Where Does Pure Shotmaking Ability Come From?

mindtriplx

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi,

I asked a lot of good players about shotmaking/firepower, and where it came from, and almost every player gave me a different answer. One said it was natural ability, one said it was practice, another said it perception of the angles, someone said it was rhythm, and someone else said it was the stroke.

I'm a good well-rounded player, but I feel that my shotmaking may be one of the things that holds me back the most from breaking into the next level. What do I need to do to improve my pocketing ability?

I can practice tough shots over and over, and it helps, but if I stop doing it, I can feel my shot making falling back. Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks!
 
Hi,

I asked a lot of good players about shotmaking/firepower, and where it came from, and almost every player gave me a different answer. One said it was natural ability, one said it was practice, another said it perception of the angles, someone said it was rhythm, and someone else said it was the stroke.

I'm a good well-rounded player, but I feel that my shotmaking may be one of the things that holds me back the most from breaking into the next level. What do I need to do to improve my pocketing ability?

I can practice tough shots over and over, and it helps, but if I stop doing it, I can feel my shot making falling back. Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks!

Looking back on some of your older posts, you've had some issues with your fundamentals, such as crooking your arm under your body (as you call it, a 'chicken wing' problem). You also posted about head movement and jumping up on your shots.

Good shot-making comes from good fundamentals. Players arrive at good fundamentals differently. Some just get there naturally so they will tell you it's natural ability. Others work hard on their stroke, so they will tell you it's about stroke. It depends on the player and their experience.

I can tell you what it means to me: For me it starts with stance. If your stance is off, then you will always have trouble with ball pocketing. If you are standing in a way where you have to force your arm in a particular direction, you will have to practice constantly to keep that feel, because you are fighting your body. I suspect this is one of the things that may be happening to you.

I've seen top players fall out of their stances, and immediately their ball-pocketing suffers. I've watched them turn to aiming systems and other things to try to get back their ball pocketing skills, but eventually, those systems fail them because it wasn't the cause of their problem in the first place.

Start with your stance.
 
I can tell you what it means to me: For me it starts with stance. If your stance is off, then you will always have trouble with ball pocketing. If you are standing in a way where you have to force your arm in a particular direction, you will have to practice constantly to keep that feel, because you are fighting your body. I suspect this is one of the things that may be happening to you.

I've seen top players fall out of their stances, and immediately their ball-pocketing suffers. I've watched them turn to aiming systems and other things to try to get back their ball pocketing skills, but eventually, those systems fail them because it wasn't the cause of their problem in the first place.

Start with your stance.

Fran, this is probably one of the best posts I've read.

Thanks

John
 
Its the Stance

I want to 2nd what John said. I think Fran hit the nail right on the head, and this is why. I bought a copy of Lee Brett's "The Secret Art of Pool" a while ago. There is a section on stance. I recently got my Kenny Murrell cue back from Kenny and yesterday decided to retire my old player and go full time with the Murrell. I started shooting that long straight in shot diagonally cross table where the cue ball follows the object ball in to see if my stroke was where I think it should be. Well, I couldn't get the cue ball to follow the object ball in the pocket till I made my stance like Lee shows on his video.

Today I played a race to 5 in 8 ball and won 5-0. I played 2 races to 7 in 9 ball and won 7-1 and 7-4. I was making shots with confidence that I hoped I would make before, and all I changed was my stance.
 
I want to 2nd what John said. I think Fran hit the nail right on the head, and this is why. I bought a copy of Lee Brett's "The Secret Art of Pool" a while ago. There is a section on stance. I recently got my Kenny Murrell cue back from Kenny and yesterday decided to retire my old player and go full time with the Murrell. I started shooting that long straight in shot diagonally cross table where the cue ball follows the object ball in to see if my stroke was where I think it should be. Well, I couldn't get the cue ball to follow the object ball in the pocket till I made my stance like Lee shows on his video.

Today I played a race to 5 in 8 ball and won 5-0. I played 2 races to 7 in 9 ball and won 7-1 and 7-4. I was making shots with confidence that I hoped I would make before, and all I changed was my stance.

I bought Lee's DVD a while ago also. I cant tell you how many times I have watched it, has to be well over a dozen times. 1,2,3,4,and 5.

Great playing by the way.

John
 
Great Post Fran!

Looking back on some of your older posts, you've had some issues with your fundamentals, such as crooking your arm under your body (as you call it, a 'chicken wing' problem). You also posted about head movement and jumping up on your shots.

Good shot-making comes from good fundamentals. Players arrive at good fundamentals differently. Some just get there naturally so they will tell you it's natural ability. Others work hard on their stroke, so they will tell you it's about stroke. It depends on the player and their experience.

I can tell you what it means to me: For me it starts with stance. If your stance is off, then you will always have trouble with ball pocketing. If you are standing in a way where you have to force your arm in a particular direction, you will have to practice constantly to keep that feel, because you are fighting your body. I suspect this is one of the things that may be happening to you.

I've seen top players fall out of their stances, and immediately their ball-pocketing suffers. I've watched them turn to aiming systems and other things to try to get back their ball pocketing skills, but eventually, those systems fail them because it wasn't the cause of their problem in the first place.

Start with your stance.

For me & my shot-making challenges, I totally agree with Fran. I recently suspected this is an issue I have and am trying to figure out how to correct it.

Thanks Fran for confirming my suspicion.

Muziq
 
Disagree?

Looking back on some of your older posts, you've had some issues with your fundamentals, such as crooking your arm under your body (as you call it, a 'chicken wing' problem). You also posted about head movement and jumping up on your shots.

Good shot-making comes from good fundamentals. Players arrive at good fundamentals differently. Some just get there naturally so they will tell you it's natural ability. Others work hard on their stroke, so they will tell you it's about stroke. It depends on the player and their experience.

I can tell you what it means to me: For me it starts with stance. If your stance is off, then you will always have trouble with ball pocketing. If you are standing in a way where you have to force your arm in a particular direction, you will have to practice constantly to keep that feel, because you are fighting your body. I suspect this is one of the things that may be happening to you.

I've seen top players fall out of their stances, and immediately their ball-pocketing suffers. I've watched them turn to aiming systems and other things to try to get back their ball pocketing skills, but eventually, those systems fail them because it wasn't the cause of their problem in the first place.

Start with your stance.

I totally disagree with Fran Crimi. After all, she's a woman and no woman can beat a good man player!

Seriously, Fran's posts are always full of valuable info and well-written to boot. I consider her one of the best instructor AZers.

I agree with her on stance. I've had many students who want to ignore their body position, because they've run a few racks and think they have the mechanics down. I have a friend who plays OK and is actually improving, but his progess is clearly impeded by his lazy and varying stance. I secretly call him, "The man of a thousand stances"! Unless a new student has already developed a consistent, effective stance, it's ALWAYS what I work on first...

It gets back to one of my most popular pieces in P & B mag, which deals with "getting your game in order", in other words, "first things first".

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
Looking back on some of your older posts, you've had some issues with your fundamentals, such as crooking your arm under your body (as you call it, a 'chicken wing' problem). You also posted about head movement and jumping up on your shots.

Good shot-making comes from good fundamentals. Players arrive at good fundamentals differently. Some just get there naturally so they will tell you it's natural ability. Others work hard on their stroke, so they will tell you it's about stroke. It depends on the player and their experience.

I can tell you what it means to me: For me it starts with stance. If your stance is off, then you will always have trouble with ball pocketing. If you are standing in a way where you have to force your arm in a particular direction, you will have to practice constantly to keep that feel, because you are fighting your body. I suspect this is one of the things that may be happening to you.

I've seen top players fall out of their stances, and immediately their ball-pocketing suffers. I've watched them turn to aiming systems and other things to try to get back their ball pocketing skills, but eventually, those systems fail them because it wasn't the cause of their problem in the first place.

Start with your stance.

im not an instructor but i thought your post was excellent
1) you reviewed or remembered past problems of the poster
2) your answer was insightful ,educational ,and not among "his" choices
clearly your reponce was thru the eyes of an instructor
:thumbup:
 
Thank you Fran for your thoughtful insight. I am going to give my fundamentals and stance a thorough review.
 
I asked a lot of good players about shotmaking/firepower, and where it came from, and almost every player gave me a different answer. One said it was natural ability, one said it was practice, another said it perception of the angles, someone said it was rhythm, and someone else said it was the stroke.

This has been a contention of mine for a long time; shotmaking/firepower comes from the same place in pool as it does from anything else:

Talent + Knowledge + Practice = Better

I taught this girl one time that is legally blind without her glasses, literally tripped up the stairs to the pool room sometimes, was fairly “bird brained” and had ADD to the point that it was unbelievable. After 2 ½ years of lessons I decided that I had done about all I could for her. I taught this kid that was a junior tennis champion before he tore his rotator cuff 10 too many times and so never was able to go professional, he took 2 lessons a week from me and practiced every day, he went through my entire program in a little under 6 months.

So there isn’t anything you can do about #1; you have the intelligence, eyes, ears, bones, eye-hand coordination, legs, arms etc.. etc.. that you have and that’s that.

I'm a good well-rounded player

I wish I were, I suck

I feel that my shotmaking may be one of the things that holds me back the most from breaking into the next level.

It is not you it’s every player that has ever lived, the only difference is if they know it or not.

…. What do I need to do to improve my pocketing ability? ....

You can start by becoming a student of your game and not just the game as Fran said stance is a really good place to start; video yourself, you will be surprised at what you will be able to see all on your own as far as stance, stroke, PSR, idiosyncrasies, shot choice and much more, learn aiming systems and give them the time and attention they deserve.

People hate to make major changes their general approach they have to the game, they are comfortable with “the way they do it”. They would much rather “keep what they have” and just make improvements to “what they already do and what they already know” Keep an open mind to anything that may help you. If it turns out that aiming systems aren’t for you that’s fine but try all that are available to you before you make that determination. I know 10 different aiming systems and don’t use any of them anymore but the way I aim balls is my own conglomeration of the base knowledge of them all. If you are a “good well rounded player” as you say then you already know how important focus & concentration are but I still suggest reading the Dave Sapolis articles until you have all but memorized them.

Pool is like anything else the better you get the harder it becomes to get to the next level; but “trying” to get to the next level rarely does anything but get you frustrated and that leads to negativity and that is always bad.
My suggestion for getting to the next level is focusing on your mechanics as deeply as you can, might sound simple but this works for most people.

I can practice tough shots over and over, and it helps, but if I stop doing it, I can feel my shot making falling back. Any suggestions would be great.

Going a practicing that shot that you missed 100x is soothing and good for you; so is just setting up the same “tough shot” over and over again, as Bruce Lee said “I fear a man that has practiced 1 kick 10,000x more than I fear the man that has practiced 10,000 kicks 1x; but it is not a substitute for structured practice; drills are a big key to the game. And I have a standard answer to those who say “I hate drills” and when someone says that my answer is “what do you want to play for?”, good luck and please give us a repost on your progress, I would like to hear back from you in 3-6 months.
 
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I totally disagree with Fran Crimi. After all, she's a woman and no woman can beat a good man player!

Seriously, Fran's posts are always full of valuable info and well-written to boot. I consider her one of the best instructor AZers.

I agree with her on stance. I've had many students who want to ignore their body position, because they've run a few racks and think they have the mechanics down. I have a friend who plays OK and is actually improving, but his progess is clearly impeded by his lazy and varying stance. I secretly call him, "The man of a thousand stances"! Unless a new student has already developed a consistent, effective stance, it's ALWAYS what I work on first...

It gets back to one of my most popular pieces in P & B mag, which deals with "getting your game in order", in other words, "first things first".

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor

Wow- strong tobacco......
without starting a discussion about this-- but if oyu perhaps are talking about the professional top players. Here i could give you *a ok*. But imo nowadays there are some women who are for sure able to compete also with strong guys.

but everyone has his own opinion.

lg from overseas,
Ingo
 
Wow- strong tobacco......
without starting a discussion about this-- but if oyu perhaps are talking about the professional top players. Here i could give you *a ok*. But imo nowadays there are some women who are for sure able to compete also with strong guys.

but everyone has his own opinion.

lg from overseas,
Ingo

I think he was just making a joke, Ingo. That's the way I took it.
 
I think he was just making a joke, Ingo. That's the way I took it.

"Hmm... no, I disagree, Fran. In fact, I think Donny was explicitly calling you out and belittling you!"

-Sean <-- "Food fiiighhht !!!" :D
 
I personally like how Fran doesn't get brain-locked to a particular style and offers multiple solutions and approaches for any one problem - even if they're unorthodox or considered heresy by other instructors. I like that--- someone who creates their own path with fresh ideas and concepts.

She's def one of the best instructors on AZB.
 
I personally like how Fran doesn't get brain-locked to a particular style and offers multiple solutions and approaches for any one problem - even if they're unorthodox or considered heresy by other instructors. I like that--- someone who creates their own path with fresh ideas and concepts.

She's def one of the best instructors on AZB.

Agreed -- and she's got a razor-sharp wit and sense of humor to boot!

-Sean
 
I personally like how Fran doesn't get brain-locked to a particular style and offers multiple solutions and approaches for any one problem - even if they're unorthodox or considered heresy by other instructors. I like that--- someone who creates their own path with fresh ideas and concepts.

She's def one of the best instructors on AZB.

She definitely diagnoses the patient before prescribing treatment. A good thing!
 
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