1 pocket spot question

[hkwong]

i've asked everyone i know and they've told me i am incorrect, but i would like to know for sure. i was spotting a player 8-7 and he made my 8th ball as he was making his 5th ball. in my opinion its still his turn because he made a ball and still has a chance to win with the 2 balls left on the table.

everyone i have asked has agreed that since my 8th ball was made the game is over, but i argue that the player still has a chance to win due to the spot leaving a floater ball. furthermore, what if the game came down to 2 balls and my opponent made his ball and my ball in the same inning?

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Game over, I'd say. Here's from the rules under "Object of the Game" at onepocket.org.:

The first player (or team) to legally score eight balls into their own pocket wins the game, whether they pocket their game-winning ball by their own shot, or as a result of their opponent’s shot.

and this from the BCAPL rules (used at the US Open One Pocket):

5-17 End of Game
The game ends when one player or team has legally pocketed eight balls and does not
“owe” any balls. If you pocket a ball that brings your opponent’s score to eight balls, you
have lost

 

[Pushout]

That's the only way I ever heard it, if he pockets your eighth ball in your pocket if you are going to 8, you win even if he scores in his pocket at the same time. If he were to make both winning balls at the same time, I'm not sure.

 

[12squared]

i was spotting a player 8-7 and he made my 8th ball as he was making his 5th ball.

In this scenario, you win because he made your winning ball before your opponent made theirs, game over. 1-pocket is not equal innings, they do not get the opportunity to tie .

furthermore, what if the game came down to 2 balls and my opponent made his ball and my ball in the same inning?

In this scenario (assuming you mean you both need 1 ball) I believe the shooter wins, at least that has been the call when it happened once in all the years I have been playing. It would never happen in a non-handicapped event as outlined below.

Spotting less than a total of 16 balls (8-8; 9-7; 10-6, etc) has always been interesting because it would never comes down to the last ball on the table. Given your same scenario w/a spot of 9-7 would you still think the shooter had the chance to win on his inning? There would not be enough balls on the table for them to win.

Good question, though.

Dave

 

[seven_7days]

and this from the BCAPL rules (used at the US Open One Pocket):

5-17 End of Game
The game ends when one player or team has legally pocketed eight balls and does not
“owe” any balls. If you pocket a ball that brings your opponent’s score to eight balls, you have lost

Those rules don't address the "ball spot" in this situation.
What would be the ruling if the he made his BOTH his 7th ball and his opponent's 8th ball in the same shot?
Would it matter which fell FIRST?
What if it was simultaneously?
Who would make the determination?

 

[naji]

i've asked everyone i know and they've told me i am incorrect, but i would like to know for sure. i was spotting a player 8-7 and he made my 8th ball as he was making his 5th ball. in my opinion its still his turn because he made a ball and still has a chance to win with the 2 balls left on the table.

everyone i have asked has agreed that since my 8th ball was made the game is over, but i argue that the player still has a chance to win due to the spot leaving a floater ball. furthermore, what if the game came down to 2 balls and my opponent made his ball and my ball in the same inning?

Game over you got your 8 before his 7, the rules say:

The first shot to the wrong pocket in a given inning is the shooter’s responsibility, and the opponent is entitled to any balls pocketed on that first stroke. However, any other pocketed balls in the wrong pocket in the same inning are to be spotted as illegally pocketed balls.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Those rules don't address the "ball spot" in this situation.
What would be the ruling if the he made his BOTH his 7th ball and his opponent's 8th ball in the same shot?
Would it matter which fell FIRST?
What if it was simultaneously?
Who would make the determination?

Sure it does. He was spotting 8-7 and the shooter made his opponent's 8th ball on the same shot he made his 5th. Game over 8-5.

As far as the situation where the shot results in 8-7, that's a good question. :grin-square:

 

[seven_7days]

Those rules don't address the "ball spot" in this situation.
What would be the ruling if the he made his BOTH his 7th ball and his opponent's 8th ball in the same shot?
Would it matter which fell FIRST?
What if it was simultaneously?
Who would make the determination?

Sure it does. He was spotting 8-7 and the shooter made his opponent's 8th ball on the same shot he made his 5th. Game over 8-5.

As far as the situation where the shot results in 8-7, that's a good question. :grin-square:

To be more clear,I was thinking more about the "spot" situation,like say 9-7 or 11-6. Whereas the rule quoted here is specific about the 8th ball being pocketed.
Maybe there's a Balls Spotted in One Pocket rule book in existence that we could reference?

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

To be more clear,I was thinking more about the "spot" situation,like say 9-7 or 11-6. Whereas the rule quoted here is specific about the 8th ball being pocketed.
Maybe there's a Balls Spotted in One Pocket rule book in existence that we could reference?

OK, I get it - in other words the rule talks about the 8th ball rather than the "winning" ball, whatever that may be. To be honest, I don't know that the rules for any game cover handicaps or weight, but I don't think so. Of course that usually doesn't mean a weighted game can't be played by the rules.

From that standpoint it would just be my own feeling that the "8th" ball in the rules can be applied as meaning the "winning" ball in a handicapped one pocket game. But you still would have that weird question you mentioned of what happens if the winning balls for both players fall on the same shot.

Does the tie go to the runner, LOL?

 

[hkwong]

ive actually seen some games remove the ball closest to the spot when there is a floater left. i guess this is something that needs to be addressed in the beginning of the game. anyways i won the game so it never really came into play.

 

[12squared]

duplicate post, sorry.

 

[Ryansnell]

Unless he made his ball, your ball, and scratched. You win, it's your game ball. No brainer there.

 

[12squared]

To be more clear,I was thinking more about the "spot" situation,like say 9-7 or 11-6. Whereas the rule quoted here is specific about the 8th ball being pocketed.
Maybe there's a Balls Spotted in One Pocket rule book in existence that we could reference?

Any time you're playing with a spot that adds up to more than 16 total balls (i.e. 10-7; 11-7; 15-5), the player that needs the highest amount of balls spots them as they make them (after their inning) until the total balls equal 16 again. So in the case of 10-7, the player going to 10 would spot up one ball after their first scoring inning to make it 9-7, which adds up to 16 balls, just like no spot is 8-8. That way if you both need one ball their is only one ball on the table.

When there is no spot involved or the when the total number of balls are 16 or greater, the original situation of making both winning balls in the same stroke would never happen, if you needed one ball and your opponent needed one ball, there would only be one ball left. Not sure if I'm being clear, but I hope so. See my first post to get a better understanding of why the game would be over if your opponent made the your final ball while still shooting, them needing 2 more.

The only time balls are spotted after all the balls have been pocketed is when the shooter owes balls, all owed balls are spotted after the table is cleared. However I have seen people while gambling spot them one at a time, but I do not think that is the right rule, just the easiest to run out for the win .

Dave

 

[seven_7days]

OK, I get it - in other words the rule talks about the 8th ball rather than the "winning" ball, whatever that may be. To be honest, I don't know that the rules for any game cover handicaps or weight, but I don't think so. Of course that usually doesn't mean a weighted game can't be played by the rules.

From that standpoint it would just be my own feeling that the "8th" ball in the rules can be applied as the meaning "winning" ball in a handicapped one pocket game. But you still would have that weird question you mentioned of what happens if the winning balls for both players fall on the same shot.

Does the tie go to the runner, LOL?

my suggestion

Hey! if it's good enough for Congress to pass laws....

 

[Hungarian]

If you made your game ball and your opponents game ball on the same stroke of the cue it would have to result in a lose for you and a win for your opponent. I would compare it to baseball where positive offensive results such as scoring or advancing the bases don't count if out number three of that inning occurs.

 

[iusedtoberich]

If you made your game ball and your opponents game ball on the same stroke of the cue it would have to result in a lose for you and a win for your opponent. I would compare it to baseball where positive offensive results such as scoring or advancing the bases don't count if out number three of that inning occurs.

I think you have that backwards, IMO In a handicapped short count game, if the shooter makes his winning ball, and the opponent's winning ball on the same stroke, the shooter wins. I'm fairly certain this is covered in the onepocket.org rule set. I will try to find it.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Here is the rule in question explicitly stated. Full rule set link:

http://www.onepocket.org/one_pocket_pool_rules.htm

3.2 In the event that a player pockets both their own game winning ball, and their opponent’s game winning ball, both on the same legal stroke, then the shooting player wins. There are no ‘ties’, and it does not matter which ball drops first, as long as they both drop as a result of the same stroke.

 

[wayne]

Here is the rule in question explicitly stated. Full rule set link:

http://www.onepocket.org/one_pocket_pool_rules.htm

3.2 In the event that a player pockets both their own game winning ball, and their opponent’s game winning ball, both on the same legal stroke, then the shooting player wins. There are no ‘ties’, and it does not matter which ball drops first, as long as they both drop as a result of the same stroke.

I had this happen many years ago giving an 8-6 spot. My opponent had his winning ball hanging in the pocket and I needed one also but had no shot at my pocket. If I took a scratch he had an easy shot on either of the other 2 balls on the table. I fired a ball at his ball and made his winning ball but the ball I shot went on a carom directly into my pocket. There was quite a few hundreds of dollars riding on the game and there was no written rule at the time. We proceeded to ask everyone knowledgeable in the poolhall but never resolved it. We decided to call Grady Mathews and have him make the ruling. He said Shooter wins. Later I found out all of the oldtimers played shooter wins.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Here is the rule in question explicitly stated. Full rule set link:

http://www.onepocket.org/one_pocket_pool_rules.htm

3.2 In the event that a player pockets both their own game winning ball, and their opponent’s game winning ball, both on the same legal stroke, then the shooting player wins. There are no ‘ties’, and it does not matter which ball drops first, as long as they both drop as a result of the same stroke.

The fat lady has sung.

 

[naji]

If you made your game ball and your opponents game ball on the same stroke of the cue it would have to result in a lose for you and a win for your opponent. I would compare it to baseball where positive offensive results such as scoring or advancing the bases don't count if out number three of that inning occurs.

Well if say we put a rule that if opponent make last winning ball in my pocket it comes out to the spot, then he can abuse it and make it for me as safety play, say my ball is in the jaw of the pocket. So it has to be such that the system rules cannot be abused.