tell one of my buddies about these shafts and he says "WTF, you got the best force follow stroke in the world, waddia wanna go and mess with it for?"
It's not true of course and anything, that professes to alleviate squirt is interesting.Now, if it (as I suspect) it alleviates a goodly portion of the squirt but still has you adjusting to some degree, then of course it would seem useless to me. It's after all no more effort to adjust a little or a little more.
Example. I'm one of those guys who aligns with the inside side of the ferrule. Now on long range force follow with inside english, I make an exception. I move that parallel aiming line to the center of the shaft or even to the opposite side of the ferrule if I have to really stroke it hard.
I make em, but not having to do any of that is interesting to me. Just hard to pull the trigger on a shaft that cost more than 50 bucks.
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